Episode #23: Melissa Bruner

Melissa Bruner has been the Director of Basketball Operations for the Florida State Women's Basketball team (NCAA D1) for 19 years after serving as the Assistant Director of Athletics and Head Women's Basketball Coach at Coe College for 4 years.

In addition to her basketball duties with the program, Bruner wrapped up her 17th season working as the color analyst for the radio broadcast of all FSU women’s basketball games in the 2023-24 season. She is often on FSU’s ACC Network Extra broadcasts alongside various play-by-play commentators.

We had a great conversation about the impact Caitlin Clark and Angle Reese are having on the WNBA and how women's basketball is getting its long overdue exposure and respect.  Enjoy!

Learn more about Melissa Bruner here:  https://seminoles.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster/coaches/melissa-bruner/178

Transcript

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On this episode of the significant coaching podcast, I sat down with my good friend of 30 years, coach Melissa Bruner, director of operations for the Florida state women's basketball team and a very talented color analyst for the Florida state athletics network and the ACC network. We had a great conversation on the impact. Katelyn Clark and angel Reese are having on the w MBA and the much deserved attention that league and players are now getting because of these two young all-stars on the rise. Without further ado. Here's Melissa Bruner. Enjoy. Melissa Bruner, it is so great to see you and we've known each other now for how many years or what are we at 30 some years that we've known each other. Gosh, that's scary. But yes, I think that sounds about right. Crazy. And, you know, when you're a college freshman, like I was at co to have an, to have an upperclassmen and I, and I'm saying this is a lesson to all those kids that are listening. All those kids that are juniors and seniors right now in high school and those kids that are going to college or in college, it was so great for me to have somebody like you, who was a couple of years older than me, you, you always treated me like an equal and, and I'm from the beginning of our friendship. I, I, we always laughed. And we always were able to talk whatever we wanted to talk about hoops or school or how much we wanted to strangle our coaches, you know, you were always there. So that is my memory of you from 30 years ago. Well, I appreciate that. I hope that you know, that people will Take away a little bit of that. I mean, I had great mentors as well. When I remember my first week as a freshman, I go college walking in and having some upperclassmen take me under their wing and really mentor me. And I hope you know, again, along the way in the coaching business, I've had some amazing. Women mentors as well that you know, have guided me. And if I can give a little bit back along the way, then then I've done my part. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I find myself talking to student athletes about that more than anything, how important that role is, you know, don't just look at it as young people, as competition, look at them as. As, as a part of your legacy, you know, how you treat them is how they're going to treat others for the rest of their life. And, and if you're a basketball player, a hockey player, a baseball, football player, if you can take those young guys and gals under your wing and show them how to do it the right way, your legacy is going to be even greater. Do you, do you find that as important? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, it's about how you make other people feel, you know, like I want other people to feel valued when I talk to them, I want them to feel. Encouraged. I hope when that, when I meet with them and I'm sure I, I fall short of that on occasion, maybe more often than not, but that's, I love that. I love that about sports is the opportunity to give back and to impact others. Through this game and a little round ball that you throw into a hoop. You know, that that's why I've done this. That's why I wanted to be a part of something like this. You get to be a part of something bigger than yourself and you can, you know, inspire and encourage other people through the process of it and watch their growth. I love that more than anything. With our program is, is seeing our student athletes grow. And honestly, I've seen our head coach grow. She came in here you know, as a, a first year assistant coach had never done any coaching and played professional basketball for 10 or 12 years had been a star at the collegiate level. And then, you know, went on to the WNBA, but when she came in here to coach. This was her first gig and to watch her grow and flourish and 12 years later, you know, take over and run this program and me have the opportunity to work for her. It's been amazing, but it's always for me been about the people and about those relationships and giving back. And that's, that's why I do this. That's fantastic. And it's a great transition. What I want to talk about next. I want to talk about the state of the women's game because it, I find myself and there, there's no joke in this and no, I'm not trying to be anything but honest here. I find myself. If there's an NBA game on or a WNBA game on, I find myself, what I clicking on the women's game. If there's a tennis match, French open, I find myself watching the women more than the men. And, and, and I'm finding that there's a competitiveness now on the women's side and a talent level that's unmistakable. And with that, We're seeing these great young gals going into the Dunby NBA right now, Caitlin Clark and Brink and Reese, and you got to see these, a lot of these girls firsthand at Florida State. What has changed? What, what is the dynamic of what these girls have done? These young women? What, what is, how has it changed the game and how our world is starting to look at the women's game? Yeah, again, I, there's so much talent and there always has been talent in the women's game, but I think you're finally seeing a little more exposure on the national level in terms of you know, games are on ABC. Now they're on CBS, they're on ESPN platforms. You're not having to do, you know, a streaming or, you know, a ESPN, you or the ACC network or SCC. Now these are on major platforms that everybody can get. And people are watching and going, wow, this is, this is really good basketball. And I think it's been that way for a while, but I think people are finally now watching and taking notice. And, you know, players like Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese and Cameron Brink have drawn the attention of these kind of casual fans. And it's been exciting. It's been fun to be a part of. And I hope that continues. I think you're also seeing sponsors get involved and want to put their money behind these amazing women athletes. Not just in basketball and in sports like tennis and volleyball and softball, you know they're getting the opportunity to be. In the limelight and be that that main endorser. And that's fun. That's exciting for, for all these young women to have these opportunities, it adds some pressure. And I can't imagine that the pressure that, that Caitlin Clark is under. I was thinking about that the other day. You know, we have a player here in our program at Florida state named Tanaya Latson, who it was the freshman of the year in the entire country. Two years ago and just, you know, we've, we've watched her and helped her with some of those pressures, but you know, the pressure that a player like Caitlin Clark is under all these eyes watching you. And while it's exciting and fun, it also adds, you know, a different level of stress than, than you and I had with you know, 50 people coming to a co college game. So you know, it's, it's really cool to see, it's fun to be a part of and it's exciting and I can't wait to see, you know, where this takes the game of women's basketball. I want to go back to what we were talking about earlier about being mentors, and I'm, I'm, I'm concerned when I with Caitlin as big as her name is as quickly as she's blown up in our country and our lexicon. I'm concerned about. What I'm seeing her peers handle that success And I'm sure it's different in what's actually happening and what the media is presenting But are you seeing that the older? Women in the wmba are you seeing them? Take this for what it is. This is great because we're getting great attention. Are you seeing it as? There's some pushback here because this kid hasn't earned, you know, her and Reese and break, they haven't earned their right to, to make all this money yet, and b, to be or what, what do you see when you look at this? Yeah, I honestly don't know. We've had that debate here amongst some of my colleagues here at Florida State. You know about like. Is there that jealousy? Like, is it a, you know, wow, I didn't get that when I was a rookie. Or is it like, wow, this is great for our game. And now all these players, you know, are getting even more attention than they got because of you know, a player like Caitlin Clark, who the nation wants to, to get behind. You know, it, it's interesting and I don't know, I am not in those locker rooms. I don't know. I know what. You see on social media, but I don't believe that always for what what that really is that you know I think sometimes the the media wants to create this antagonist relationship between People to try to get more clicks or more views So I can't honestly and honestly answer that because I don't know what it's like in the locker room. I hope there's not jealousy I mean, it's it's It's a natural human reaction, but I hope that's not the case. I hope that, you know, everybody can see, wow, this is, this is good for the growth of our game. And, you know, we're going to, we're going to take advantage of it and use it for what it's worth and, and help us in our own mission and. You know, again, if more people are watching the WNBA this summer than ever before, I don't see how that isn't a positive for anyone that's involved in the game of women's basketball. So again, I think that is the case. It sure seems like that. I know I've watched a lot more games this summer already than, you know, maybe I have in the past. I, I don't know what it's like. I hope that there's not that jealousy and that the undermining not wanting to have individual players succeed. You know, I expect that they would bring their best every time. And people have talked a lot about the physicality of the game. And is, are people being more physical? Honestly, I don't think they are. I think that people, women's basketball is a physical game. Yes. Like it an at the WNBA level that it gets rough. Yeah. So, you know, the fact that people are, you know, thinking maybe Caitlyn's being. Laid in a different way. I'm not sure if that's the case or if that's really just Look, we're, we're showing you what we got, and this is, you know, this is how we play. We're we're competing. Yeah. And, and it's fun. It's fun to watch. Well, I, I was really blessed to be able to coach the women's game for a number of years and you know, as you're talking about that, I remember I used to step in, you know, this was when I was much younger in my back and my. Knees could actually do this. I'd step in and I'd scrimmage with my girls at Laverne. And when, as you were talking about, I remember Christina Kitty, one of my seniors, I'm coming off of, you know, chasing one of the guards and I'm coming off and, and she just hits me on a blind screen and just lays me out. And I felt like I hit a wall and Christina was only five 11, maybe, you know, maybe five 10 and she just laid me out. And I just remember looking up and she's just looking at me and go, keep coming coach, you're going to get it every time, you know, and that's, that was my team's mentality. And when you watch women's basketball, if you're really paying attention, it's brutal, it's physical and every screen and everything. So I love that. I love that part of the game. Now with that, do you think. This is, this is similar to what you and I grew up with when Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were coming into the NBA was a mess in the late 70s and early 80s and they kind of You know, they kind of came in and all the attention was on them. As 23, 24 year olds, you know, can you see these young gals changing the game, the WNBA game, the way magic and bird did 40 years ago, I think that's possible, you know, is, is Caitlin Clark able to be the Michael Jordan that the NBA had of the, wow, everybody wants to go see this franchise player. You know, I don't know, I don't want to put that on her. I don't want to put that on, on any of them, but again, I love the, the attention that that the women's game is getting, and I hope it can stand on its own for what it's worth. And I hope these players, you know, really do appreciate the opportunities that they're having to, to be in the national spotlight. And, you know, and our, our good representatives and good citizens to, you know, To help young, more young girls want to grow up and be like Caitlin or Angel or Cameron or, you know, Asia Wilson is, you know, like probably the best player that nobody's talking about right now. Like, can we, can we give her a little bit of love? Like she's amazing. You know, and yeah, if anybody's Michael Jordan, it's, it's Asia Wilson. Yeah, I get it. I just, I, I, I see so much similarities. It's, it's for me, I know people put a lot of attention on Caitlin and, and then there's Angel, but to me, I see both of them really changing what's going to happen the next 10 years, because they've played against each other in college like magic and bird. There's that black and white great white player great black player, so that you know how it's affecting the culture and how everybody's looking at it. And I think the combination of those two. And how they play the game and how aggressive they are and how competitive they are. I really love that. I that's to me, that's the story as much as anything. And, and, and I, you know, I just remember 40 years ago, how impactful that was to our world to see these, this black guy and this white guy, they were competitive as all get out, but then there was that respect, you know, that they had that respect for each other. And I hope that comes out of this. I hope those two realize how impactful they can be to each other. You know what I mean? Yeah, I I think they do it appears that they actually have a pretty amicable relationship But I I don't know. I don't know either one of them personally. I don't want to you know, assume anything that i've read or seen but yeah, I mean and I hope honestly that it that it brings us together and that we We don't have to look at, you know, Caitlin is white and Angel is black. Like I hope we look at them as amazing basketball players and we can, you know, we can again, get more viewers and more excitement around the women's game. It helps us all. Yeah. Yeah. It's just it's cool for me. I, you know, I want to see them as, as peers. I want to see them as, as human beings doing something really, really well. And that's, that's what's cool for me. I want, I want to shift a little bit because, you know, you've been at Florida State now 17 years? Yeah, 18. 18 years. So you've seen, you've seen the NCAA go through amazing changes in, in, in everything. I want to talk to you a little bit about what you're seeing with, with the NIL and with the portal. What are the things that you think, because I keep having these conversations, it feels like everybody asks me questions. It's always negative about the portal. It's always negative about the NIL. What are you seeing as the positives about both of those? Well, again, the portal allows student athletes to find the right fit for them. And if they have Chosen poorly in the first round, it gives them an opportunity to find something that's a better fit. Now, is it challenging and difficult? Absolutely. But I mean, in the end, I want our student athletes to be happy and to flourish and to grow and develop as, as powerful, beautiful, young women of character and. So I hope that, you know, we had a couple of that transferred out this year and, and one of them, you know, hugged me, came and took pictures before she left, because it just, this. She wasn't going to get the minutes that she wanted this year. And, you know, we have real honest conversations with our students and, you know, she came in and I, I know, because, you know, it was shared with me from our head coach, I wasn't in the meeting, but, you know, she wanted to play more. She wanted a more significant role. She wanted to be more impactful. And quite honestly, she probably wasn't going to have that opportunity. And I credit Brooke a lot for, for having the real conversation and saying like, look, Next year, you're probably, your role is not going to significantly increase. And if that is truly what it is that will make you happy, you know, I understand, and we want you back. We're not trying to get rid of you. We want you here. We want you to stay with us and develop, but. You know, if you want immediate impact, which is what most people want these days, they expect it and want it you know, then there's other opportunities out there. And if you want to go explore those, feel free. And so you know, we've had that from, from a number of student advocates. We had it before the transfer portal was, was available. I can think back to about 10 years ago where there's a young lady from the state of Pennsylvania that came down here. And kind of had the same thing. I ended up transferring back and going to school at Duquesne. It was closer to home. It was probably more of the level that she could excel at. She wasn't going to excel at Forest State. She was going to be a great player and an amazing human being. And I've kept in contact with her. She was still in the business until a couple of years ago. And then I guess got smart and got out of this crazy college athletics business. But you know, like. Transfers happen and people transfer for different reasons, and if they do it the right way and for the right reasons, the transfer portal is not a bad thing. If, if you're doing it for the wrong reasons, if people aren't being transparent, if it's truly transactional and not relational you know, then I think the, the transfer portal has a lot of negativity to it. But. You know, we've, we've always had some transfers in our program. We've had players transfer out. Now that it's this immediate eligibility that changes things a little bit. But it is what it is. We have to adapt. That's what that's what we do in this business. I mean, you talk about 18 years ago, you know, they didn't get cost of attendance. They didn't have the opportunity to transfer without a penalty. You know, now they have the N. I. L. Opportunities as well. I mean, it has changed drastically and it continues to change. It's going to change again in 25 when these student athletes get a portion of revenue sharing, you know, at this level. It's going to change again if the lawsuit goes through where they're, where they're considered employees or where they can unionize, like, so you have to, in this business, continue to adapt and grow and change, and I don't have to like all of it, but it is what it is. And again, if we're, if we're in it for the right reasons, we're in it to help student athletes achieve their goals and dreams, and you keep those things in the forefront, then you adapt and grow. And that's the only choice you have, in my opinion. I love it. I love it. Yeah, I one of my one of my clients came to me wanting to transfer. And the first thing we did is we really talked about why you wanted to transfer. What was what was the reason? What was the purpose of transferring? And at the end, it came down to the young lady you just you referred to, who's going to be a sophomore, playing time wasn't going to get any better. And he couldn't imagine sitting again. And not being able to be an impact player and his coach was like your coach said, listen, we really love you. We want you here, but we totally understand if you want to go somewhere where you can play right away and have a chance to really be an impact, we'll support you on that. And he was great. The coach was great about it. And we were able to create that message. So when he was talking to the other coaches about transferring, I had college coaches come back to me and say, Matt. We really like him and what we really, not only do, we like his ability and his character, but we love the fact that he openly told us. I feel like I'm transferring for the right reasons. I love my teammates, love my coach, love the experience, love the education, but I wanna play and I'm looking for some place where I can have everything. And I didn't have that mindset when I was coming outta high school. You know, I, and, and I think college coaches have really appreciated that thought process that, hey, you thought about this transfer. You're not just looking for money. You're not just looking to start. You want, you want to be able to have that full college experience. So I, I love that that's happening at your guys level as much as all the other levels. It is. And that's not to say that that's every transfer. There are certainly ones who have come in and out of this program who probably transferred for the wrong reasons, or, you know, who were, who were looking for more money, they were looking for notoriety you know, whatever. And some of the work, some of that haven't, you know, like that's, that's at every level, but I mean, again, for me, My division three experience at coke college was phenomenal. It was exactly what I wanted for those four years of college and I wouldn't trade it for the world. And I'm thankful that I didn't get offered a scholarship to go somewhere else because I might not have been mature enough to to handle that. And you know, I, again, I think you have to pick a place that Is right for you for all the right reasons, and and you don't have to worry about that, that issue of transfer. And I hope that again, people have advisors in their corner, much like what you're doing, which help them understand, like, Hey, why is it that you want to leave? Like, is it just because you're mad for, you know, that you didn't get an extra two points a game or five minutes a game? You know? Well, you know, is there an opportunity? Did you graduate players on your team that now you can grow into that? Are you capable of growing into that? Or, you know, is there a, a misfit there? At the, at the level you're at? I think, you know, again, a lot of times people in the process are searching for, you know, the scholarship money or the NIL deal. And they, they forget to look at the relationship piece, if that's important, which I hope it is, it is in our program. But you know, what's your relationship like with the head coach, with the staff? You know, are they going to be people that you want to be around, you know, on your bad days, after a loss you know, are they, do they care about you as an individual and, you know, we, we, this program here at Florida State has always been built. Anybody that's ever been here knows that we talk about person, student, athlete, it's in that order we used to have a big triangle in our locker room that had. There was on each, each side and we talked about the athlete was always the last piece. The, the person is always going to be the most important. And what is that experience like for you as a young woman to grow and develop not just on the basketball court, but in life. And I hope that the people that have been through this program and have been a part of it. You know, appreciate that and know that that's been their, their value as a human, as always taking precedence as what, what we make our decisions on. And then the next was, you know, their student athlete wellbeing and student being the next piece. So that, you know, they were here to get a degree and that will still always be the case. We want them to graduate. We will let them major in anything they want. And again, that's not always the case. Sometimes that's getting more and more rare, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Where you get into a situation that goes like, yeah, no you, we don't do nursing majors here because that's too hard of a major. We've got two players right now that want to study engineering and are studying engineering and one that just transferred in and You know, we have an amazing collaborative engineering program with Florida A& M here. And, you know, she wanted to be a part of that and great, and we're going to make it work. And if that means that two days a week, we got to reschedule practice or we have to, you know, find a way to, you know, do something a little different, think outside the box, take a different day off because you've got a lab, you know, like. That's why we're doing it. And that's, you know, that's always been the way we see it. And I hope that, you know, people come for the right reasons and find that fit because that may not be for everybody. There may be other student. I know there's other student athletes. We lost players in the transfer portal this year that wanted money. And we didn't have The dollar figure that they wanted, or we didn't tell them they could start. And that's just, that's not who we are and we're going to be competitive. Don't get me wrong, you know, but we're going to do it the right way and for the right reasons. And I think that the young women in our program understand that. And the staff here that Brooke has assembled values that. And again, it's why I love being a part of it. What do we teach the parents of these kids coming out of high school to get them to understand that if you come in and compete and you earn your opportunity, the money's going to come. Yeah. The the NIL money's going to come. How do we get them to buy into that? Wow. That's a, that's a great question. And I don't know that you can, I think it's going to come from, you know, again, finding parents who understand the total picture, who really get. All of the pieces they truly want their son or daughter to to be happy and to be healthy And to succeed at whatever it is. They're doing it and knowing that like Basketball is just a piece of their college experience or football or swimming or track or whatever sport it is like that's such a small part and really it is so fleeting, you know, even our best players don't play basketball for that long and there's so much more that they have after basketball or whatever sport. And so let's let's take a look at the total picture, not just the dollar signs. Or the points per game or minutes per game and, and that's hard, but I mean, that's, that's really the, the lesson in it all is, can we look at the, at the big picture and, and really see beyond, Hey, this is just. one piece of their college experience or their life experiences, that's going to lead to something even better down the road. That's right. Yeah. I've got one of my clients is a division one prospect for football right now, and he's got, he's going to have big 10 offers, big 12 offers. He's already, you know, and, and I've told him from the beginning, you need to be different. You need to be a different prospect. You know, if somebody is going to give you a free 200, 000 education, that is your number one goal, get that education, get, get somebody to pay for that for you. Now, once you have that go in and tear it up, be the hardest worker in the classroom, be the hardest worker in the weight room. Every time you're on that field, play with more effort than everybody else. I guarantee you that that additional income, that revenue is going to come with it. If, if your effort is there, because people are going to appreciate it. Absolutely, you know, totally believe you. I think that's great advice. And again, you know, just because one school is going to come in and offer him a bigger NIL deal than the other doesn't mean that's the right fit. And I think that's so great. What you're doing is, is fantastic. Like, there's got to be more people out there like you that, you know, You know, can help advise and be a little more of a neutral observer and not be so emotionally involved. You know, you care about these kids, they're your clients, you're going to help them to, to make the best decisions, but you can do it in a very logical and methodical way, as opposed to getting so wrapped into the, to the hype and, and the, and the financial piece of it, which is exciting. That's exciting for a lot of families. This is going to be. A difference maker, my son or daughter is going to get offered hundreds of thousands of dollars and it can change, you know, the trajectory of our family. I love that, but you know, again, like what is, at what cost is that? And, you know, do you want to, do you want to sacrifice. You know, happiness and a really good fit for the extra dollars in the short term. That money is fleeting, but it is the education, the experience, the knowledge you take from playing at that, at the college level that never leaves you, you have that forever. But if, if the money's the only thing you're after and you tear your ACL your junior year, you don't get drafted or, you know, all of a sudden, what do you have? What do you have left? So I'm really curious of this because again, I work with so many high school kids that are transitioning to college. What are some of the biggest lessons, Melissa, that your freshmen are learning at Florida State in their first year? Because you, you get to see it as much as anybody. You get to see every aspect of what these kids are going through as the Director of Ops. What are you seeing from the time they walk on campus to the time that first year is over? What are the big lessons they're learning? Well, they're, they're learning how to be adults. I mean, like they're having to, and, and I fail in this sometimes because sometimes it's just so much easier to like do it for them, you know, like, and I don't, I don't have any children. I don't know if that's like that as a parent too, but it's just easier to like, Hey, let me just pour this for them or this glass of milk or, you know, do whatever when they're a kid. But like, you know, for me to have to let them fail and let them, you know, You know, handle things on their own and then step in when when needed to help them. So it's really fun for me to just watch them grow and learn how to do things for themselves. Most of these, you know, young women have had parents who've, you know, done a lot for them. Some of them haven't. We definitely have had some that have, you know, You know, I've been on their own. A couple of our international students have been on their own since they were 14 and been at, you know, like academies, basketball academies and had to figure it out. But you know, I, I think they're, they're growing in their confidence too. That's, that's a really fun thing to watch them kind of walk on campus, you know, the first couple of weeks like this. All scrunched up and hiding. Fresh off of grade. You know, they're, they're. big, tall, powerful, athletic women most of the time. And so, you know, they're, they're a little they're a little intimidating by their stature. And so they, I think by nature, they, you know, they don't want to stand out quite yet, but, you know, after a year or two, and they start to walk a little more upright and proud, and, you know, they're just confident in who they are as people and their ability to do things both on the court and off the court. That's fun for me to watch their confidence grow. And I was just telling one of our seniors this year, who I can't believe she's a senior already, like just how, how amazing that transformation has been from her freshman year when she walked on campus and, you know, was, was a little unsure of herself coming from a small town. And, you know, now just is the leader of our program and is mentoring her, her, her teammates and caring for them, you know, whereas she was needing to be cared for just a couple of years ago. So, To me juices me about, about this business. That's what's so fun is to watch them just kind of spread their wings and fly and then to see them go off and, you know, have success in the professional leagues or, you know professional careers whatever it is that they choose. A couple of, one of our players that I was closest with just had a baby, you know, like just watching her grow and now be a mom and, you know, you're holding this little bitty, you know, infant and she's recruiting because she's a coach. You know, it's just, those are really cool moments. It's so fun to, you know, to be a small part of, of that development and growth. Oh, they're, they're your babies. Absolutely. Absolutely. I can relate to that. I tell this story all the time. I had a freshman. 20 years ago, I brought him in to be our really to be our starting point. Got it. You know, he was gonna have to earn it. And he was on campus. I don't know, 48 hours. And he walked into my office. He goes, coach, you know, I really appreciate you recruiting me, but I, I, I don't think this is the right place for me. I think I'm going to go home. And I go, his name was Tim. And I said, Tim, I completely understand. it's a big change from where you're from to coming here. And I go, I understand if you're going through some things. I go, what kind of car are you driving? And he goes, he told me what kind of car and I go, I used to, I think I used to have one of those. Let me see the key. You have a special key. And he handed me his, handed me his keys. And I said, oh, that's great. And I opened up my drawer, dropped them in my drawer and I locked the drawer. And he looked at me like, I was crazy. And I go, you can have these back in two weeks if you feel the same way. And he walked out, with his head down, like I just kicked him in the butt. And he walked into my office Monday morning and I go Tim, I told you it's two weeks. We'll talk in two weeks, but I want you to have these two weeks. And he goes, no, no, no coach. We had a blast this weekend. I'm not going anywhere. You know, in just a weekend, he understood why I wanted to stay a little bit, so I very much appreciate all that you're doing with that. Tell me about the physical side of going from high school to college basketball, especially high school, the division one, a lot of these girls are playing high level IAU. So they're seeing a lot of the same talent. What do you wish when you guys talk as a staff, What do you wish they were doing from March to August before they get on campus or whenever they come in as a freshman? What do you wish they were doing physically to be better prepared for what you're going to do to them? Sure. I think, you know, getting in the weight room with a trainer who knows how to train basketball athletes is huge, or to have that resource of somebody that can help them get stronger physically because I don't think most high school student athletes spend a lot of time in the weight room and the really elite basketball players spend a lot of time on the basketball court, which is great. And you know, obviously they're in there honing their game and they might hire a basketball trainer. But for them to spend some time in the weight room and really work on their individual bodies, it is, it, you are absolutely right. The jump from high school to division one, elite division one level is huge in terms of the physicality of it. And it's something that they really can't be prepared for the intensity of it as well. Just even one of our transfers that was coming from a pretty high level Juco was just had her first workout yesterday and I was asking her about that. And she was like, I think I can just see how much more intense this is like, and this is just practice. And so, you know, that jump from that level, let alone the high school level, it's, it's significant. And it's not that it can't be overcome, but the, the wear and tear on their bodies is, is, you know, Pretty substantial. And again, we're, we're blessed here that we've got a phenomenal strength coach who's been in this business for a long time and can get them prepared. And that's why we bring them in, in July, honestly you know, late June, early July, so that they're here in the summertime to be able to have some of that individual strength training to help get them ready for the grind of the season because basketball is a long season, you know, you're talking, we start, I mean, we're going to start workouts in September, but the real practices now start. The last week of September and you know, we're playing all the way through hopefully till the end of March. So with really very, you know, with three days off at Christmas maybe four or five, if they're lucky. So if they're lucky, that's, that's a lot for. It's a lot on a body and just learning how to take care of your body to even just things like it is important to rest. So, you know, you do need to take days off and you need to work on recovery days and, you know, getting in a cold tub or using, you know, some game readies or norma techs or whatever to try to. Flush some of the inflammation out of your bodies and eating right and using, you know, nutritionists and things like that. You know, anything that you can do to give yourself a head start at the, at the high school level certainly helps at any level, regardless of if they're coming to play at a place like Florida state, or if they're going to play at a D3 school like co, like it's a jump and anything you can do to prepare your body. Not necessarily your basketball skills, obviously that's important too, but just preparing your body for that. and doing everything you can to put yourself in the best position to have some success early on. And then I think, you know, tempering your expectations as a freshman too, you know, it is hard to come in and be an impact player as a freshman. At any level in any sport, like it's just such a big jump and yes, can people do it, but, you know, temper those expectations a little bit of like, just because you were the big dog in in high school, doesn't mean you're automatically stepping on campus. And now you're playing with 12 other people who were the big dogs at their school too. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, going back to Caitlin Clark, you watch her play right now and you're like, she looks like a little girl out there size wise. Because the WNBA women and they're, they're ripped. And, and they've been in the league, you know, she's playing as players who've been in the league for five and 10 years, man. So, I mean, yeah, you were absolutely right. Like these are, these are women who have experience and nothing against Caitlin, but, you know, like, and they've been doing this year round full time. And they understand the importance of it. So yeah, that's great. Yeah. And she's, she's, she's even here and just about every other interview that she does, you know, I can't wait for that Olympic break. Cause I'm, I need rest and I need the weight room. I need, I can't imagine how much rest she needs, like to think of the grind of the college season and then to jump right in, really, she had less than a month off before she was in training camp for a week and then playing games. And then, you know, they had a brutal schedule to start. So yeah. Yeah, it's it's a terrible disadvantage for a rookie in the WNBA if they've had a nice run in the college, because I mean, you've got no time to get that break, get your body healthy, get yourself emotionally prepared for what you're about to go into. So it's pretty amazing what these, these young women are doing that have that are going into the league, you know, Sabrina, what she did as a rookie and what she's done. But, you know, I keep, I keep showing pictures of, to my basketball kids, the pictures of Seth Curry at 22 and what he looks like now, you know, it's like, it's a different human being. It's looked like, it looks like the guy now ate that kid because he was, you know, he was, he was this, this skinny. And now he's just, he looks skinny on a, on a, on the TV, but he's just ripped. He's huge. So I think that's really cool. And I think that's really good advice. I want to talk a little bit about your job because you've been a director of ops at the vision one level for 18 years. Talk a little bit about I wish in my career I had a director of ops because it is the hardest part about being a head coach is the, is the intricacies. everything that's happening off the court you deal with. It's yours. So talk a little bit about what that job entails and especially what it entails at the division one level. Sure. You know, you're absolutely right. And I think first of all, that my experience as a head coach Back at code for those four years really helped me to be even better at this job because I do understand while it was at a, a smaller level, I get it, but I understand what it was like to manage a program and to try to handle all the details that go around that. And so. For me now to be able to take some of that off of our head coaches plate and the assistant coaches plate as well to be able to you know, do scheduling to do all of the travel to handle equipment to work with compliance to be the academic, you know, point of contact to handle the budget. You know, all those sorts of things that, you know, Brooke, our head coach now doesn't have to worry about. Like, I hope she doesn't have to worry about it. If I'm doing my job well, she doesn't worry about it. I don't think she does. And so then she really can spend her energy on recruiting the best student athletes and developing the best student athletes while they're here. And, and again, those, yes, she has many other things and she has to, to keep an eye out for everything, but I'm hoping that if I'm doing my job well, that nothing falls through the cracks, and she doesn't have to worry as much about the details. I can handle what I call the weeds, and she can stay out of the weeds and deal with what is most important in our program, which is our student athletes. What does travel alone look like at that level for you? That's gotta be just a maddening experience because how many do you, how many people do you guys travel with? We travel somewhere between 30 and 35 typically. So you have 12 student athletes and the rest are staff. So you have to travel them, house them, feed them, house them, feed them, right? Move them, move them from the Right. What is, what does that preparation look like? Because how often do you guys fly a year? We, we fly everywhere. We charter planes pretty much everywhere we go. We're, we're really fortunate here. And most you know, power five schools are like that. So yeah, no, it's, it's meals, it's hotels, it's buses, it's planes, it's rental cars along the way. It's, you know, scheduling opposing team or visiting team practices. It's, it's all encompassing and it starts like, honestly, now I just had a call yesterday where we're playing a tournament in the Virgin Islands and had a logistics call already with the tournament organizers there just figuring out, okay, who needs passports? What do we need, you know, from that standpoint for paperwork to even just get in the country and then we'll start a bid process for the charter flights and then the communication with them. I mean. Sending manifests and communicating an itinerary and uploading it to a platform we use called Teamworks that, you know, keeps everybody on the same page and it takes a whole group of people. We've got a number of other people on our staff that are helping with some of those logistics as well, but I mean, it really during the season, that's the bulk of, of what I do is, is travel and. equipment scheduling, you know, making sure everybody's moving in the same direction at the same time. Yeah. I remember even as a D three and D two coach, if let's say we were going to play in Memphis, I would, if we had any kids in that area, we were recruiting, I would. I would get a rental car or I would leave early and my assistants would bring the team down and I'd go, you know, go watch a high school game or go to a home visit. Are you handling all that too for the staff as well? Not as much. We have a director of recruiting that handles most of the recruiting travel. If it involves them doing it while they're while we're in team travel mode, then I, I'll, I'll step in and assist. Yes. So, you know, if. There are a lot of times they might be like, we travel typically on a Wednesday to play on Thursday and then Saturdays to play on Sundays. And so if they're recruiting say on a Friday night and they can't get back in time for, to catch the team plane on Saturday, because we're leaving early. You know, then I might jump in and help with some of their logistics, but most of the time, the recruiting travel, I'm fortunate that that is done by somebody else on our staff, but a lot of directors of ops do handle the recruiting travel piece as well. I mean, I think I could have a career as a travel agent after this, if I wanted it, definitely have handled a lot and have a lot of experience with charter flights and missed planes and rental cars and bus. Issues so yeah, definitely understand the travel business quite well after all these years How many times have you guys taken the team overseas? Oh gosh. At least four here since i've been at florida state. We just last summer went to greece and croatia And yeah, I helped plan all of that again with a really good Logistics company that did a lot of the you know in country stuff But yeah, I was working that was the majority of my summer last year was You Was getting that all planned and organized and making sure, again, everybody had the right passports and, you know, that we had everything we needed to be able to compete over there as well as have an amazing educational experience. That's, that's one of my favorite things to do is, is take players out of the country and we call it education in 3d. You know, you learn a lot about the world through travel. So I love the fact that we can, we can do that and, and really open some eyes to what else is out there besides. Tallahassee, Florida. That's great. I wanna dive into your, color analysts work for the a CC network with, with FSU games. Mm-Hmm. What is that, what has that experience been like for you? Being able to call Division one games and, and be able to do it on the radio and to me, I, I, I love that. I mean, it technically is not part of my real job, I call it. Right. But I love that that might be one of the favorite things that I do is. is have the opportunity to broadcast some games and just talk about basketball. Tell the stories of our team, explain to fans what's going on, maybe provide a little basketball knowledge. I don't know how many nuggets I'm dropping of basketball wisdom, but yeah, just explaining explaining the story, telling the story. It's been, it's been a, a I got to do a men's game a couple of years ago as well. Our men's team needed, needed to fill in. So did ACC Network extra game for our men's team. And you know, the preparation that goes into that, I don't think a lot of people realize how much broadcasters have to prepare. You don't just show up and talk about the game. Like you are spending hours. Reading sports information, notes, doing your own research, using websites, watching film. I mean, I, I find myself, I go to our film sessions and watch film and sometimes I'll watch film on my own or go back and watch a game, you know, to, to see kind of tendencies of other teams and what are their strategies. And then you're interviewing coaches ahead of time to talk through, you know, okay, how are you going to defend her? What are you going to do in this situation? A lot of times coaches don't want to give up their secrets, which is totally fine. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of preparation that goes into it. I just kind of fell into it. It was something that one of our sports information directors previously, many years ago was like, Hey, you coach, you know, basketball, can you, can you step in and do this? And I was extremely hesitant at first. And while I'm so thankful that she kind of gave me the nudge and the guy that was doing play, play on the radio at the time kind of mentored me and, and showed me the ropes. And then it morphed into, you know, when the. EFPN3 broadcasts kind of came about and ACC network came about. They were like, well, you already do radio. How about you do some, some TV for us? And so, yeah, it's really fun. And let's, let's me be involved in a little different way with the game of basketball, but also be able to talk about our team. You know, it's, it's really fun when we're playing well and winning and winning big games. When we're playing poorly and losing, it is awful because I feel the pain. Of my day job and you know, I know what they're supposed to be doing or how we were supposed to be defending a screen and roll or what we were, you know, what was drawn up. For a particular play and we don't execute. And that, that hurts and it hurts to have to, you know, selfishly, I don't want to talk nicely about all these other programs, but I want to talk great about Florida state, right? I mean, let's be real. Like, I don't want to talk about how good North Carolina or Louisville or Notre Dame are. Like, I really want to talk about Florida state, but I try to be as unbiased as I, as I can be. And I think I am for the most part, radio allows you a little more flexibility to Be a little bit more of a Homer and, and talk more about your own team because it's, it's paid for and sponsored by, you know, the Seminole sports network. Whereas the other ones are, are definitely a more neutral broadcast and we try to keep it incredibly professional. And honestly, I hope that people that watch those broadcasts have no idea that I'm the director of operations here at Florida state. That's a goal in the end that they just think I'm somebody out there calling games and yeah, who knows? Maybe I'll I'll do Some national TV games someday down the road. Oh, I love that. I'm so envious of that, Mel. I really am. I, I, I love your whole career and what you've been able to do, but that's the part I, you know, I cannot wait to listen and watch you call games. I, that's, I, and I feel so bad that I didn't know you, you've been doing it. So I'm, I'm really excited to, I there are archives. You can, you can go back and find the club. I, I'll, I'll, for sure. I've to. Don't waste your time. I'm pretty sure you've got better things to do with your time, Matt. No, no, no. I want, I want to hear you call games. I can't wait. It's a joy. I, I don't know that I'm very good at it, but I enjoy doing it. And I've got a loyal following of some parents and fans that like listening. They, they encouraged me and build me up. So, well, you've been fantastic on this interview. So I can't imagine that you're, you're anything but spectacular on the radio and the TV. So I'm, I'm, I'm really excited for that. I know you've got a thousand things going on and a couple of big things that you're dealing with right now in the moment. So I'm not going to take up a lot of your time, but I got a couple of questions that I asked all my, all my college guests that, that I really want your opinion on. And we've talked about it a little bit, but I want to, I want to be a little bit more specific with recruiting. What advice would you give to a high school athlete? A high school, a female athlete looking to play in college. What advice would you give them as they're starting their recruitment? What, what kind of things do you think they need to be thinking about going into their, their journey? Sure. Again, I think some of it is, is being true to yourself and really knowing and look, taking a realistic look at. Who you are, what you're looking for, what you value in this next step. Like what is really the most important piece? Because it's okay if being the star is the most important, but it isn't that for most people. Like you, some people don't want to be the absolute star. So what is it that you're looking for? And what is, is, is you love basketball enough that this is what you want to do in college. And if you do, and it's truly your passion, then find that right fit in that level that you can play at. Again, like we mentioned earlier, like, I knew coming in to my career at Coe College that I was not going to be an elite basketball player. I'm 5'5 you know, like, yeah, I was, you know, You know, relatively athletic at that age, but, you know, I didn't have the body to be a division one athlete or even an elite player at, at co college, but I loved basketball and I wanted to be a part of it. And so you know, I really went to COTA to play other sports that wasn't basketball, wasn't what I had intended to play because I knew it wasn't you know, it wasn't where I excelled, but I loved it and I wanted to be a part of that. Experience. And so you know, I think it's just being true to yourself and really taking a hard look at what do you value? What's most important to you in the process and then finding coaches and programs that meet those same values. You know, is the relationship important or is it more transactional? Do you want the money? Are you in it for the NIL money? And that's okay if you are, I mean, that, that's what some people really are is they, this is a job to them. They want the money. And that's okay. And, you know, but I believe there's more to it than that. But if, if they don't, that's okay. I think it's really just being being transparent with coaches about what it is you're looking for and finding that right fit. Division one basketball isn't for everybody. It's not, and it doesn't need to be, and that's okay. Like the scholarship isn't necessarily what makes your experience great. Or being on a high level basketball team. You know, we weren't very good when I was a co, let's be honest. Like our teams weren't, we weren't competing for Mac championships or whatever the league was at that time. It wasn't even the Iowa conference. I don't think. But, but I had an amazing experience because of the people that I was in there with, that I did it, you know, that I did it with, and, you know, some of those young women that, you know, I had a chance to meet during that time. are friends for life. And so I think it's, it's more than just the, the sport experience. I hope for most of these young people that you're mentoring, I would just encourage them to look at the total picture and really just finding the right fit for them. And, and some of that starts with just being really true and honest with yourself and finding people who will be honest with you and. And help you as well because sometimes parents have some blinders on too and they have goals and dreams for their kids that maybe aren't as realistic as they, they could or should be. And so I hope you'll, they would find people in their life who will support them, but who will be real with them and, and help them through the process. And again, that's why I love what you're doing because I know your heart and I know that you want to help them find whatever it is that the, that's the right fit for them, whether it's, you know you know, a division one scholarship at a power five top 25 institution, or whether it's a, you know, a walk on spot and an NII school or a D three school where, you know, they're going to have an amazing experience. Yeah. And I just got a kid to go. That's going to play men's boys, men's basketball. Great kid. You know, it's just unbelievable player. So I'm really excited for him and I'm excited for the new coach. So that it's such a big circle, you know, for, for you All right. Same question. Now about parents, what advice, and you, you, you started to nudge into it a little bit, but what, what advice do you give to those parents that have a 15, 16 year old talented kid? What advice would you give them about what this journey should look like and how they should approach it? Yeah, I think, I guess the biggest things that I would say is be realistic. Like, yes, your child may be an amazing player at The level that they're at, but have realistic expectations and don't put your expectations on them. I think that's the biggest thing that I would say. And I've seen that throughout the time is that, you know, parents can put so much pressure on their. Student athlete unknowingly and unintentionally that, you know, they want so badly for their student to succeed, but do they want it for the right reasons that they want it for their child or they want it because they want to make that post about how, you know, proud parent of, you know, of elite athletes. And just, I guess keeping things in perspective of like your child's happiness and their health is, is, Should be paramount. And again, don't put too much pressure on them to exceed at something that you know that maybe they don't want as badly as you do. And I can't imagine what that's like as a parent to maybe you want your child to, you know, be the all state player or the, you know, the elite athlete, but maybe your child doesn't really want that, you know, and that's okay. And I think just loving them for who they are and whatever choices they make. You know, easier said than done, I'm sure. But you know, I think just being realistic with, with their talent level and, and getting some outside advice from, from people that you trust that that have the best intentions you know, sometimes again, you can get caught up with some folks who maybe don't have the best intentions and have their egos involved. And I think that's, you Again, another piece like, you know, keep, check your ego at the door. Like, you know, keep your, your parent ego out of it. And, you know, let's, let's make this about the student athlete and then allow them to lead the process as well. You know, I think letting them direct the process will help them grow in, in their development and their maturity and make it really a place that, that they want to be, not that you hope for them because of its status or its financial Bearings. Right on, right on. Great advice, Melissa. It's such joy to see you. We have to talk more often, but I'm so proud of you and it's so excited for all that's all that you've done, but I know the best of what's coming for you is, is, is down the road for you and, and I'm excited to see where that, that, that takes you. So thank you. It's, it's been really fun and an honor to be on your podcast and look forward to to hearing many more from you and seeing all the lives that you can impact with your with your recruiting business. I think it's fantastic. So can't wait to stay in touch. Thank you, Melissa. It's been a joy. I'll I look forward to talking soon. Well, that's a wrap for this episode of the significant coaching podcast that is available audio only where ever you get your favorite podcasts. I'd like to thank my great guests and friend Melissa Bruner. Director of operations for Florida state women's basketball and for sharing her wealth of knowledge with me. I'm Matt Rogers. Thanks for joining me. I wish you all a significant week. Bye-bye.