Episode #31: Scott Winterburn

Scott Winterburn is the Head Baseball Coach at the University of La Verne in the Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (SLIAC). 

After leading his alma Mater, Asuza Pacific, for one year, Scott took over the Leopard program in 2001 and quickly turned it into a national power.

He’s led the Leo’s to 6 SCIAC titles and 8 NCAA National Tournaments in the last 23 years. Most recently, he was named SCIAC Coach of the Year and D3baseball.com Region 10 Coach of the Year in 2023 and 2024.

He’s had 6 players move on to play professionally including Scott Lindeen who was a 26th round pick by the Miami Marlins in 2005 and his All-American son, Joe Winterburn who was drafted in the 40th round by the Boston Red Sox in 2014.

After 32 years of collegiate coaching, Burn still has the same energy and passion for coaching he had in his twenties and let me tell you, it’s contagious.

We had a great conversation about everything from program building, the new NCAA roster and scholarship rules and of course his great wisdom and advice to families about college recruiting.  Enjoy!

Learn more about Scott Winterburn here:  https://leopardathletics.com/staff-directory/scott-winterburn/15

Transcript

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Welcome back to the significant coaching podcasts. I'm coach Matt Rogers. This week's guest is Scott Winterburn. Head baseball coach at the university of Laverne and Southern California. I had the pleasure of working with coach burn for three years. And he made an indelible impact on me as a coach, father and leader. He's one of the brightest baseball minds in the country. And a true leader of young men. After leading his Alma mater Azusa Pacific for one year, Scott took over the leopard program in 2001 and quickly turned it into a national power. He's led the Leos to six SkyKick titles and eight NCAA national tournament appearances in the last 23 years. Most recently he was named sky at coach of the year. And D. Three baseball.com region 10 coach of the year. In both 20, 23 and 20. Scott has had six players move on to play professionally, including Scotland Dean who was a 26th round pick by the Miami Marlins in 2005. And is all American son, Joe Winterburn, who was drafted in the 40th round by the Boston red Sox in 2014. After 32 years of collegiate coaching burns still has the same energy and passion for coaching he had in his twenties. And let me tell you it's contagious. We had a great conversation about everything from program building. The new NCAA roster and scholarship rules. And of course his great wisdom and advice to families about college recruiting. Please make sure to hit that subscribe button on all of our platforms. You find the significant coaching podcast like apple, Spotify, Amazon, and I heart radio. Where you can listen to past and future episodes with all my great high school, college and professional guests. I also encourage you to check out my book on college recruiting, significant recruiting. My weekly blog or schedule a free college or recruitment evaluation with me@coachmattrogers.com. Without further ado. Here's my conversation with coach Scott. Winterburn. Coach, how many kids do you carry on your roster? Typically I carry about 35. The last couple of years has been pretty big. I had 49, 50 kids on our roster last year and probably in the mid forties the year before. So the last couple of years have been pretty large. But typically 35 to 40, how is that for you and your staff when those numbers grow, do you change how you practice or what drills you do or what things that are routine in your days? Yeah, I think once you get for me, once I get to a certain number, which is in the mid thirties to 40, then I can effectively do two things at one time. And for me, that is getting guys at bats and innings pitch that, that didn't get a chance to pitch in the, during the weekend. And it gives them a realistic game to play that week. And then it gives me the chance to develop keep and develop a couple of guys that I think, might pop in a year or two. And I get to develop them every day. There's a method to it and I wouldn't have it any other way here at Laverne. Yeah. Are you still surprised? At the end of a year on who pops and who doesn't oh, yeah we you know, and hopefully we'll get into some recruiting later and I got a good story for you there but yeah, absolutely, you think you know I can't believe how much stronger this guy has gotten or you know look at how much his body has changed and look how it's affecting His performance and so those things and then other guys, gosh, I thought this guy was going to really be something, but then, he, it turns out for whatever reason he's not performing. So yeah, it definitely surprises every year. It always makes me happy when a kid, when you watch it, a major league baseball game and they bring a kid in out of the bullpen and they go, this kid was drafted to the 32nd round out of, Wofford or Laverne or something like that. That makes me feel really good that kid showed, Hey, I'm somebody took a chance on me and I made it work. Yeah, it does show that in sports, there's still room for the guy. And I hate to sound cliche, but the guy that really wants to get after it. He just. He needs it. He's all about it. And and he just won't take no for an answer. There's room for that guy in sports. That's right. It's the Tom Brady effect. Yeah, I love those stories. The reason I want to talk about roster size is I want to throw a hypothetical at you because the N C double A just made this huge, impactful rule change that is going to affect, I think everything at the college level. And I think there's going to be a huge triple that trickle down. It doesn't directly affect you at the division three level, but I think in the next two, three years, you're going to see a huge difference here. So let's say you're a division one coach. They're like you, they've been trying to carry 42, 45 guys just because they want more arms. They want to develop kids. And they have 11. 7 scholarships for all those kids. So now the NCAA is saying, we're capping your roster at 34. You cannot have another kid after that 34th kid. No walk on, no red shirt, 34, but we're going to give you 34 full rides. Yeah. What is that? What would, what's the first thing that pops in your head in terms of what you would do strategically if you were limited to that number? If I was limited to 11, seven, no, to 34. If I was, cause 11, seven, I, we've all done the math, depending on if you're at a state school or a or whatever your, private school or tuition, all that stuff. So we know, That you can probably do the whole thing with about 60 percent across the board Which a lot of schools go that route right and then schools put their money in the mound and then just try to build you know the rest of their roster, however, they can but you know with 34 it's I would say remember when the rules across the board for everybody. I don't know if much changes I really don't know if much changes, watched a lot of division one games, my, my son played for three years, those rosters are still going to have the same numbers of players on them. The only difference is those players are going to have money. They're going to have money now. So I don't know if it's going to have an impact on, NIL. I'm at. Division one school up here in Northern California and I'm on a scholarship. I have a scholarship right now, and am I going to jump in the portal because I'm not playing? Am I going to keep my scholarship if they'll allow me to keep it, so I think it might, you might see an impact on the portal. Guys might jump on the portal if they lose their money. But they might, they're more guys might encourage more kids to stay and and stay in the program. And then you might see more development occurring. Cause I think that's the division one, the guys that I talked to, it's they're just, a lot of them frustrated by the fact that it's hard to develop guys at that level that aren't, Your everyday guys playing and now your stars are even leaving so they had to do something. Yeah, I think I think this is it's probably a step in the right direction for them as it trickles down to us again I don't know. It's a numbers game. So The roster sizes aren't changing. So there's still going to be the same number of guys at those schools I don't know if more of them are gonna, you know go there as opposed to you know trickle down to the division twos threes and the nais and jcs, but I would say, if you're not getting money at a place, now it's going to be easier for me to recruit a guy. He says, Hey, I'm going to, I'm talking to Loyola or whatever. I, not to mention every school I'm talking to somebody's school and it's, Hey, it's really easy. Are you getting money there? And if you're not, then, maybe we're a little bit more of a bright spot for that prospect, right? Yeah. Don't be the 34th man in the 16th pitcher. You can come here and be our number one, number two in a year. Now. Now that doesn't mean every kid will get a scholarship too, because they may not, you, it's hard to, it's hard to get 34 people. On a scholarship to recruit that many people to come, and then have them land and have their fanny in the seat in August. So you're going to find some teams that have. There, they only got to 29 or they got to 31, some guys left and didn't come back and didn't return. And so there's going to be some movement. And I don't know enough about the current rule. Where, if I can go pick up a guy at the break or maybe have a stable of walk ons just in case that happens, there might be some of that going on. So it's interesting to see how this first year shakes out. I it's really interesting. I'm from the baseball side of it. I've got a football divis I'm working with no I've been the changes. I with him on football and to the fact that they're these schools and I would some power five schools, gonna really balk at givi All of a sudden that's 23 more full ride scholarships. That's, for a university that could be a half a million dollars. A budget they're losing a revenue. They're there's no doubt. I'm sure that I know where I've used to work Where i've worked at institutions where we had scholarship money to give you know, just because the limit is 34, right? My school is going to say you got 34. Yeah, yeah I remember being at maryville we transitioned from division three to division two And our president said, Hey we're going to transition into the great lakes valley conference, the number one conference in all the college basketball for division two. Everybody's got 10 full rides. We're going to give you one full ride in year one and two in year two. And I was like, what? It's like going into a gun battle with a pocket knife. So it'll be really interesting to see how the university presidents handled that. At a loyal or at a smaller division one. How do you keep up with the Joneses? Yeah, I don't, I don't know the, all the answers to that for sure. We're in business to try and create a bottom line of some kind that works. And and that bottom line is definitely not the same for everyone. I had fully anticipate there to be some movement, in, in the NC2A from divisions. If something like this happens, there's people that say that's the last straw and we're going to move, and so that kind of happens every year. And I think that's the direction it's been going. If you watch football, it leads the way for what, is coming. So I wonder, since they're capping rosters, if there's going to be a conversation about capping transfers. Were instead of telling a kid, you can't transfer giving them that freedom, but maybe telling the schools, you can only bring in, 25 percent of your roster and transfers. I don't know where that's going to go. You look at some of these like football they're going from 120, 130 kids on the roster down to 105. Yeah. Where do those other 25 kids go? They got to go into the portal. So now we're looking, five, 10, 000 kids in the portal. Does that go to 15 to 20, kids go? So does that, do you see that happening where you're going to see more talent on the market? I would think so. I've always had a. An idea that there's a lot of talent out there that's untapped, we, for whatever reason, and a lot of those kids, they don't even play playing, some of the kids that end up in the portal that, that are not playing or not, are not playing, for obvious reasons, they're not playing because they haven't developed themselves and they haven't kept up with, the classes that they came in with. And so they're, they've dropped off the radar a little bit. And if given the opportunity, then will they put their foot back on the accelerator? To get back on a roster. And so when you see that kind of movement, what you mostly get, what we've seen again, I don't know what the future holds, but what we've seen in the past is we've seen kids quit, and so we'll see a reduction in the number of athletes that play. in all the sports when those kind of rules happen. I, that's why I believe that, when you're looking at these rules you have to give to me, that's paramount to give kids an opportunity to play the game that they went to college to play. If it's not working out at the place that, that they're at. I don't want to lose kids, that, that do genuinely want to play and just can't don't have a vehicle to find a place that's been my mission the last couple of years is just trying to educate kids and families about really work to find the right fit. Don't get caught up in division level. Don't get caught up in athletic scholarship and NIL money, because you're going to get lost in that mindset, look for a coach that sees you and your abilities the same way you see yourself. And I think that's so important that you're picking a place where you can be comfortable and get a great education. And there's an automatic relationship. It's just dating, typically if you're on a date I haven't dated in 30 years, but when you're on a date, man, you typically know in the first five to 10 minutes, if you can connect to that person and if. You're talking to a coach and you're not connecting to that coach or and I'll throw this back at you. If you get on the phone with a kid and you're not connecting with that kid, what's your first thought? What's your next step when you feel that? Yeah we have several steps when we recruit here for the baseball team. So typically I'll have our recruiting coordinator will, we'll find him or if he doesn't find him, one of. Us finds him. We send him, send that recruit to him in terms of connection. And then he starts the recruiting process. He's talking to him on the phone and he gets an impression. And so as he gets an impression, if we still like him, we're going to go to the our, we have another guy on our coaching staff who, was a scout, major league baseball scout for 20 years. So he is going to go now evaluate him. And and he's going to look at his skills and he's going to say, yeah, this guy fits, and then I'm going to meet him. So now with the three of us, we got a really good idea. I think he's got three, three cracks at, do, oh do we vibe with this guy? Is this guy on, on, on the same kind of wavelength we are, is he a go getter? Is he got the kind of energy we're looking for? Is he got the kind of respect level we're looking for? All those things and then he, we bring them on campus. So I'm not trying to bring anybody on campus that I don't know about that I haven't had our program connect with, we're trying to hit a thousand at home on the retreat trail. That's I'd rather be 10 for 10 on the year than a 10 for 200. And the 10 you get, you connect with six of them, I think those are things that happen. And so over time, that's what I've evolved to, at this current time, and if the scenery changes in the next year or two, three, I'm gonna change with it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep right on moving and try and find out how to find the kids that we need to be successful, right. You don't do it as long as you've done it. You don't stay at one place for 25 years without adapting. And that's, what's impressive about what you've done and continue to be successful after year with that. Let's talk about that energy of that kid and that the quality of that kid and what you're hearing. What are some of those things that get you excited? When your two assistants have talked to a kid, now it's your turn. What are you, when you hear that kid's voice for the first time, what gets you excited almost immediately about a kid? A couple of things. One is, I like kids that are really competitive, and it doesn't have to be, it's not an outward thing, it's not a braggadocious, it can be, I don't mind that, but I want to see that a guy has confidence in his own ability. Hey, players here and we got t and one of them is a retu know, hey coach, I just, an opportunity. I just wa See if I can, make the team and contribute, I just, and again, it's not a, it's not necessarily a humble thing. It's a confidence thing. It's they're just looking for an opportunity because they know if they get an opportunity that I'm gonna like them, that's in their heart, this coach can like me if he just will see me play and interact with his team. And so those kind of kids that are looking for an opportunity like that gets me excited about a player because I know I've, I know that this is a player that is going to stick and and they're going to be one of those kids that you tell one time. Yeah, you use the word respect when we were talking about what your staff are looking for. What does that sound like to you from a kid? It sounds like a, if you have that, then in your have an awareness of, all the people that have come before you, and set this thing up for you. Yeah. You have an awareness of your folks. What they're doing for you, to put you in a position, to get good grades, to be at a, to be at a, to play for a quality coach, to be in a program, to go maybe go have gone and played travel ball or even if it was city ball, whatever it was, you have an awareness of what The sacrifices that people have made around you, put you in that position and that, and if you have that, then you're going to have an awareness when you're, even when you're just reading a website, if they go online, if they never. They read the website 10 minutes before they got here. They're reading it different. What they're pulling out of those articles is different than someone that's reading that article for what that school can do for them only. That's right. They're like, wow, I didn't know this place was around for this many years. And I didn't know that, wow, they've had a lot of success here. Oh, look at, they've had a lot of good players. They're starting to get excited about the history of what's happened. So to me, that's what respect looks like. And you don't have to be in awe of it, but you, but to have a healthy respect, I think means that you're aware of others. Yeah it's like walking into somebody's house that's invited you in and not opening up the fridge and grabbing yourself something to drink. We're rolling in the classroom the first day. And I look at coach Rogers there and I say, hi, Matt. That's right. I was just gonna, I was just gonna ask that. It's again I a lot of guys call me burn, but when you're doing as long, even when I was younger, I thought, do I know you, are we friends? Did we hang out? I don't know what's going on, but I think that's called, and I, we do, I think a pretty good job of that in this program is that's called leveling. That's called leveling. And, to me, that shows a lack of confidence, I'm trying to put you on my level, right? And that shows that I'm not confident in my own ability to keep you where you are in your space. And I can stay in my space and we can really connect. Organically and let all the chips fall where they may have. No, I gotta knock you down a few notches on the, onto this level, to get respect from you. No, you don't have to do that at all. And then, so we talk a lot to our players, we we have a, we devote a great deal of time to really just talking and doing the things that we're talking about, and that to me is the foundation. Yeah, that is what transcends the swings and the throws and all the sprints and all the stuff that you do. It's that understanding. I, for me, I find myself, I'm such a big baseball fan. And I've been, since I was two years old, I, I coached college basketball, but baseball has always been my sport. And that's why I loved having you across the hall for three years. Cause I could, I knew I was a second, a step away from talking baseball, but I'm such an old school thinker. George Brett just came out and talked about how to hit the ball. And so he's so frustrated with, I think the average major league baseball hitter right now is batting 246. Yeah, and I remember in the 80s, if you were batting sub 260, you were, there was a really good chance you were going to lose your job. That's right. Now the average hitter is 246 because, angle of your swing and home runs become such a big part. They don't even, we got Kyle Schwarber batting 198 leading off for the Phillies and taking them almost to the world series last year. Yeah. Where are you at? With analytics and what's changed with the game at those higher levels and just coming back to the basics of taking good swings, hitting line drives, hitting the ball where it's thrown. As a pitcher throwing strikes, being able to hit your spots, where are you at with where the game has gone? And have you changed with it? Have you adapted with it? Or have you taken pieces? It's a really complex question has multiple layers, really, in the answer, but I hate to make always and never statements, I'm going to stay away from that on this one, but I'll say this. What you're seeing on the major league level is you're seeing the numbers reflect the intent of the players and the intent of the players are reflected in the dollars that are spent in salaries and the communication that's happening from the analytics team on down into the coaching staff, with the coaching staff and into the players. All right. When you tell players, we don't care what your batting average is. And we want you to produce as many home runs as possible. Then they can pin their ears back and do that. And I would contend that for as long as baseball has been around, those teams have had players that can do that. They can say they can forego a 300 average and give you 25 home runs. They can do that, right? They just don't do that because that's not the way the game was played back then. I think it's a poor quality of offense. And it's definitely a poor show for the fans, right? And and then when you caught, when you throw on top of that, if there's teams that, that can't afford to play that way, right? If you're going to hit home runs and I'm going to get home runs and you get more guys that can hit home runs. Yeah. And I'm gonna pitch for strikeouts and we don't care about strikeouts anymore So we're gonna get guys that can throw a strike and so do you're gonna get more of those too So i'm still losing i'm still losing so The smarter teams are the ones that say, look, we're not going to completely trash can the analytics. We're going to look at them and because the analytics can tell you, the analyst can tell you who has power, who makes contact, who's patient. Who's a quality offensive player who will move a guy over or stand at a bat long who stayed, who has multiple pitches. You can literally craft the team to beat those guys because it's not about hitting, it's not about hitting home runs to beat them. It's about scoring more runs than they do today. That's right. And the smarter teams do that. And they put guys they get guys together and they put guys in a position. To have a significant impact on their lineup every day. So I use the analytics because with each new wave of analytics comes to me, it's just fascinating. First of all, talking, I'm a hard, I'm a baseball nerd. I've been saying I was doing analytics when I was nine years old on the both. Yep. And that was our form of analytics. So we had the numbers on the back of everybody's baseball card and we had the box scores every day. We had the box scores every day in paper newspapers. So you could pour over that information and really know those players. Yep. And and they're doing that. at a different level. They're trying to figure out what value is. Yeah. And to keep it, as simple as possible, there's still no greater value than a run scored and a run prevented. There's no greater value than that. A run scored and a run prevented. And now. Over a couple of games, you can't determine that. Cause I could beat you 20 to two today. And then lose a close one. You'll think I'm really a juggernaut offense. I'm not, over the course of a whole season, there's there's value to to run scored and runs prevented. You use them to find those guys. I think we should be using more of the analytics to figure out a lot more since the game has changed. For instance, since the game has changed and our pitchers are just especially our relievers in the basic level, they're just max out max effort. Every pitch, these guys are breaking, they're getting hurt at record numbers. We need to use the analytics in the same way to figure out how to use these guys. And keep them healthier, you can't say hey, look at we're going to change your intent The way you throw the ball that it was way different 20 years ago 30 years ago and beyond But we're going to use the old rules when it comes to how many days you're going to rest and how many days You go back to back or back to back and then you get a day off You got to reevaluate that right and because these guys are pitching differently and they protect those assets in the minor leagues And then once they get to the major leagues, it just, it's Hey, use them until they break and then get another one. It's just crazy to me. And I think analytics greatly affects the player because if you're telling me this guy has a 2, 500, rotation spin rate and mine is only 1800. I've got to snap my wrist and my elbow even faster and even harder to try and keep up with that guy, even though I've been a really good pitcher because I can hit my spots and change my speeds. But now all of a sudden they're telling me I have to have more rotation on the ball. It's obviously going to affect my elbow. It's obviously going to affect my shoulder. That's right. And that's where you get hurt. We've known for years you change an arm angle you're, you gotta be careful. You can't just change an arm angle and pat him on the butt and say, get out there, kid. See you later. You change an arm angle, he's throwing a whole new way. And you've been into the facilities where they got the screens on the wall and it's really awesome. Kids are throwing, you could see the spin axis and how many, and the rotation and all, and they got pictures of the release point and all that stuff. And that's great. But, just because your ball spins faster, doesn't mean you can throw it for a strike. And it doesn't mean that the batters doesn't see your ball better than he sees someone with less spin rate. That's right. From the numbers that, and then simple, we know from the numbers that the guys with the best spin rates in the game, aren't necessarily having the best years. They may have had good years or whatever, but they're not necessarily having the best year. So just those things in and of itself, the guy with the most bat speed isn't necessarily squaring up baseballs. That's your hope. Finding how to, maybe the first step is just, finding the analytics that you discover what you're doing, when your pitches work that, that might be a better use of, and a lot of people are they do that. Hey, when I throw a good two seamer, all right, when I throw a good, sinker, What's that pitch like? And so i'm trying to put that together because we're our both coaches I mean if you had a dollar if every time somebody came flying down the court and made some move and you go What'd you how'd you do that? I don't know, And then they never do it again, it's you're looking For that lightning in a bottle for somebody. And I think that's what the business of analytics is all about. It's trying to find out what that lightning in a bottle is and then put that kid in a position where you know, they can use it. It's about consistency it's it's the great failure of my golf game I cannot find, my backswing is different every swing, my, I'm going to hit the face of the ball different, the face of the club. I want to transition to roster building because in my eyes there's nobody better at your level than building a roster. So I'll go back to my old school approach. I, and I've talked about this numerous times in the podcast as a cub fan. It's hard for me to say this, but I'm such a big fan of what Whitey Herzog did in the early eighties. With the Cardinals and even with the Royals, the idea of. Put your, put a really great hitter up front. Somebody that can get on base, feel your bag, have a guy batting second that can hit behind a runner, lay down a bunt, have a guy that's third, that's great doubles guy can hit you some home runs, and then you got your power hit at fourth. All that's gone now. Yeah. How are you building a roster differently in terms of just your lineup and what you want your lineup to look like? And you look at what the Padres did midyear. They were struggling what they do. They go out and they go out and trade for a rise from Florida. Yeah. And they put themselves in a chance to go to the playoffs because now they've got a guy that's batting three 40 gets on base 400 at the top. And all of a sudden all those hitters behind you. Have RBI potential now that they didn't have before. How are you building out your roster from the hitters? And we'll talk about the pitchers next, but how are you building out your roster? Is it different than it was 30 years ago? Yeah, it's a little bit different just because I think the recruiting processes are different. I can't go to Albuquerque in March and bring up a guy or a guy in the middle of the year. So when I'm building a roster out in the off season, I am looking for my, for the guys that, that, that. Aren't coming back. I'm looking for the holes in my roster, like everybody else, but I'm not necessarily trying to fill that roster with a third basement, right? I'm looking for a infielder, a guy that can play infield that can hit. Or maybe I'm looking for a left handed hitter. We don't have enough left handed hitting each time. And I'm looking for a specific athlete and we'll plug and play, and that, in that regard, that's the better formula for me, because, if you're looking for a left fielder, it doesn't mean that left fielder is going to jive in any way with the lineup that you're bringing back and that you're building for the future. So my recruiting. Focus is really on next best player, right? Next best player at at not necessarily a certain position, but a close enough position, next best player. And then you start that, if you really liked the player that you're recruiting and I like his offense and he can add value. I don't necessarily look to add speed or add power unless I don't, unless I really am lacking it. And we've been in place last few years where we've got good team speed. We've got good team pop, we're pretty good on defense. I am just looking for the next best player. I don't care if it's a speed guy or a power guy lately. A couple of years ago, before we made this run, like we needed some more sock, right? So we started looking for some guys that potentially could hit some more doubles and and hit the ball with authority and handle the middle of the lineup. And we found them. That's great. Yeah. So you're not necessarily thinking when you're recruiting, you're not thinking, gosh, we really need a lead off hitter. Or we really need a guy. I will. If I'm looking at my current roster and again, I haven't had to do this in a while. I'm looking at my current roster and I'm like, man, we really lack a lead off hitter, then I will go find a lead off hitter. I'll go find a guy that I think can lead off. Yeah. Haven't had, so yeah, it specifically like last year I had two kids that, that threw almost 200 innings between them. And they're gone. That's a ton to replace. Yeah, it is. You got to get four or five guys because not only is. One of those guys pitching 85, 90 innings the year before he pitched 100 innings. He's pitching the majority of those innings with a lead or with in the majority of those innings, winning baseball or close to, winning the game. He's not coming out of the game ever. really in the third inning of a start trailing seven to one. It's just not happening. So you got to get three or four kids because most kids can't pick, they can throw that many pitches, but they can't be in the game that long and secure a lead. So you need, you just need, you need those arms. And that's where our guys, we huddle and we say, all right, this is what we're looking for. Let's go get them, I think it says a lot about the consistency of your success when you're not saying, I'm a speed guy. We're going to, we're going to, we're going to win every year with stealing bags. We're going to get on and we're going to steal bags. I'm a Homer guy. We're going to go find the biggest bat we can find. And yeah, we're going to win by home runs. You're looking at it going. I don't really trust what's coming back at catcher third and second. All right. I've got to find some kids that can play at those positions, if we need them and to come in and compete with what we have, is that the right mindset? Yeah, that's right. And like next week when we start, I'll walk into the room and I'll say, and a lot of the veterans will know this talk, cause I give it every year. Every person in this room is now different than they were last year. Every person, the returners, the incoming people, there are at a new place, the returning people at the same place, but their bodies are different. Their minds are more experienced. That can be a plus or a minus. We are nothing more than a bunch of guys that have to now figure out again how we're going to score runs and how we're going to prevent runs at the most effective way possible. What happened last year is over. It can't, it is not worth. trying to repeat. It's not worth it because we may discover along the way that we play with some slightly different nuance. And that can be the key to big, you score two more runs a game. It doesn't seem like a lot, but over 50 games. Those are the messages we send. So I don't know, I literally don't know next year I have an idea, right? But I don't know exactly how we'll put together a lineup for games because we'll have to figure out what we have right now and play with that. So we have to be versatile, and if we got to play with speed because that's what we have, then we'll shift in two seconds and play with speed. And we'll push it. Yeah. I'll bring in the run coaches and we'll, we'll figure it out, man. We'll love it. We'll get ready to do that, yeah. And I've transitioned as a basketball coach the same way over the years there. I wanna play a certain way, but you look at your roster, right? Gosh, we've got two bigs this year, man. We need to slow it down a little bit. We've gotta take advantage of that size we have. I'd love to play a wide open style. Yeah. Yeah. Stealing bags and yeah. And taking third and stealing home and and hitting and running and squeezing the defense tighter to the field and forcing you to try to hit it overhead. I'd love to do that. But if you're not built that way, you're going to lose games trying to force that. Instead of, giving yourself the best chance to compete, I love that you start the year with the conversation about everybody's different and everybody's everybody you're not who you were. I'm different. I'm different. You're different. I do. The kids here. Johnny. Had a fastball and a change up last year. He spent the last six months developing his curveball. Yeah. He's got a curveball now that he can throw for strikes anytime he wants. He didn't have that six months ago. Daryl had 29 errors last year at third base. That's all he did all summer was take ground balls. That's right. He is, he's a wall now. Yeah, that's right. Do the kids hear that in that? Yeah, I think when you have the vet, once you have culture in your program, which is, a lot of these schools don't understand. They interchange your coaches. All you didn't win, get him out of here, get a new guy in here. They think this stuff just happens, cause, cause when to hit and run, when you start getting some culture that precedes you then you got, you have just, you don't have a program full of players that are championing your mantras, right? You're absolutes. They're championing those things. Then they hear it because there's no more powerful message. Which is why we have kids help with recruiting, right? And hey, come meet this guy. He's a catcher too. He's a senior, you're a freshman. He's going to, he's going to show you the ropes. Like it's powerful. When I hear that from somebody, that's my peer, now it's giving credibility to all the things that are happening here, no matter how small the detail, it's getting credibility to it. So I always say, guys like when I'm recruiting them, I said, if I have them on campus, I try and have them on campus when we're going to have a lift, right? Because they go and watch our lift. Our lift isn't, is incredible. You got Maddie Durant. There's nobody. But all of our programs have Matt Durant. Yeah. All of our athletic programs have Matt Durant, what's been happening. In the baseball program with coach Durant in, in, in the last 10, 15 years, especially, it's just special. He's got a connection and and our guys are dialed in and it's impressive to watch it. It's bought into his energy. They're just like I've let it, my first message to our team is you're lifting now he's the head coach, this is his team in here. And Matt, this is your team. You make the necessary judgments in the weight room. This is your team when they're in here and then, and you, and then, all, weightlifting goes, you get, you start getting stronger, you start seeing these big gains. You start, you're like, oh my gosh, look how much I'm cleaning or look how much, I can press now, whatever that is, you just want to, you just want to keep going. And that brings two or three guys along. So the culture is so strong in there. You want a player to see that and say, look, this is how we're going to try and do it at Laverne. This guy, we're going to try and do, I don't know if it'll, I don't know if it'll amount to wins on the wind, on the leaderboard, but we're going to, we think it does. So we're going to try and do it this way. And if you want to be a part of Laverne baseball, this is what it looks like. This is what it looks like at its core. I think it's a huge testament to what Laverne has gotten right over the years with the fact that you're a D three institution. You really don't see your kids for what? Five out of the 12 months, you can't be anywhere with them. The fact that you have another head coach for those five months. With those kids and create that intensity, like a D one program has for 12 months. Yeah. Who, how many other D three programs can even say that, that they're, I've had D one bounce backs that say, Oh my gosh, awesome. Yeah. We didn't do this at my school. And I'm like, and they're like, no, not like this, and it's not it's not any more time. It's not any more time spent. It's probably less. What they're doing is much more intense and much more pointed and and with great intent, that's it. If you don't have Matt Durant you're hoping your senior captain can rally the troops, get them in there, push them, create that intensity. And you're crossing your fingers that something good is happening because you can't be in there with them. That's right. That's right that's it's a huge difference huge Yeah, it's a big difference when you know, I have a relationship with matt it goes way back You know, I you know, I trust him You know, and I've let him know, like mistakes are going to happen. We we address this sort of mistakes are going to happen. The these kids aren't they're tough, they're not going to break. And if something happens and it was your fault, just let me know. And if it's my fault, whatever, I'll let you know, we're going to fix it. We're going to continue to grow and get better. So let's go out there and do what we can. And and let's let's do the best job we can for these guys. It's carte blanche. Let's go for it. Let's keep researching. Let's keep studying. Let's, Matt. He's gone to the pitching bootcamps and he knows how to do all of it. He knows what the difference between a baseball player and a football player. He knows the difference between a position player and a pitcher. You're right. He knows how to do it all. And so I think that's important and it's super valuable. Anybody that's listening to this, Matt Duran is the head strength conditioning coach at the University of Laverne now for what, 20 years? And there really is nobody better. Cause what coach Burns talking about here is Matt will go to all these clinics for every sport, such as baseball, he goes for track. He goes for football. He wants to learn, how do I develop the muscles for that specific athlete? And he does such a great job for it. So I want to make sure Matt gets his props. Coach, I can talk to you all day. I want to talk, I want to hit recruiting a little bit here to end. But you talked about culture and I'm finding myself college coaches bring up culture all the time. What is it? How do you define it? What does it look like to you? Okay. So this is where, if I was going to write a book, of significance like yours, Let's do it. I'm all in. If I was going to write a book, I would write about this. Good. Because I think this is everything. This is a family. This is a kids parents, cousins, uncles, companies, businesses. This happens to be what we're doing right now is we're playing baseball and we're going to school for our athletes. We're doing those two things. If I ask every college athlete, What are the two things that take up most of your time in your life right now and that you're doing? They're gonna say, I'm a college athlete and I'm going to school. Now, of course, they're a brother or a sister or whatever they are, they're a son, a daughter, they're all those things. But the two things they're doing, it's taken up most of their time in their life right now is they're a college athlete and they're a student. So there's really no excuse. To not absolutely focus on what's in front of you. There's no excuse for that. If you're not focusing on what's in front of you, that is a problem. And that's where we come in as adults to help them understand that because they're not going hard in the suicide drill in the basketball court, because they don't want to go hard. It's that. They're fatigued and they want to stop trying and it's that they want to stop trying. It's that you can have a conversation about without, blowing your stack. You can have that conversation. And so for me, culture is about being all about what we're about. And if that means running hard down the line, When I'm not looking, are you running hard down the line when I'm not looking? And are holding yourself to that standard all by yourself? Do you want to do that? It has to be you. It can't be me, right? So culture happens there. I will work with any, Baseball player on our team before after practice. I'll work with any of them, but they have to ask me They have to ask me, because if I come to them and again, what do I know? I've only been doing this for years But if I come to them and I say, Hey, let's work on your slider. And you're like, Oh, okay, great. They're not listening. They don't want to work on their slider. They might've had three other things on their mind when they've wrapped around their, around, around their mind, they've wrapped their mind around what they want you to help them with. And they ask you that they're ready to work on that. Now that usually, as we know, that comes after failure usually comes after failure and that's okay. All right. I'm still willing to help as long as they ask me, but I'm not chasing anybody down the street. So what ends up happening is your use of time on your early work and your one on one work throughout the course of a whole season. That gets really way more efficient because kids are asking and we've got, other coaches that can facilitate that as well. So culture is you wanting to do what we're all about. It's you wanting to do it, you valuing it. It's not me telling you, it's not giving them a, a book this thick and saying here are the rules of the team, sign it, and I'm going to hold you accountable to every single rule, no, it is, do you want to, do you want to do this stuff? Do you want to be the guy that not only runs hard down the line, if we're up in the box on this picture, you're up in the box. No questions asked. You don't even think about it. You just go to the front. Are we on the plate? Are we off the plate? You can tell you got, Hey, get on the plate. And the guy moves up a quarter inch on the plate. You're like no. Move back in the box. And he takes a step, no. He doesn't want to do it. So I'd rather call time out and put a guy in that wants to do that. Cause trust me, there's a guy on your bench that's going, I'll do it. And when you show that's how it is, because I'm not, people think people that don't know me, they might think, he's really strict and he's tough to play for. No, not at all. When your players learn, I'm not kicking anybody off the team for not standing in the back of the box. It's but I am going to switch the players. That's right. I hope you get back in. I'm really pulling for you. I hope, hey, I'm pulling for him too, though. So if he gets a double, I'm gonna cheer for him too. I'm pulling for him too. He may get the next opportunity before you. That's, that was your fault. You had the opportunity. You had it. It was right. All you had to do was want to do those things. And again, I want to have, I have grace. All day long, I'm a big second chance guy. Like I can put up with so much failure. I can deal with it. It's part of the deal. And so I want the same in return. I tell you, I'm going to make some mistakes this year with you. But I'm not going to make as many as you make. I'm just not, I'm going to make a few though. And when I make a few have some grace, like I am trying to get you better. I am trying, I am trying to get you better. So we may do some things that don't quite work out, but we're going to find out. We're going to lift up every rock and look under it and we're going to find the answers for you. And you'll play your best baseball that you've ever played here. And that's because, you want to do those things that you haven't wanted to do for a long time, and that's a big powerful thing. And when you get guys that want to do it, now they're walking into a room and there's no coaches there. What are they talking about? What are they doing? If it deteriorates all the way to zero, you got terrible culture. That's right. It's going to deteriorate probably a little bit, but it's going to pick back up with the right culture. You're going to have those strong leaders that are going to say no we're good after this, what we're doing. So that to me is that's how we stay proud of each other after the fact. 10 years later, when a guy's going to coach, I love you so much. Thanks a lot. I love you too. Hey, that's why we're telling each other that 10 years later, because we had that mutual culture together that we cared about it. And we learned that we cared about each other through that process. That's powerful to me. Yeah. It's still. 25, 30 years later, when I hang up with a kid who's 42 years old and has three kids and making 300, 000 a year, is the CEO of this for that. And as we hang up the phone, he goes, love you, coach. It's still melts me into a pot. Yeah. It stops you, I'll tell you, it really stops others too. I, my own family, like when they see, they don't always get a chance to. See that interaction, but when they do that's always powerful for them. Dad, man It's really great to see how much these kids, just you know are together with You know, i'm like, yeah, it's just it's just great. It's yes. No, I wish I was as knowledgeable at a younger age, but I just feel like that's part of the evolution, I think because you want to be, I think you want to be a good coach, right? You want to be, that's a desire when you first start, you don't just. Want the wins for your resume. You want to be considered a good coach. You want someone to respect you So I think wanting to do that is what the building blocks, you know They start stacking up because you want to get better I mean what drives you to write that book? What drives you to go say yourself the end of the season? Okay, how can I get better? No, i've been doing this a long time. But how can I be even how can I be better next year? How can I build on another year? Okay some routines never die, go down to Barnes and Noble, start asking some friends. Hey, what have you read lately? Read a couple books, stay current, do some of the things that stimulate that in you and off you go. I think that's where we're failing in our youth sports culture. My daughter, she's on her fifth club volleyball team in five years. Ugh. She's 15 years old, dad. And she never wanted to leave any of the five clubs. They basically, 11 girls on the team, nine of'em, they said, Hey, great year. And we never heard back from them. They never invited us back, so we had to go look for another club. Yeah. So my, my, my question to them is, what are you trying to build here? When every year you only have two or three practices a week, you only have four or five months together And you're starting from scratch every single year in terms of building relationships and culture and discipline and understanding of what your program looks like. And the schools, like you that have said, we're going to commit to you coach Winterburn through the, then, because we believe in you. We know you're going to have bad years. We know you're going to make some mistakes. We know your kids are going to make some mistakes. We know there's going to be some years where we're going to have a conversation about this or that. Yeah. But when you've been doing it for 25 years, your kids. Building that culture. When you step out of the room, your assistant coaches still have that same respect. When your assistant coaches step out that room, they've got Matt Grant. When Matt Grant steps outta the room, you've got seniors. When the seniors walk out, you've got juniors, and that accountability starts with ourself. But when it's constantly mirrored year after year after year and it becomes ingrained, now you've got something special. Yeah. Oh yeah. No, there's reasons why if you look at the top professional organizations across the sports, certain organizations just tend to be in the upper echelon every year. They may not win the Super Bowl every year. They may not win the world series or the Stanley cup, but they have good programs year after year. They're winning teams. And then of course you realize that nobody wins it every year. Nobody, but there's organizations that just, they just run through coaches and administration. Like they just keep running through them and they've got that false narrative. That team didn't win because the, you got to fire somebody now it's even written. In the media, there's someone's got to go. So it's usually the coach. Who made that rule? Why does somebody have to go? Why does somebody have to go? So if that's your, I think the stronger organizations, they're going to say, this is our coach. That coach isn't going anywhere. She's not moving anywhere. She's, this is our coach. And she's not going anywhere. So players, figure it out. Big figure out what she's asking of you and and let's get it done. So I think that strength is what builds culture. That's what builds culture, and every once in a while things happen, you got to make a change. That's for sure. But. I've always felt even in the youth sports, like you alluded to the youth sports. I, we got to find a way to make, to me more of an emphasis on your community, and less on the national brand. Yeah. Okay. It's so true. It's why are we even having this conversation? it, you focus on, if each community focuses on really running. The best programs they can possibly run utilizing all the resources that they have most communities are rich and in resources that they don't even know about there's coaches in every community that have done things And they could tap those resources and really build some really special things And those kids would benefit from that so from that continuity They would benefit from that year over year we want our kids to play next year. That's what we want. That's our kids want to play next year. That's our biggest success. That's right. Oh, where injuries can happen and things can happen personally in people's lives. Wanting to spend your time out on a soccer field somewhere or a football field or basketball court or baseball field, whatever it is in the pool. That's the key. If I can see a kid that wants to do that, I know there's something quality going on. In that program, that's why the portal has become such a double edged sword for me. I love that. I wish I would've had it 30 years ago. I wish somebody, I wish there was a process where, when my coach got fired after my freshman year, I wish there would have been a process already in place where I knew, okay, I can go look. If the coach coming in, doesn't want me, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do with a coach that wanted to bring in his own guys. So I sucked it up and hated life and hated myself and didn't pursue it. So I love the portal from that perspective, but I don't like, it's like my kids. I'm teaching them how to play golf. We got to hit a shot over the pond. I just tell them, don't even look, just look at the pen. Don't worry about that water in front of you. I tell recruits. Imagine the portal doesn't exist. Imagine that you've got to go somewhere for four years and that's it. That's going to be your only chance. That's how you need to go into this journey. That's right. I was telling you earlier that, and I did want to tell you a little story about one of our players. in this kind of alludes to that. So I had this kid a couple of years ago and it's really about this time of the year. I would say it's August. Yeah, and probably end of july. He emails me personal email, which I like but it's late And then we're wrapped up for this for the pretty much we're wrapped up. We're full And Hey, coach so and I'm coming to Laverne. I'm going to be a student. I've already enrolled. I'm from this high school over here. And I was hoping maybe I could get a, a tryout or any information on if you hold tryouts, whatever. I read it and I'm like, okay, if it's kids, my, my first comment is always, why, how come I haven't talked to you yet? You're a senior, you've already applied. How come I haven't talked to you? Did you quit? Did you play three years ago? And you're, I don't know what the story is. I'm not going to say I blew him off, but let's just say he wrote me another email. So he wrote me another email and and so now, okay, he's him, he's written me a second email. So I responded to the second email, said, sure, we'll, we can talk, but I'm going on a little trip. I'm going to go fish and I'll be back. You're going to have to get in contact with me when I get back. He goes, okay, through email, right? So I go on my fishing trip and then I come back the next week and sure enough, he emails me again. I said, fine. I'll meet with him. So he comes in and so he sits down and, I'm like, okay, what's the story, tell me the thing. And so he's telling me all about it. And, I was here and I went to high school and now I'm here and, I was just hoping I had a chance to play and show you what I could do. I, if I get a tryout, that'd be great. And, I know you guys got to, he said, all right, then you guys got a great program. I just want to see if I can, you make the team. I said after talking to him for about 25 minutes. Now I like him right now. Now I like the kid, right? You talk we talk about all those things like respect humility all those, he's got it in spades he gets it. He it's clear that he gets it So after he comes to laverne and he enrolls and so we start doing our stuff and you know We have fundraising days in the fall and the kids are lifting and they work out on their own And then one of my veterans goes hey coach This kid's pretty good. I go, he is. He goes, yeah. I go how good is he? He goes, pretty good. I go, is he going to play? He goes, I think so. I think he's going to get some playing time. I go, as a freshman, he goes, yeah. Make a long story short, we're, he is competing for some time right out of the gate. He we come into January. We're competing and one of our players gets hurt. And he's out two months. We put that kid in, he starts whole year. Wally Pip. And it's beyond Wally Pip. It's more, it's you know what? There's so many kids. And I don't mean this to be critical. There's so many kids that have no concept of how to have that interaction that's happened like that. I never met dad. I never met mom, which I do every time. I never met uncle bill, the plumber. I never met anybody. The kid came in. He's the one that emailed me a personal email. He made the appointment. He came in, he had the conversation. I'm the one that's experienced at that conversation, not him at 17. He had the conversation. He asked for his opportunity. He wasn't ever asking me, how many guys do you keep on the roster? How many players are in front of me? Am I going to get an automatic roster spot? Do I get to wear number 12? None of that stuff. Can I have an opportunity? I'm going to be here for four years at school. This is a kid's made his mind up. He's coming to Laverne. He's going to graduate from here. This is the school he's chosen to come to. If baseball doesn't work out, he's going to go to school here where he's going to go to school. And he wants desperately baseball to work out. So he's gonna do everything he can to make that happen. Now talk about something that gets you going as a coach, right? And this guy is freshman year. By the end of the year he's running all of our defenses. He's doing all of it. He's not he's not he's not going to be, he's not hitting a bunch of home runs. He just plays baseball. Is he a catcher? No. He's shortstop. And to me, if I was going to tell a parent how, The kid should feel that's how that a kid should feel, words people have different personalities you to have that confidence in yourself to put yourself out there by yourself to go have that Conversation not have any but no one's doing anything for him, right? I don't know if that's out of necessity or not, but He's taken it upon himself and he's played like that since he's been here and conducted himself like that is not person you're calling saying, where's this? Where's that? How can we get this? It's all done. All of it all the time, hunger, humility, internal fire. Yeah, I don't even think it's not about what's after here. It's, this is where I want to be. This is what I want to be doing and talk about a guy that can focus on what's in front of him in spades. That is focusing on what's in front of you is having that, those conversations, having those interactions totally focused on what you're doing all the time, and he's the, those kinds of kids are the calmest kids on the team, they're super calm. Why? Because they've done it so many times. They don't know how to do it any other way, so they're not. If it's a basketball player, that's the kind of kid that he just goes in and when he gets his opportunity and ball comes to him, it swings to him and he puts it up and he can make half his shots from the three point line. It's going to, it's good. They're going to go in. He's just done it so many times the right way, knows how to practice, knows how to get himself ready. It is, that's what you get, and, as well as I do, that has nothing to do with height, weight, none of that stuff. Those things are all a bonus or detriment. But None of them are super important to your performance. They just aren't. I was going to ask you your advice to give to kids and parents going through the recruiting process, but I don't know if you can say it any better than what you just did. And honestly, I'm not sure the advice and the story isn't equally great advice for coaches. High school, college pro, whatever it may be, because we all need to remember that if there's a kid out there that really wants to be a part of it, really wants to work and really wants to be that kid, that's going to take accountability and be humble and take what's given and earn what's given. That, that is the beginning of a great culture when you have one, two, three, 10 kids like that. It really is. Maybe the thing that. We may miss on kids like I just described as maybe this kid just wasn't recruited at all. And that's The bottom for him taking it. No, nobody wants me. So I got to make my own way. So when you make the decision to make your own way, now you're willing to ride the roller coaster, willing to get on strap up and ride the roller coaster. But so many, some of our top recruits are the ones that are the most fragile. We know that. Yes. They've been recruited by everybody and they want everyone to tell them they're going to start and bat third and, and it doesn't work. It doesn't work that way. That person's a lot of times not equipped for the downs. Everybody's equipped for the ups. You're right. I five is not hard when it goes in. It's a bumpy ride. I, when I recruit, I tell recruits three things. We'll coach it. You'll get an opportunity. It's going to be the hardest thing you've ever done athletically period. That's the promise. You, I, you're going to bat against left handers. No, favorite number. No. I don't none of that stuff. I can't promise you're gonna make the travel roster I'm not gonna promise you start or you're gonna platoon or whatever that you're gonna pinch it I can't make that determination we're gonna play the best nine. We're gonna play them all the time, Travel roster is going to be a 30 ish Playoff roster is 25. I hope you're on it You know, but we'll coach you. You'll get an opportunity every day that you're here every week that you're here. And it's going to be a harsh thing you've ever done athletically by far, it's not going to be the hardest thing personally, cause we've all had personal tragedies and things that happened and kids are not immune to those things. So those things that's what we're here for. We're here for those other things off the field. To help those kids through it. But as far as, trying to having to be somewhere and on time and multiple times and effort, and it's going to be the hardest thing I've ever done athletically. So be prepared for it. And that way, when you get here and it's your fourth week and your body's sore and your brain is sore, and you're talking to mom on the phone, man, this is really hard, mom's going to say, he told you that in the recruiting meeting, Oh yeah, that's right. You'd tell me that. I think. It's especially for young coaches. If I had advice for young coaches, don't, I would stay away from trying to tell them one thing, this is how amazing it's going to be every day and not real, knowing that, Hey, this is going to be hard for them, so I think if they're ready for that, they're ready for the challenge. After all, what kind of kids sign up for the hard things, the confident ones that, that want to do it, no one signs up for that. Marathon, unless you want to do it. That's right, so I think The that's where I would focus my advice if I have any for what it's worth it's fantastic advice and why I started this podcast hoping to get That type of message to more families, because at the end of the day, if you don't understand that your resume doesn't matter when you step on that campus for the first time, everything you've done up to that point doesn't matter. It can't help you anymore. And if you don't come in and say, I don't know anything about baseball because coach Winterberg is going to teach me how to play. Yes, I can swing a bat. I know how to put my glove on. I know how to take ground ball. I know how to throw, but I have to come in understanding that I'm going to learn everything different. I'm going to learn how to study differently. I'm going to learn how to lift differently. I'm going to learn how to run the bases differently. If you don't come in with that mindset, You're setting yourself up for failure. You got to assume that the people you've signed up for know the game differently and know the game better and are going to teach it to you. If you give them that opportunity. Yeah. I don't think there's a loss of identity in team play. There's no loss of identity. No one has any problem recognizing you and knowing who you are. They just don't. And when you're looking at what your impact is going to be as a person, right? It, the more that you fall back in the spiritual furniture of the team, right? And you're able to just absorb all the things the team is trying to do to have a successful minute, right? And you can lose yourself in that process. Then you actually look like the best version of yourself that you've ever looked like. You really perform at this level up here. That's right. That's what ends up happening. So there's no lots of identity. There's a game, right? You've gained an identity because now you have a team identity to go along with an individual identity You don't have to lose your individual identity Over playing being a member of a team, right? But you have to gain the team identity in order to grow. That's right. It's such great advice such a great perspective for kids and parents Understand that. Okay. Come in. You're going to listen 10 times more than you talk. You're going to absorb everything, listen to everything, watch everybody get into that mode. And eventually you're going to find your role in that world. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You're going to find where you're a strength, where there already was strength. You're going to find that you're strengthening that, that chain that, that team. That's right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, this is a competition so you have to be better than someone Yeah, to get in there and a lot of times people cut short that they're you're here It's your first year And you're like, Hey, I'm, I think I'm better than that guy that's playing. Yeah. But that guy's been here two years and he's not playing just because he's a junior. He's playing because you're not hands down better than him. And the coach knows what they're going to get from that junior. So they're willing to have a little more leeway. Or put them in a position where they know they can succeed and roll with that. So the only way to, to climb over that is to be better than that. To be hands down the best option for the team. And if you're not, it's not personal. Hence, that's where your opportunity lies. So when the coach says, hey, you can do a lot better with your bat path. When it's time to go home and the batting cage is to the right and the parking lot's to the left, you better turn right. Go work on that bat path. That's right. Because there's nothing more exciting to a coach and young players. This is this one. There's nothing more exciting to a coach than telling, giving some tips or, but a guy with a swing or with his feeling or whatever shot. And the next day he comes, you come back. That person has improved. And cause you know, you can improve with a bunch of reps in one day. You can, one day, and I always say it's not even the reps. It's the five second decision that you make to do it. That's right. It'd be better. I'm going to be better at this. That five second decision is what got you better, so you gotta, we say you got to turn right a lot in our program. You got to turn right. You can't just turn left and expect to get better. I love it. Yeah. It's the phrase I've been using for kids all the time. I go, I just decided to dot, fill in the blank. What's the next part of that? I just decided to what turn right or turn left, right? Yeah. You might not be able to be an all American today, right now by just choosing it, right? But you can jump down on the floor and bust out 50 pushups. That's right. You can go hit some balls. You can go take some shots. That's right. You can improve your intent with those things. Those are things that are they're easy concepts to understand. Sometimes they're hard to follow through with. The hard part is following through, but they're really easy to understand. We're in a society where we're just really easy and, we're on the phone all day long. So we understand concepts. We think, we're scrolling through and we understand. I understand that. I understand that. Then you say, okay, do it. You can't do it because you don't know it, and you have to, we're still in a place where, the most polished people are the best performers. So you only get that polished by going out there and applying yourself to to earn it. And it, like you said, it starts with five minutes, not five hours, five minutes a day to make your bed, do those 50 pushups, whatever it is. Take 20 swings off of a tee, right? Take 20 ground balls for you. Go home. All of a sudden you've done that five minutes a day, every day. And you're a better ball player. You're there's no doubt. You're a better student. That's a fact. So again, you're preaching what I preach just. Do it, commit to it every day. It doesn't have to be your whole day, but you've got, again this is what you're doing right now. Yeah. And it's not, we're not, I'm not asking you to do anything that you haven't committed to already. If you're not committed to it, don't commit something else. That's right. But don't, the guy that says, you know what? I don't have it in my heart anymore. I'm going to, I don't have time to play baseball. I'm going to, I'm going to focus on school. Talk with my folks. We said, we're going to focus on school. And my first comment is you mean all the guys on our team aren't focused on school. They're all focused on school, all focused on school, all of them. So what they're doing right now is they're in school and they're playing baseball. There is no reason that you can't focus on both. So not focusing on both. So putting that extra time. Is a necessity because that's what you're doing right now because if you were working 40 hours a week and getting paid You'd be putting in extra time. That's right. Try to make sure you're on top of your job Whether that's taking a new certification going on a business trip, you know making a sale Whatever it is that you do going and picking up stuff, and bringing it back to the job site All that extra stuff is extra time and that's how you stay focused on your job and you can't tell me that you're gonna, you're gonna somehow miraculously metamorphosize because you're getting paid, it doesn't happen that way. You're building habits right now that are gonna stick hard. So I would advise you to, make the habit of assess the situation, see what you need to do to improve yourself, and then go do that today. And just do that and put a time limit on it. Go do it for an hour or 30 minutes or 40 minutes, whatever it is. I don't think you can get it done in five, but five is better than zero. But I mean you go down there and you do it and you find a time every day to work on something because Here's the reason this is what you're doing right now. This is what your job is right now. You've chosen this As what you're doing. So do it. Coach, I got to work and I gotta need money for school. So do I, so do I. So does everybody, every single person here has to, has a busy schedule, everybody, and I bet you, I can, the person that's saying I, that I'll bet you, I can find 10 people right now within a, than a mile radius. Or, and within our team that have a harder schedule than you right now. So it's not an excuse. So find that time, people say, I have time, studying, Hey, get up at four 30 in the morning. No classes, no baseball going on, no weightlifting going in, go to bed early on Tuesday night, wake up on Wednesday morning, make that your morning of study every week. You make sure you get to bed, you get ample rest and you set that alarm and you get up and you take a shower or cold plunge or whatever you got to do to be, and now you're raring to go and guess what? You can bang out four and a half hours of homework. And don't feel sorry for yourself while you're doing it. Instead, feel pumped. Like you are, you have discovered the fountain of youth in this endeavor that you're undertaking. This is your holy grail. This is how you get A's. And you've discovered it, and that way you're not running around stressed all the time. You're actually doing what's in front. One of you, you're just going to sleep really well at night, knowing that. So I think those are just, again, I've said this, I know I've repeated it, but I have said in the last few years, if when I asked if I could narrow down our purpose as coaches to me it's helping young people focus on what's in front of them. Truly. That's hard. That's, again, easy concept. People walk away from this say, I get that. That's great. I'm going to write that down really hard to do because we don't do it. There's so many people that we have trouble doing that, but we can learn to focus on what's in front of us. Our lives improve greatly in those areas, so it's, to me, it's that's some, that's a sense of purpose for me. What you called significance. I read that, which is such a powerful word. I thought about that after I read that, how true that is, wow. Great word. I love it. It was taught to me, I had somebody 30 years ago, stand in front of the room with a bunch of young kids and said, take out the word success for your vocabulary and replace it with significance. And she explained why it's stuck with me for years and years, coach. I am. So thankful for you and the time you've given me today, but so thankful of the three years I had with you across the hallway and your friendship and your advice and your wisdom and so proud to call you a friend. Likewise, my friend, likewise. And so proud to see what you continue to do and the lives that you're changing. But thank you so much for giving me this time today. It has been a pure joy. I all I can say is to that is, is anytime you get an opportunity to chat with a friend about things that you love to talk about and things that you have an affinity for and a passion for, you just can't beat it. So I just appreciate the opportunity for having me on here today, Matt and a chance to just sit and visit with you. It's been a, it's been a while and cool. And I'd love catching up with you. That was great. Me too. And for me, I do this because there's so many great unknown gems in our country and you're one of them. The West coast knows you're one of the great coaches in the United States, not just baseball, but across the world and every, in every sport and anybody that's got a chance to watch your teams play or watch your team's practice or compete or watch and listen to you speak, they're going to get better. So thanks for sharing today, coach means a lot. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Well, that's a wrap for this episode of the significant coaching podcast. I'd like to thank my longtime friend and former colleagues, Scott Winterburn head baseball coach at the university of Laverne and Southern California. I greatly miss our daily talks when our offices are right across the hallway from each other. If you are enjoying these conversations, I encourage you to subscribe on the platform of your choice. If you're interested in working with me or scheduling me to speak at your school organization. You can schedule a free strategy session@coachmattrogers.com. Thanks again for listening. Have a significant week. Goodbye until next time.