Episode #46: Alison Crumb

Join us for an inspiring conversation with Coach Alison Crumb, a true embodiment of Significant Coaching. As the head coach of the Peninsula College women's basketball team, Coach Crumb has guided her program to 13 consecutive NWAC Conference Tournament appearances by fostering personal growth and helping her athletes reach their full potential. In this episode, she shares invaluable insights into the transformative opportunities offered by Junior College athletics and why it can be a game-changing choice for many students.

Learn more about Alison Crumb here:  https://www.gopcpirates.com/sports/wbkb/coaches/Alison_Crumb

Transcript

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In this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, I had the pleasure of sitting down with head women's basketball coach Allison Crum from the Peninsula College in Port Angeles, Washington. Coach is in her 15th season at Peninsula where her teams have qualified for 13 straight Northwest Athletic Conference Championship tournaments. We had a great conversation about her becoming a head college coach at the young age of 24, after a great college playing career. I have so much respect for her down to earth coaching style and her great humility with her focus on building long lasting relationships with her players. For those of you interested in learning more about the world of junior college athletics, This is one episode you won't want to miss. If you're enjoying these conversations, I encourage you to subscribe on your platform of choice and leave me a comment with your thoughts and questions. You can also always learn more and schedule with me at CoachMattRogers. com when you want more information. Alright, let's get to it. Here's my conversation with Coach Allison. Coach crumb. You have just had an amazing run here. It's been fun to watch and fun to learn about you. I want to go back a little bit? How did you get into coaching? I know you're one heck of a player. How did you make that transition from player to coach? Yeah. Um, I finished, I went and transferred, um, From peninsula to Western Oregon and my old peninsula college coach, Julie Stewart actually called me, it was a couple of days after my last game and was like, what are you doing next year? I'm like, I have zero idea. Like, I don't know what I'm going to do. You know, it was really. I was really kind of going through a crisis of what am I going to be without basketball? And so it just kind of, I think she got me in a vulnerable time. And so I was like, okay, yeah, I'll come back. I can, you know, I can live with my parents and pay off some student loans and do that thing. And then she left after a year and, you know, I, they, I was fortunate enough to get an opportunity to take over the program. And I had no idea what I was doing, but I was like, I can't pass this up. You know, this just seems kind of. Strange enough that, uh, it, it should, it should happen. So I took over and I've been there ever since. It's kind of crazy. That's great. You were just a baby too. Yeah. It was 24, 24. Yeah. I got my first gig at 26 and I thought I was so over my head. I learned so much in that first year. I was so clueless. Yeah. Um, and you know, you're just going off instinct and kind of like what you took from like the good coaches that you had and try and get some help around you that can like give you any guidance, but you're just shooting from the hip and you have no idea how to recruit and you're just like, well, that is happening, but I think I w I think they knew I was competitive enough that I would figure it out. Right. I think that's, that's often what. Administrators fall back on as they go. We're going to find that person that's one or as a competitive spirit or, you know, has never failed or, you know, always have overcome, we're going to give that person a shot and I've been talking to a lot of university presidents and ADs about this, I go, what are we doing to coach the coaches? Are we giving these coaches any orientation? Are we giving them any templates? Are we meeting with them and giving them any advice? You know, nobody really did that for me. There wasn't anybody at my university that really knew how heck they turned around at a year later and gave me the ad job, you know, so it's like, all right, I'll figure it out. Yeah. It's weird. You don't get a lot. Um, but there is a lot of people who are so passionate about sports and even past coaches that aren't coaching that just love talking about coaching. It's such an important part of their life. So, you know, for me, I just started getting on the phone and just calling any person that I knew. I'm like, what do I do? Like, can you send me a couple of practice plans, like some workouts, just things that I could maybe start from. And then, you know, you, so much of it is just figuring your team out. And then you. Then you kind of go from there. So I know this goes back a long time, but what are some of those lessons you took from some of those coaching mentors? Are there things that really still stick in your, your craw all these years later that were good lessons and good advice? Well, I had, you know, my, my old high school coach, Mike Knowles, um, he actually still helps me. He's one of my assistants and that's been such a, um, such an incredible blessing for me is just he, what I think was great for about him is he never gave me any one specific advice. But he was, he would ask me questions like, are you sure you want to do this? Or have you thought about doing this? And so he kind of like let me get there on my own. And then whatever I decided, he supported. He's like, my job is not to tell you what to do. My job is to make you feel supported in what you think you should do. And you just got to run with it. And I think the one thing that he taught me growing up in high school, playing for him is just like practice has got to be competitive. It's got to be. challenging. It's got to be hard and fun, but at the same time, like super competitive. So I just kind of took a lot of that from him. You know, we didn't, even now we don't run a lot of our, sit down and run of a lot of our sets just over and over and over again. We just try and find the most competitive drills and keep it going. And If we'll sometimes in practice, I'll be like, no, I don't want to do that. Cause like the energy and the competition so high, I'm like, I don't want to slow it back and like work on slower moves or something, you know, obviously we need to get, have those times and those, um, parts of practice, but if we can keep a practice competitive for, for 120 minutes, like that's gold. So he just, he really pushed me towards that. And. He, you know, he's been supporting me in that role, like ever since just, yeah, so fantastic. My, my first assistant coach, when I was a head college coach for the first time was a 65 year old retired higher high school coach. I don't know if I would have survived those first three years without him for me. I haven't survived a single year without my, my staff, because for one, like all of my, my, my head assistants, like right now, my associate head coach, she was a former player of mine, um, Jesse Ellis before that was a former player of mine, Danica Johnson before that was a former player of mine, you know, I've had so many coaches that were kind of, you know, I've known as a player and then as a person like they just kind of help talk you off a cliff because they know you so well it's not, you know, it's, I rarely pick a someone to help support me just strictly on their basketball knowledge it's kind of like relationship like can, can we keep this family together forever. And can we support each other because it's such an emotionally taxing job to be someone's like kind of everything, you know, in high school, you have your parents and your, and your support system, but in college, especially our teams travel from all over the country. They don't have a support system except for their team and except for the coach. And we try and take that role on, at a high level, but it's taxing because you learn things about these players that. Are, you know, tough and you see what they're going through and then you also they disappoint you sometimes and but it feels more like of a parental disappointment than just a coach and then it's it's an impossible to not take that home with you or to not like feel it. throughout every single day. So if you have a coach that just gets that and can support that part of it and just say, Hey, you know, you're good. Or, or this, this person's good or help kind of support the players too, when they don't want to come to you. That's, that's everything. I could never do this job by myself ever. I'm with you. I'm with you. The years I struggled was always when I had an assistant coach that was part time or somebody I just, I had to hire because I didn't have any, any former players or didn't have anybody that was really, I was really close to. And I always struggled those years. I get it. Talk a little bit about relationship building. Do you have an approach that you take with your girls in terms of. I should say your women and, and how, how you, how you build that culture and how you build your relationships. Is there something that you talk to them early on about, about? Yeah. I mean, we talked to them day one about it, this just being bigger than. Playing basketball. You know, this is about learning how to overcome adversity, learning how to trust people that you don't know and how to lean on them, you know, and how to support people that maybe you don't like every single day. And we really, I mean, we talked about that every single day, but also just for me, I think I enjoy being around team dynamics. It's really why I got into coaching. I like basketball, but I love being a part of a team, you know, so my love is more of, you know, In the, in the group dynamic, like trying to get something out of somebody and using basketball as a tool. So I get to know the kids really early on, you know, we, we do a lot of things that just get them out of the court so that I can understand their personality, their humor, you know, where, where they come from, we just make that a really intentional in those first couple of weeks to where I feel like I have some rapport with them to where I can sit them down and say, Hey, what's going on. And, and try and just pay attention to the individual person that's walking around your campus. That is a big part of what we do. And, and we tell our players, like, you will, you will be treated well here. You may not always feel like it's fair, or you may not always feel like you're getting out of it, what you're putting into it. That's normal, but you're going to be treated well. Well, in the sense we're going to help support you to understand how to get through that or find you resources. If you need something else and, and just try and make it more relational than just play your coach. Cause to me, I just, I've never been, even when I teach a class, like I asked the kids every single day, how, how was your weekend? What'd you guys do? Like, I just want to get to know these young people that are, that I have to work with every day, because it really isn't like I'm their boss. It's, it's just more like I'm kind of driving the bus, but we're all on it going in the same destination. And I need your help to get there and they need mine. So. We, we just try and really start from the, from the beginning about who are these people and, and I let them know who I am. I tell them a lot about myself. I, I, my kids around them all the time. My husband's around, you know, my friends come on walks with them with their kids. Like I want them to see me as a human being and not just this person that's telling them to close out correctly every single time, you know, I want them to see me as someone that's just bigger than that. Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's, it's a, it's a great sign of success and it's the epitome of why you're doing so well and why you continue to do so well, your kids are, obviously they see you as a parental figure. They see you as somebody they can trust. And when you've built that, it's amazing what happens in the day to day and getting them to find that level that they probably weren't sure they could get to. Yeah, I think the risk is that it becomes, you're gonna fight more like a family than you are if you just keep it strictly basketball. Hey, show up on time, do what you're supposed to do, run if you get in trouble, and you know, you're golden otherwise. Best players play, people who, who don't, you know, they support and you kind of move on. You know, for me, when I try and develop these relationships, sometimes, you know, we don't see eye to eye, whether it's plain time or, um, you know, whether the punishment was fair or whatever. And so you really have to be prepared that if you're going to treat them like a family, when it's good, you can, you gotta, you gotta figure it out when it's bad. Cause you're setting yourself up to like, be this person's lifeline. And sometimes they're going to be disappointed. They're going to say, Hey, I, you know. Hey, I thought we had a good thing going on. Why am I only playing five minutes? Like what's going on? And you got to be willing to step into that role where it's like, hey, we got to figure this out because And, you know, in some ways I talked to my staff, I'm like, man, if we just didn't, if we just didn't give a shit, it'd be a lot better. You know, if we just showed up and cared about basketball, then we wouldn't care. And we wouldn't lose sleep over, Oh, this person's struggling or this person is kind of unhappy. You can tell. And, um, or this person's a little jealous, like, because we notice and we pay attention to it and we talk about it. We're like losing sleep over these, these 18, 19 year olds. And you've got to fix it. You can't let it just linger. So it takes a little extra work. It takes a little extra time. Um, definitely. I know what we've shed a lot of tears in my office, just with other players and in the court. But for me, that's just the only way I know how to do it. Yeah, I was the same way. Yeah, it was, it was, I was all in, I was all in or nothing. And I didn't want to coach any other way. You know, you're, you're, you're taking a chance on these kids, but they're taking a huge chance on you. And the parents are taking a huge chance on you. And, and, uh, if you're, if you don't take that seriously, you're probably in the wrong profession. I I'm, I'm interested. I'm always so darn impressed coach with two year coaches, because. As a four year coach, my mentality always was I'm going to bring a kid in and it's probably going to take me 18 months. To teach him how to play man to man defense, how to be consistent in everything they do, how, how to really build a work ethic, how to teach them how to play our way. And then I would have two and a half years, you know, to really grow them and get them where they could shine. You don't have that luxury. So what's your approach to player development? You know, how, how do you get these kids to figure it out so quickly, what you want them to do? I mean, I, Honestly, I'm always so impressed with how they do figure it out. Um, I don't think I would coach them as hard or as I would say like we, for one, our playbook is a lot smaller, right? Like system wise, you've got to just kind of pick a couple of things and do it really well, right? Because you don't have time to get everybody ready in December to actually step foot on the floor. And you don't have enough people in your program that can show them. But for me, it's like if I simplify what they're doing, and if I'm really consistent in what we want to be good at, and we just focus on that in practice, yeah, we'll focus on the other things because they're important, but they're not as important. And I structure my two hour practice where these Three things that we want to be really good at. We do over and over and over again. I feel like at least we can develop an identity by November. We're probably not going to be good at it in November, but we know where we can get them to a point where they know when they've made a mistake. Right. That, and that's the hardest part. It's like in October, they're like, wait, what'd I do? And I'm like, oh man, we got to keep. Keep doing this. And then by November, they're like, Oh, I didn't do this. And they're still not doing it right. But at least they're starting to know. And then really, it takes them like four or five games of like real, you know, real consequence, because it's high risk where they're like, Okay, now I got to figure this out and practice because I'm tired of this crazy lady pulling me out for the same damn thing. And I didn't believe her. And now I'm like, oh, well, whatever. I'm just going to, I'm just going to do what she says, whether I play. And then they, you know, they have like a two weeks of practice where they actually are intentional at trying to get better at what you've, what you've been telling them is important. And then they figure it out, you know? And the cool thing is at least at Juco, like everybody is kind of dealing with the same thing. You're going to get, you know, some simplified actions, some teams that do just, you know, three, four things really well, but on the other token, like these kids are getting to play and I don't think you grow as much as you do when it's really important, you know, like I'm failing at this. In a game with my parents watching now, I need to fix it versus, I don't know if I had a freshman who didn't play for 18 months, who would get as good as those first, like six games of their freshman year. It's kind of like shock therapy. Yeah. So, I mean, I kind of use that in a recruiting world because we'll, we'll recruit kids that have four year opportunities. And I, you know, I hate to, you know, Tell four year coaches, like, I'm trying to take your kid, but it's like, the only thing I can tell them is like, you are going to get to play and learn on the court in real game time, you know, in a couple months. In a couple months, you're going to be playing in a college basketball game. And for some people, they're like, no, I don't, you know, I want to be in this four year program. But for other kids, they're like, okay, yeah, put me out there. Let's, let's, let's figure it out. And so. You know, while it does take a little bit longer, I feel like I send them off into the world right when I've got them where I want them and you got to start fresh, uh, with a bunch of puppies that don't, are not trained and do not know what you're talking about. Uh, but it kind of, it's that, like, I think I'm just a type of person. I think it fits my personality, I guess, is what I'm saying is like, I'm a. Perpetual procrastinator. Like we're gonna just, now I just have, I only have eight weeks to get them to where they need to be. Okay. Pressure's on like, boom, let's go. Let's go. Let's go. We have games that these people can barely dribble with their left hand. We got to figure it out. And so I think that sense of urgency kind of motivates me. It fits a little bit with my personality and that constant turnover is exciting, I guess. I hate it cause I'm, I've got, I'll have kids all over. The country that I'm missing their games and I'm missing be a part of their lives. But the, the turnover is like, you don't have time. Yeah. You just, Oh, well, we gotta, we got this new person here. We got to figure it out. So it's an exciting way to coach. I think if I go back into coaching at the college level again, that's where I want to be. I want to be at the juco level. Cause I, I love the fact that you're, you're always recruiting kids. That have to step in and produce right away. You're always recruiting somebody with the idea of what we need you You know, you're you're not coming into redshirt. You're not coming into weight. You're not sitting behind a couple seniors We need you to come in and that's got to be a great way to recruit it is it's not for everybody because you know There's just some people like the security of knowing where they're starting and where they're going to finish but You know, if there are people like me, that was kind of like, I don't know what I'm doing next year, but I don't want to play. It's like, okay, well, I know I can give you that. And I don't know what you're going to be doing in two years, but it doesn't seem like you thrive on knowing you kind of thrive on the unknown. So let's, let's do something interesting and see if we can make it work. And so I, I try and recruit some like minded individuals and, you know, We're all just a band of weirdos at the end of the day, just trying to keep the wheels on. That's right. I always joke to kids and to coaches. I, I tend to recruit myself. You know, those characteristics that I really loved about my game that I appreciate about the sport itself. If I see a kid that just digs in and loves to defend and loves to get up in the ball handler and be physical. Man, I, even if they shoot it like, you know, off their elbow and they're, they're a mess shooting the ball. I still get excited about that kid. Cause it's so hard to find, right? They're super hard to find. And I think for me, the hardest thing to find is like a kid who really loves basketball and playing basketball for the right reasons. Like basketball. Yes. But then like, it's also, you got to love being a part of a team and you got to love that sacrifice and kind of that unique, like kind of sorority type thing. Like you, you belong to a unique club. Like, do you love that part of it? Do you love that responsibility that comes with it? Do you love like missing social events to go to try cities and play a team basketball game? And like the highlight of your weekend might be eating at red Robin. Like if you love that. Then you'll love playing college basketball. And if you love playing basketball, you love playing college basketball. But so many kids, I think, because being an athlete makes your life socially easier growing up. Right. I'm kind of more friends. You tend to be a little bit more outgoing. You have this kind of band of people that can you know. Get you through the awkward years and maybe it made you a little popular. And so you don't really know that maybe you like basketball cause it made your life easier during adolescence. Right. But if you were to pair all that, cause once you go to college, no one cares, there's not clicks, there's not pep rallies. There's not any of those things, especially at our level, you know, it's just, it's the four walls, the ball. And your teammates and nobody in the stands is going to know who you are. They're all from Port Angeles. They've never, they've never even been to Australia. They have no idea who you are. So no one's watching you is going to care about your personality. They just want to watch good basketball. And if you got into it because it made your life a little bit better. You're going to be really disappointed in September when nobody cares that you're a women's basketball player, except for the people in our room, you know, we care, but that's not why we're doing it. So the hardest thing for me is to try and figure out a kid in high school who loves basketball and loves being a part of a team, or just really likes the social element of being part of something that kind of helps them have an identity. You know, that's, that's the hardest thing because that's so important when you're young, you know, you're 13, 14, you want to belong to something and you want to believe in something and maybe sports gave that to you. But if you take that away is, is what's left, what you really like. I don't know. I always, I always find a couple of people where I'm like, I don't think you love basketball. That's right. Every year. It's more and more. And I think by the end of it, they're like, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I think I just want to go and go to school and, you know, I did my time. I'm like, yeah, you did. And I'm finding it's more and more kids are like that. They, there is the love. And I don't know why that is. I don't know if it's the specialization. I don't know if it was COVID. I don't know what it is. I think it's a lot of things. Yeah. I, I I'm finding myself preaching to kids. And I made this such at the forefront of the book I wrote on recruiting, how it's so much more important to continue to play the sport you love. than where you play it. You know, if you really love the game, it shouldn't matter what, what the name is across your, your Jersey. It's about the, that opportunity to keep being a part of a team, keep being a part of that thing. That's bigger than yourself, continue wanting to get better and have a chance at winning a championship. Are you finding that's getting harder and harder to sell? Um, no, but I think I have to be talking to the right person. I think it's harder to find the person, but when you find that person that does want, I think there's a lot of athletes that do want those things. They just want to play. They want to be a part of something bigger than themselves. They want to be support. They just want to have a good experience and they want to continue to play the game. I think. Are there more players than there used to be that are kind of, well, I want to go Division 1, or I want to go Division 2, or I want to play at a 4 year, or I want to, yeah, but I think, you know, I think I could, I could figure those out pretty early on in recruiting. Anyways, and I just try and not spend a lot of time with those students, you know, cause for one, they don't want to play for me and I don't want to actively spend my time recruiting people who don't want to be recruited. And for two, I don't think they'd be happy here. Yeah. I'm intrigued by that coach. Let's, let's jump into recruiting. How do you start figuring some of that out? So you're not wasting your time chasing a kid for six to eight months. when it's obvious they're not going to end up at a two year. What are those, what are some of those things you're looking at to kind of determine pretty quickly, this is a kid I need to invest time into and this is a kid I need to move on from? Well, the good thing with being old now and starting at 24 is I can usually tell within the first five minutes of like tone, the questions they ask, like whether, They're just like, yeah, yeah. That sounds good. Yeah. And you're just like, okay, I'm pulling teeth here. Let's wrap this up because this, or like how many I'll ask them, how many schools are you talking to? And they'll say, oh, I'm talking to this school and this school and this school. And if I say, well, you know, how does, what do you think about peninsula? They're like, yeah, it's good. Then, you know, you just kind of move on. I can kind of tell that a kid is just, Not interested in what I'm saying and and so I just move on. Yeah, I think you got to cast a big net I have enough people now, I think that I've That have either sent me players or past players, coaches that I can reach out to where they know the type of kid that I'm looking for and they can give me a heads up like, Hey, I think this kid really should go JUCO, but they don't want to. So you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to like sell it. And I think if you can sell it, then they'll probably want to play for you. Or they'll tell me, like, they'll give me the backstory on like where this kids hang up is, or I'll just call them and say, no, they're not going to go Juco. They should, but they're not going to. So don't waste your time. So for me, I just try and. Do some checks and balances ahead of time before I get on the phone with someone and, and then we'll make it work. We also just, we're remote college. We take a lot of players that are super remote and we take a lot of players that aren't getting heavily recruited for whatever reason. I mean, two of my best players this year, I saw at a tournament in California and they were talking to like one other Juco. And, you know, they were first team all league last year and, and, and MVP of the region and are getting division two and low division one looks right now. They just, nobody knew who they were. Nobody knew who they were. Nobody knew. And nobody was watching this like little Hawaiian team play in this major tournament where there's all these big programs. And so I try and not go like when I'm recruiting, I don't go to the major program games. Because I know I'm probably not going to get like an FOH kid or a Tree of Hope or whatever, maybe, every once in a while, but I'm going to try and find those like, uh, teams that are playing that are, you know, one team from a local high school that, you know, just has some kids and I'll try and check them out and see if I can find someone that no one else is looking at. You've, you've learned over the years, what works and what doesn't work and where your success rates are. And I mean, when I was young, I would go to all the big games and I'd sit there and I'm sitting next to me and it's like Stanford, South Carolina, Notre Dame. And I'm like, Oh yeah, this is a great game. And then after a year, I'm like, you are not in the right gym. Like get out of here. You were awake. Yeah. It's good basketball. But like, why are you taking notes? These people are not going to talk to you. That's right. I need to go about four gyms over and that's where I will be for the rest of the time, right? Well, there's so many kids that have no idea where to start. They just think mom and dad are spending five grand a year for me to play travel ball. Something good is going to come out of it. You know, the club coach told me we're going to be visible. Well, that means nothing. You know, not in a, not in a facility with 50 basketball courts, you know, and you know, I think it's hard. It's hard. The hardest thing in recruiting is to be honest. Yeah. But sometimes I feel like if I can develop a relationship, I might be able to do that. But you know, a lot of AU coaches are great at what they do, but at the same time, they need to They need to fill rosters and they need to be able to pay for their organization, pay for these trips. That's right. So they're not necessarily going to tell you like, yeah, there's going to be 50 college coaches watching your game, but they're going to be watching your two teammates. They're not watching you, you know? And so they kind of get this weird idea like, oh, wow, there's all these coaches and they're watching me. And I'm like, no, they're not. They're not watching you. They're watching your teammates and You know, you kind of have to wait a little bit. You wait like a month and then when they don't get a couple of calls, then you kind of swoop in and you're like, Hey, I saw you at that tournament. You know, how are things going? And, you know, they kind of come back down to reality because I think, yeah, I think, I think kids have a little, they just don't know where they fit in, you know, and they don't, they can't, they're so in the thick of it, they can't see the separation. That's right. That's, that's the, that's the hardest part. It really is. And, and trying to coach them through that, to understand that, that, you know, there's a place out there for you. And, and if you're smart with learning about other schools and talking to lots of coaches and trying to figure out what you like and what you don't like, and really listening, you know, does this coach really like you? Did they see you as a difference maker or they just, they see you as a potential body or you just another number on their list. You know, you're a tier three kid and they're, they're really having great conversations with their tier one kids. So getting kids to understand that just got to listen to everybody. You got to have a conversation, you know, and if you're not, if you're not showing your enthusiasm with every coach, you're, you're breaking a relationship before it starts. Right. Right. And I think, um, you know, I don't, it's just kind of. When you step on the floor day one, what you care about is not what you cared about in recruiting. You cared about how much money you were going to get. You cared about how big the school was. You cared whether you could put on social media that you got a division one offer. But I'm going to tell you when you step off. Number day one on the court with your basketball shoes and you don't feel valued and you don't feel like you really are mean anything to that program. And then you, you're going, you're not traveling cause they don't travel red shirts. And you know, you're not seeing the same specialists as everyone else. And they barely talk to you because you're about six assistants removed. And All of a sudden you start thinking about transferring, you're just, but you don't know where to go or what to do. And it's all because you, you, you wanted to get recruited for the things that you don't value on a day to day basis and what makes you happy on a day to day basis. It's like, do you like your teammates? Do you like your coach? Do you feel like you're winning? Winning solves a lot of problems. Do you feel like you're going to make an impact on the team? Do you feel like you're treated as an equal, even if the minutes aren't distributed equally? Do you feel like you're getting a good education? Does the school care about women's basketball? Because let's be honest, there's a million that don't. That's right. Do they, do they think you're important? Are you important? Professors interested in what you're doing is the community coming in and supporting you the way that you should be supported or those things. That is what's going to make or break your experience. But you can't put that all on a social media post. No. So just make sure, you know, I always tell athletes, just. Even my kids who are being recruited, I'm like, just make sure that the place you're going to is you're choosing that place because that's, what's going to make you happy day one when you step into the gym. And if you get paid a little bit more money to go there, great. But if it's Only about the money and you're not going to be thinking about the money on your 10th day of practice, then you got to make some, you got to make a priority list. And if you have a great connection with this coach and they want you and you just love it, but they're, you know, they're paying you to do it. 5, 000 less. I always tell my players, I'm like, you can find 5, 000. I'll help you find a scholarship. We can find it. Go to that school. And they're like, Oh, I know, but my parents. And I'm like, tell your parents, you'll figure out the money. Tell your parents, you'll get a second job, go to the school that you're going to be happy with because that's where you're going to finish. You go to the school, you're not going to be happy. Then you're going to be, you're going to be, you're going to quit in one year. Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's great advice. A lot of parents, high school coaches and prospects listen to this podcast coach. I want them to kind of hear how your brain works. I'm going to put you on the sideline where we've been talking about. What are some of those skills or qualities that you're looking for when you're watching players? What are those things that just kind of, man, they just grab your attention and you can't let go of it. I mean. When I see a free, here's what I will do. First free throw of the game. I hate AAU tournaments that don't have free throws, by the way. I agree. I watch to see what people are doing in that 10, 15 seconds where they can interact with their teammate or their coach. And when I see a kid look over at their teammate and they're like, Hey, you got this person. Okay, cool. Or even better yet, make a switch. Hey, no, I'll take her. Or, hey, we're in motion, or we're in this. Or if I see someone after the, after that play on the free throw, like someone's down and they go up to their teammate and they just pat him on the back and say, hey, you're good. Like, that's the kind of stuff I look for because you can't teach it and you want to teach it so bad. You're every single day, you're like, come on, like, this is a free time out. Go talk to your teammate, go do this. And. And we're trying to get our players to do that every day. If I can see a high school kid doing that already. I'm like, Oh my gosh, that is a dream. Like just joy. That's just pure. Cause you can tell that kid is just dialed in. They're focused. They're worried about the next play. They're trying to do everything they can to make their team be, you know, in the, in the best situation possible. And they're listening to their coach or asking their coach, Hey, what defense are we on? Like, or I'll see a kid for that 15 seconds. Just. Hands on their hips, just staring head down. And I'm like, Oh, this person is either pissed off, checked out, or just kind of on their own. They just play on their own. And, and I, so I watch, I watch free throws. I watch things like that. I see how excited people get for their teammates, whether they're running to help them up or. You know how quickly they run off the court and give their teammate a high five what their body language is on the bench Those types of things, you know at our level you have to overlook some of it But i'll spend my entire two years trying to coach them into that part of it so if it's like if they already have it, then that's something that's Just less work than I have to do, because every coach will try and make it important. So you either make it important at 16 and get yourself recruited, or you're going to spend four years in college with someone who's really old and really grumpy, telling you to make it important. And you're just going to, you're going to butt heads for four years. So just figure it out now. Like you've got to have good body language. You've got to be approachable to your teammates. You have to be a selfless player. Sometimes you gotta be selfish at times when your team needs you to, but it's what your team needs. Figure it out, do it early. So you don't just piss people off the entire time you're on a college roster. Like just figure it out. It's, it's what every coach values. It all equals love of the game at the end of the day. And just the love of winning. Like the deal I get fired. If you guys all suck. I hate to be like, put it simply like that, but like my livelihood, like paying for my bills and taking care of my family is more important than your attitude. Like, and especially at the next level, you talk about division one, division two, these people are, they're, they're coaching for their lives. They're, they're trying to win basketball games and they wouldn't tell you it was important if it didn't help winning. If it was just a nice thing to look at, but it didn't help any, no one would care, but every coach says body language matters. Every coach says being a good teammate matters and how you treat each other and how hard you work, because it helps you win. And these coaches need to win to keep their jobs. So you we're not making it up. It's not like some conspiracy theory that we've all got together and said, Hey, let's tell kids that being a good teammate is the number one thing, even though it doesn't help anyone. Be better and it doesn't help you win basketball games, but let's just trick them. It's like, no, we all know helps you win games. We want to win games just as much as anybody else. So just help us win. Yeah. Well, you've talked about it for 40 minutes now, how much you love the relationships and being on the floor with the kids and being able to be progressive in your, your coaching and their learning. And when you got a kid that's got a bad attitude, you already know that's going to stall. and paralyze everything you want to do to find joy in your program that leads to winning. Yeah. So why would I recruit you? Why would I recruit you If you're six foot one and you, you're a great ball player, but you have a terrible attitude, you're only gonna hurt us for sure. That's right. I mean, or if, because you just have had so many in your program too, you just realize, like, for me, it's like, okay, I can figure out a way to get other players to buy in without your help. Okay, cool. Congratulations. I'm, I'm good at doing my job, but it's going to paralyze you for the rest of your life. Thank you. Yeah, that's it. You need to figure it out so that we can have more success. But also you need to figure it out before you just become a 40 year old that people don't like to work with because you can't. You know, you can't seem to get along or support a bigger message, and that is going to make it very difficult to you for you to move up in companies for you to get. So just like, let me help you break down that barrier because it's up for some reason. And if I can help you bring it down as you're not just going to help our team, you're going to help your life. And that's what it's about. It's amazing to me how many parents thank me for that when I say that to their child directly. Because they'll, the parents will come back and say, we've been trying to get that through to them and they needed to hear it from somebody besides us. You know, it's not always, it's not always a parental mistake or an issue. A kid, a kid just figured this, this is how it's needs to be on their own. And they didn't realize how much they're hurting, not the next one or two years, but like you said, the next 10, 20 years, figure it out now, right? Yeah, and it's, and it's hard. It takes practice because everyone has these like weird personality things because of a defense mechanism in some way, shape, or form. So you have to identify why you're, what you're scared of losing, what you're scared of facing. What, you know, why, why is this like frontward facing coming out as like, just. a bad attitude, because most kids don't, don't really just not care. They actually do care a lot. It's just how they present to the, to their peers. And it's, so it's trying to figure out like, what are you afraid of? What is, what is this accomplishing for you? And, you know, It takes a couple of conversations to get there, but if you can have it and they start to identify like, Oh yeah, I'm just, I'm afraid of making mistakes. I'm afraid of people seeing me and vulnerable. I'm afraid of caring about something bigger than me because what if it doesn't work and I get hurt? You know, these are the conversations that you end up having that are like, okay, so now I see why you do that. Okay. So let's figure out this so that you can stop doing that. And that'll. You know, over time, maybe you'll be less scared of failing and less scared of looking vulnerable and you'll, you know, just gain real confidence. That's right. And a lot of kids will tell me, well, my high school coach doesn't seem to care. There's not, there's no energy. There's none of this, you know, they don't motivate us. So that, that body language you see out of me, it's, it's because I'm frustrated that we're not getting out of the coach. And I always tell kids, then you've got to be the remote, the role model that you wish somebody would be for you, you've got to be the teammate, the leader that you wish somebody would have shown you. And if you can, if we can get that through their heads, it doesn't matter what's going on around you, you have the ability to control you. Right. Oh, for sure. I mean, they shouldn't have to. So I sympathize with kids. I agree in that, in that role or in that situation. I don't always necessarily believe everything they say, but if they are in that situation, I'm like, oh yeah, that's terrible. But at the same time, like, You're going to have bad bosses every once in a while. You're going to have, you know, you're going to have bad professors. You're going to have you just it's life. Basketball is life. I know people say that in a lot of like corny ways, but you have to figure out how to survive and advance like. That move forward with your integrity and, and what you believe in. And if you can do that in a bad situation, you're only going to thrive in a good one. Yeah. Coach, give me, give me the one big challenge that you face as a college coach, and then maybe the one joy that makes you want to get up in the morning as a college coach. Challenge driving. Honestly, it is. I, as I got, when I was younger, I loved it. I loved the travel. I loved the recruiting and it was just so exciting as I get older. I have to kind of psych myself up for a little bit more. Cause I am spending time away from my family and I'm not as young as I used to be sleeping. Didn't have a three year old back then. Yeah. I like my own bed and I like to, you know, I Have my weekends, but so that would be the really the only downside. Um, and you know, there are some nights that I lose sleep over, you know, that I know I wouldn't if I just worked in nine to five and got a paycheck and whatever, but. I think that leads into the positive of just, I don't feel like there's anyone who does anything more important than what I do. And I know that sounds really conceited and really delusional because there's like surgeons and, um, you know, first responders and people in the military that are just doing fantastic things. But like I wake up every day and I feel I feel the stress and the importance of that day. And for me, it's It motivates me. If I didn't, I'd probably be a really terrible worker. I'm, you know, if I don't have passion in what I'm doing, I'm not very good at it. You can ask my boss. I'm really terrible at answering emails or like showing up to boring meetings and paying attention. But like when it comes to basketball, I'm like, this is the most important job that I will ever do. And I feel that every single day. And so like, I just kind of I can't fail at it because then I'm just disappointing too many people and too many kids and I'll take it home with me. Yeah, but I just I probably would be unemployed if I wasn't coaching because I'm not that good at that many things. We are kindred spirits. Yeah. I think you just described me in about 10 different ways. Exactly. I appreciate you and I'm with you there. Um, what's one piece of significant advice and it doesn't have to be basketball related. What's one piece of significant advice you can share with my audience. That maybe someone shared with you in the past or something. Well, I've been just reading a lot about talent, and so maybe this is just on the forefront of my mind. I haven't necessarily had anyone tell me about it, but I, I want my players to understand that what they have is a talent and if they can do it for as long as possible, it really is kind of. An unnoticed skill, but I don't think that there's anything more a young person can do at the age of 12 or 13, at least that you can prove to me where you're using more synapses, more engagement, like you're thinking on the fly, you're solving problems on the fly, you're communicating on the fly, you're moving your body, you're emotionally invested, you're going to get a score immediately, you know, you don't have time to downplay. You know how you did on a test and get the results later. You're going to get it right away. You're going to fail in front of a bunch of people and you have to deal with it and in a super quick and, um, uh, like impressive way almost to just keep it moving. There's nothing that prepares you for just real world skill. And kind of thriving and chaos and like uses your brain more than maybe being in like an active surgery, but like other than that, like what you're doing for two hours is super talented, like even if you're not. Making your shots, like just moving and thinking and then having to change what you just did on the exact next play because you did it wrong and then having to communicate that to your teammate and then having to like constantly on the fly, make these decisions. You're just making decisions over and over and over again. Like it is. Such a talent that people do, and it's, it's academically talented, like there's not a, there's not a subject that you do that teaches you all those critical thinking things that you're doing. So like. If you're doing it, it's not a waste of time. If someone told you you're just playing a sport, tell them to go kick rocks because what they do and what you do is totally different. And I find athletes, especially team athletes of any sport. Supremely talented and very capable of being like real world assets during and after their sports. So like parents, kids, your kids are incredibly talented I just mean their brain is super talented and just remember that it's not a, it's not a hobby. It's a skill that you're doing every single day that you can take into the real world. And usually these people thrive because they're conditioned to, and they're incredibly smart. I love it. I just love it. I. I've thought about what you've just said in so many different ways. I feel like I'm, I'm really good on a highway, driving a car because of being a basketball player, to be able to adapt and see things happen four or five steps ahead. And, you know, I, my son and I saw an accident right in front of us the other day, and I was able to react and four or five cars hit each other. And I was able to get us out of the way. And it all comes back to being a basketball player and, and having to adapt to defenses and being trapped and having to go really, really fast to make 10 decisions in a second in. So I love that in a second. And like I watch even my, I, well, I love the people in my life, but I, I could watch anyone in my family walk through the house and take care of 10% of what I take care of in five minutes. That's right. And I can do it like talk about like. Prepping you for motherhood. Like I can do so many things in 10 minutes that I look at my husband. Sometimes I'm like, what did you just do? But I can literally have this house in shape ready for us all to leave. And everything is accounted for in 10 minutes. Cause my brain is capable of, of like responding to that kind of stress. It's super fun. Like un under pressure, you know? I can, I can handle it. I know you gotta go teach a class coach. So thank you so much for your time. No, thank you. And your fun and your wisdom. It was a blast. you've got a huge fan in me. Anything I can do for you, if you ever need a player, you call me and, um, I could. Talk their ear off about how great of experience they're going to have for you just within an hour talking to you. So I know I can probably talk to you for five. We're just geeks. We are. That's why I do this because that's what I miss. Yeah, we're just nerds. So if I get up into your neck of the woods, if you'll let me, I'm going to come to a practice. Come on in. Yeah, coach. Good luck. I know you're right around the corner. We'll be cheering with you. Enjoy that little one. And, uh, we'll talk soon. Okay. Take care, Matt. Well, that's a wrap for this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast. I'd like to thank coach Allison Crum for a very fun conversation on coaching, recruiting, and player development. It's obvious to me why she's become one of the best coaches in her division. If you're enjoying these conversations, please click that subscribe and like buttons. If you're interested in working with me or scheduling me to speak at your school organization, you can schedule a free strategy session at CoachMattRogers. com. Thanks again for listening. Have a significant week. Goodbye until next time.