Episode #42: Jarren Dyson

Jarren Dyson is the Assistant Men's Basketball Coach at Army where he joined the West Point Men’s Basketball coaching staff in June 2023.

Prior to West Point, he spent five years at Lafayette College where he helped lead Lafayette to back-to-back winning seasons for the first time in 20 years. They won the 2020-2021 Patriot League Central Division Championship. Serving as the Recruiting Coordinator, he helped recruit and develop three Patriot League All Rookie selections, a Patriot League Rookie of the Year and five All Patriot League Selections. He was involved in player development with perimeter players and with student-athlete academics. He was also tasked with managing administrative duties and the day-to-day operations of the program.  He also served as program director for Lafayette's Elite Camp for two seasons.

Learn more about Jarren Dyson here:  https://goarmywestpoint.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/jarren-dyson/2048

Transcript

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In this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, I had the great pleasure of sitting down with coach Jaron Dyson, assistant men's basketball coach at Army. I spent most of our conversation so impressed with his wisdom and demeanor and humility. I also love the way he sees the game of basketball. We point guards are all kindred spirits, that's for sure. If I was a D1 athletic director right now Coach Dyson would be on my short list to call if my head basketball position to open up at my school. I think that highly of this young coach. I have a feeling it won't be long before somebody swoops in and steals him from West Point. We had a great conversation about the real value of attending and competing for a military academy and the Army's rich history, including where both Coach Bobby Knight and Coach K cut their teeth as young coaches. I wanted coach Dyson on the podcast to quell misperceptions about attending a school like army and I walked away wishing I could enroll now and do it all over again. If you have a student athlete considering one of the military academies, this will be well worth the listen. If you're enjoying these conversations, I encourage you to subscribe on your platform of choice and leave me a comment with your thoughts and questions. You can always learn more and schedule with me at coach matt rogers. com when you want more information. All right, let's get to it. Here's my conversation with coach Jaron Dyson. How are you doing? Well, how are you? I'm doing great. So glad to talk to you. I've heard so many great things about you. That's awesome. I appreciate it. I'm really lucky to do this. Well, I did it for a long time, man. And, not only am I happy for you that you're continuing to do it, but so cool that you're doing it at West Point. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. West Point. It's a special place and I'm very lucky to work with the student athletes that I get a chance to coach. It just must be remarkable to be around such, remarkable young men every day. Every day, every day. I mean, it's, it's definitely been different than anywhere I've coached, but it's been remarkable to, to just see the things that these guys go through on a daily basis and to see the attitudes that they come with every day to practice. It's phenomenal. Where were you before West Point? So I coached at Christopher Newport University. I was there for four years under John Kerkorian. Then I left and went to Lafayette College in the Patriot League. I was there for five years with Fran O'Hanlon. Then he retired. Then I went back to Christopher Newport. Uh, I want to stay two years ago, um, with coach Corcoran, and then this is going on year two here at West point. That's great, man. That's those are some really fabulous guys to work for and to learn from. I wish I would've had that, you know, I, I felt lucky at 26. I was a head college coach at the D three level at 26, but there were just so many things that I had to figure out. Nobody had taught me. So I wish I would have had your experiences going into that first job. Cause it took me three years just to kind of figure out how to tie my shoes the right way, let alone recruit and lead and develop a program and things like that. So that's really cool. And I'm sure you've got big aspirations. You want to lead your own program at some point. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I definitely want to be a head coach. There's probably, there's been a couple opportunities that I could have pursued, but for me, it's, it's always been about, you know, the right opportunity. You know, you get one chance at being a head coach and I want to make sure it's the right opportunity, not just for me, but for my family and a place where I think I could be successful. So, but right now I'm loving being an assistant here at West Point. Where were you 25 years ago when I needed that advice where I got lucky, I got lucky getting some advice from, from especially coach O'Hanlon. He's the one that's kind of always told me, uh, you know, be where your feet are. So that's what I've tried to try. You know, and I tell kids this every day, the one thing I took for granted when I was a player is I forgot how blessed I was to have that Jersey on and be surrounded by my brothers and to have the opportunity to play that game. You know what I mean? Yep. And coaching is the same way. If you're not feeling blessed that you get to coach young men or young women and lead and get to play that sport for a living, um, you're missing something. So, so happy to hear that's the path you're on too. Yes sir. So far it's been great and I couldn't imagine doing anything else. That's great. Now, listen, I wanted to have you on. I'm, I have so many kids that are looking at, one of the military academies. And it's so unique in every aspect. If you've never been to West Point, if you've never been to the Air Force Academy, if you've never been to Annapolis, I don't think you understand the magnitude of what's being asked of these 18, 19 year olds. Right? Yes, I know. And I want to get into that. But before I want, I want you to kind of talk about first the individual. What are some of those unique qualities you're looking for when you're evaluating a young man for West Point that maybe wasn't even an option at Lafayette or Christopher Newport? What are some of those things that you just have to have? Before you'll you'll start talking to a kid. Definitely. Um, I would say, you know, the number one thing for me at a place like this is their character. Um, I want to know the type of person they are, the type of family they come from. And then I would also say, you know, how unselfish are they? Because when you come to a place like this, it's not about you. Um, it's it's about the institution. It's about the people that you're going to be, um, in battle with. It's your teammates. Everything else matters, not just yourself. So I think for me, I really try to do a good job of weeding out the guys that maybe they're just not the right fit here. They might be the right fit at some other schools. Um, but for a place like this, I really want people that are unselfish and they have great character that understand that they're going to be a part of something that's bigger than themselves. And that does take some time. That takes a lot of Questions that takes talking to teachers and guidance counselors and former coaches that they had when they were, you know, in middle school, you kind of want to know everything about a person before you can present them, not only to our head coach but to everybody here because this is an important place and you want to make sure you have the right people here at Westport. Amen coach and don't you wish. That we didn't need the military academy for that to be the pinnacle of what we're looking for. I think you hit it right on the head. I would say since I came here, the things that I look for now are things regardless if I'm a hero or wherever else I end up coaching one day. I will not forget those lessons of the character and the unselfishness, the things that I learned at West Point. It's going to help me so much when I'm evaluating in the future. You know, and I've been in these gyms for 27 years that you're in all summer long. You know, I've been sitting there with, with Bill Self and Rick Petito. You know, I've been sitting there watching these guys play. And, and you said that you have to, you got really good at weeding kids out. You I I'm still amazed at how often kids weed themselves out. You know what I mean? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah. I don't think at that age that kids all understand that they don't understand that how you do anything is how you do everything. So when you're playing and you're playing an AAU game and you're yelling at a teammate or. The coach is talking to you, you're not paying him any attention or you're rolling your eyes like, like we're looking at all those things. And these are things that I wish I would have known when I was 18 or 19, probably would have helped me out a little bit, but you just have no clue how important those things are. And like you said, you can, Easily caught cross kids off the list by the, some of the little things that they do that they have no idea can, can cost them an opportunity. Let's, let's turn the leaf on that. Let's, let's look at the positive side of that same conversation. Are there things when you're sitting in that gym and for those parents that are listening to this, they have a lot of parents that listen to this, we're sitting in a gym and we're looking around and there's might be 80 courts. There might be 2000 young men playing. You haven't gone to that gym with a blank sheet of paper. You, you know, who you're going to see, you know, where they're playing. You've probably already had conversations with them and their coaches. You've already watched their film when you're sitting there. Maybe you're watching a guy that you really love, but you're sitting there and another kid catches your eye. What are some of those things where you're like. Hold on. What's going on here? What are some of those things that really get you excited about recruiting a kid? For me, I would say competitiveness. Um, I love kids that hate to lose. Like, I love kids that it means a lot to them. Like eight a. m. A. U. Game means as much to them as a state championship game. Right on. Yeah. Competitiveness is like a non negotiable for me, like I'm always going to recruit the most competitive kids that I can because I think that's a skill that it's really hard to teach somebody how to be competitive. Right? So for me, that's one. And then honestly, I would say toughness. I'm really big into those guys that, you know, take charges. They fight through screens. They don't get screened. That's always my other thing. Just don't get screened. Um, they take and make those big shots at the end of the game. They're not scared to put the team on their back. Like, I'm really big into that. And mental toughness as well. Everybody thinks toughness is just physical, being big and strong. But how are you acting when things don't go your way? That's right. I can tell you a lot about a player when they're old for six, but how are they acting on the bench? You know, how are they, are they still engaged? Are they still shooting the next shot? Like the next one's good. You know, how is their confidence? So those things that are, are some of the things that I really try to focus on when I'm out recruiting and get me excited. That's awesome. And basketball is so different from every other sport because those mental things are so transparent. You know, football, they got a helmet on. You know, they might not be 30 yards near an official to yell at or get frustrated with. We can't really see what's going on. You know, volleyball, the refs are at the corners, you know, and baseball, we have an umpire, but basketball, it's every second, every moment, we're watching these kids and evaluating how they're dealing with every situation. And we know they're going to fail. We know they're going to, they're going to have some flaws, but it's so. we're where that kid is at that day and you might only get to see that kid one time, right? Yeah, sometimes. I mean, the way the schedule is with with recruiting, sometimes you might only get one opportunity to see a kid and it might be for a half. You're trying to watch so many kids. You're trying to see as much as you can in such a limited time that that impression that that kid makes in a half could could make or break the situation. So for me, you know, I tell kids all the time, you're always being evaluated. So you never know when somebody's in the gym, you never know when somebody has a friend that's in the gym, or I've had, you know, buddies that I've coached with that'll tell me about a kid, um, they'll say, Hey JD, you know, I think this kid fits, you know, what you're looking for, you know? So I tell kids all the time, you just never know who's watching. So you always want to bring your A game and have the right attitude because it can change your life. It's, it's so funny you talk that way. I, I, I interviewed Mike Jarvis. I'm sure, you know, coach Jarvis and his great history. He's a great mentor of mine and he, and we were talking about that same idea from a parent perspective. And I just asked him how he evaluated parents. And he goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. And I just, I lost it because it's so true, you know, typically who that kid is, you meet the parents and there's a lot of similarities. Do you find that to be true? I would say so to be honest, I think I do a pretty good job also of trying to evaluate the parents when I'm at games. You can generally tell who's, who's kid that parent is by how they're acting, they're living and dying by every shot or the coach takes them out, they're mad or upset. So I, I like to scan the crowd a lot just to kind of see like, okay, who's, you know, who's this kid's parents and I can generally figure it out pretty fast. And I watch them sometimes, sometimes once I know the kid's good enough, I'll just watch the parents for a couple minutes and, and write it down in my notes because I know, you know, my head coach is going to ask, you know, he, he asks a lot of great questions. He's going to want to know about the parents. So I better be sure to give them a good, a good answer. So. Yeah, there is such a fine line. I love a passion, a passionate parent, you know, but it's is where is that passion being directed? Are you, are you clapping like crazy? Are you supporting all the kids on the floor? You know, are you, are you getting just excited about a teammate makes a great shot as your son? So I love that. Let's talk about coach Kuik a little bit. Am I saying it right? It's Kuik, right? Yes, sir. Tell me some of the things that Kevin, Kevin sending you guys out on the road. Are, are there things I remember I always used to tell my guys, find me a junkyard dog, just go find me that kid. That'll get every rebound for us. That'll defend like a wild man, you know, going back to your mental and physical toughness and that consistency. Are there things like that, that coach says, Hey, we need this on our roster. We need a true, whatever. Yeah, definitely. And I think some of that is just. The more time you get to work with your head coach, you start to learn a little more about what he likes. And I think that does take time as an assistant. it's not about the type of kids that I just want. It's about the type of kids that not only fit our program, But fit our head coach, I would say for, for coach Kiewit, couple of things that stand out is he's really big in the skill. Like he's a big, like you gotta be able to make shots. And that's always a question that he'll ask, he'll watch guys in warmups and evaluate their, their form, their technique, their consistency, he's really big in the skill and shooting like that. That's something that has kind of stood out to me. And then the other thing is he is fighting for size. he always says, can we get that guy that's maybe two or three inches taller? because he loves to have guys that have size and a versatile that can switch on defense. and that's been something that's been good for me. Obviously me being a shorter, point guard when I played, I love, I love those, those quick, fast, Tough guards and he'll always say JD fight for a little more size. I know you want to get the next Jaron Dyson, but can you get me a little more size? So that's right. I think it's been great for me. Honestly, I, I enjoy trying to do things differently than I have in the past. That was one of the big things that I had to overcome. I always wanted to recruit a mirror version of myself because I, that's how I played. I played with my hair on fire. I wanted, I wanted to guard the best player on the floor. I wanted the ball in my hands all the time. You know, I wanted to be able to put the ball in our shooter's hands, get the ball in the post. So it was something I had to really learn to overcome. So it's great. It's great to hear that you're having those thoughts about, okay, how do I challenge myself here? And what we need compared to what I think we need, right? And I think it's tough for for any young assistant because when you get into this profession, you know, recruiting is a big part of it and you are judged a lot of time with the type of players you bring in. So, A lot of, you know, assistants, they just want to bring in the best player they can. And even though it might not be the right fit for the school or your head coach. So I think that is something that has taken some time. And I think I've gotten better at it is is recruiting. What's better? For the program, but also what's good for the particular boss that I'm working for what coach Corcoran wanted at Christopher Newport was different than what friend on handling wanted at Lafayette, which is different than what coach Kewik wants here at army. Figuring out my head coaches and asking those tough questions. And, you know, having some of the kids that I liked initially get shut down, but having to go find more, I think has made me a better coach. That's fantastic. Yeah. And I, and I can see how that would, would make you have to adapt in a really good way. Let's talk about recruiting smarter because you can't go after just any six foot four point guard and six foot 10 center. You don't have that freedom and flexibility that you might have had at CN or Lafayette. Talk me through what, where you guys have to get creative, maybe with your game planning, your strategies, where maybe you don't have that McDonald's All American who's six foot nine that can play on the wing and you know, you can just isolate. So walk me a little bit through how you build that program at Army. With that understanding, we're going to fight for that 69 wing, but if we don't get them, we've got to be ready to compete with Duke and Indiana and St. John's. What kind of conversation is going into to build in that roster? I think the one thing we do is a pretty good job of is we have to do our homework early. So we have to get on the phone. and have conversations with as many coaches and scouts and people all over the country. We don't just recruit the East Coast. We recruit nationally. Um, so I think for us, it's one about just trying to make as many connections and have these conversations and hear about as many kids as possible so that when we go out We as a staff, we feel pretty good when we get back together on those Monday morning recruiting meetings that we've seen a lot of kids, and then we could kind of dwindle it down more about, you know, look into their character look into their transcripts, and then we have to just figure out which kids are the right fit for army. There are some talented kids that we've recruited. Initially that we, we stopped recruiting because they just weren't the right fit here. Um, and yeah, and it's hard, you know, there's some guys, like you said, there's some six, four point guards that, you know, we would have loved to have, but you know, after we did some research and we talked to some people and you know, we just kind of decided, let's go in a different direction. And you end up finding a six, two guys, six, one point guard that maybe he's not as big, but he's tough. He's He's an unselfish guy. He has, you talk to him about the military aspect and he's excited about it. He's not one of those kids that's just like, Oh, no, I'm too good for that. So once you kind of dig in and really do your homework as a staff. I think it has made it a little easier for us, especially going on year two. I think year one, everywhere you go, you're all just trying to figure it out and you don't know each other that well, you're trying to learn your head coach. But I think as year two is going on, I think we've really done a better job of, of, you know, recruiting a lot of kids, seeing as many kids as possible, and then having those conversations with as many people around these kids to find if they're the right fit to help us with our ultimate goal, which is to win a Patriot League championship. Absolutely. You know, we're in this world now, Coach, where especially your world that you live in is so transactional now. What can you do for me, Coach? You know, how much NIL money? How much, you know, how much can you guarantee me? You guys can't, you don't live in that world. You can't afford to even be in that world. What are the things that attract a young man to Army Are the things that you know when you bring it up and you see their eyes light up That you've you've got that you got a shot at that kid What are some of those attractions to West Point that gets kids excited? Yes, I would say, you know, some of the things is one, the education. I mean, Army is one of the top educations in the world. That's right. You know, a lot of kids initially when they hear about that, I mean, they're intrigued because at the end of the day, Most kids and most families, they want to get a great education. Um, and then I would say the alumni, there's been some phenomenal people that have graduated from West Point from former presidents to, you know, Mark Klaus, he's the CEO of Campbell soup. He actually comes and speaks with our team every year. He's a former West Point basketball player. So to be able to kind of talk to them about guys like that, and obviously Coach K, you know, the greatest coach of all time, pretty good career. Yeah, pretty good career, to be able to talk to them about, these guys were just like you, they were 18 years old. didn't know what they wanted. Um, and they came to a place like this and it changed their life. And Coach K has said that on numerous interviews that he wouldn't be the coach that he is today if he doesn't go to West Point. So those things with the education, the alumni, and then I would also say once we get them on the campus, It's, it's really beautiful up here. I mean, they see how beautiful it is up here. And then the people that they meet on this campus, like they're all here to help you. They see that our student athletes are just like them. They're just like, they were their kids. Um, and then let some see like, yo, I can, I can do this. You know, I can, I can see myself. doing this and obviously serving your country. Um, so I think for me, it's just, you try to hit them with a little bit of everything. You don't try to just, you know, tone on one thing. I try to give them a little bit of everything. And generally once you do that, the interest starts to peak. And especially when they want to come visit, it really helps sell this place. Well, I love it that you guys are able to connect the dots for a 17 year old who's just thinking about ball and school and what's next, what's tomorrow, and you can help open their eyes to what the next four years are going to do for the next 40 years if you graduate from West Point. What that does for your life, you know, the fact that If you want it, you got a job that's going to take care of you financially for the rest of your life, and you're going to have a support group and a family that's there for you every step of the way for as long as you want it. I mean, a lot of colleges can promise great alumni and four year education, but very few can pretty much guarantee if you're going to be a hardworking disciplined person, we're going to take care of you for the rest of your life. And I tell kids that all the time, like, if you're looking to come to a place just for four years and, and have some fun, like, obviously West Point's not for you, but if you're looking to go a place that's going to take care of you for the rest of your life, and you're going to be a part of something that you're going to remember, and it's going to have impact not just on you, but on your kids, kids, I think West Point is for you. Is the place for you now. It's not for everybody. And that's the number one thing that I always tell these kids when we recruit them is listen, this place, it is going to be hard. You know, you're going to have some days where you're going to be like, what did I get myself into? But I can promise you, you're not going to go in and alone, you're going to have all your brothers on the basketball team. You're going to have other cadets here that are kind of going through the same thing you are. And they're the resources and the help that is here at West Point to help you get through. Is amazing. It's as, as good as you're gonna find anywhere in the country. Right. And I can promise you, once you graduate from West Point, you will not regret what you did those four years. You're gonna be excited'cause the rest of your life is set. Yeah. And, and, and what I try to preach to kids, you tell me if this is, if this is wrong. Yes. It's a, it's a nine year commitment for you guys. Right? They're basically there for four years, then it's five years service, right? It's five. Yep. So. At worst, you're 27 years old. You've got this unbelievable education. You've got this unbelievable five years of professional service. And if you want to walk away at 27, you're still the prime of your life. If you want to go be an engineer or go to the National Guard or go, go be a doctor, you can do whatever you want. So I, as, as much as that nine year commitment is overwhelming, I think when you first think of it, the idea that I'm still going to be in the prime of my life. And if I want to do something different, if I changed my mind, or if I want to go a different path down the road, I'm I can do that. That's pretty, that's pretty sweet. I think. And, and I always tell kids, you know, West Point doesn't stop you from doing anything that you wanted to. It helps you and enhances it. You know, coach K, you know, it didn't stop him from becoming the greatest coach of all time. It hasn't stopped Mark Klaus from being the CEO. Everything that they've learned here has only helped to make them even better. That's right. And I think it just gives you an advantage, to be honest with you. I think at 22 years old, once you graduate here, you know, as a second lieutenant, you're going to be in charge of, of people. Where else in the country are you going to get that type of leadership experience at 22, 23 years old? There's nowhere. When you do get out at 27, if you decide to get out, people are going to want to hire you because you've already have leadership experience that most people don't get to their 35, 40 years old. So for me, I think it's just a no brainer. It's not for everybody, but I can promise you it can change your life. I wish somebody would have grabbed me by the back of the neck and drug me to West Point at 17. And just said, stop thinking and just listen and, and, and watch and just give me, I wish somebody would just open up because I needed that discipline. I was a hardworking kid. I had a big work ethic. I was a good student, but I think I needed that more at that point in my life. I can imagine. So I think we all did. Yeah, I think we all did. And I think when we were all that, at that age, all we were thinking about, I know I was was basketball. All I thought about was basketball, basketball, basketball. I wasn't thinking about. You know, the ball is going to stop one day. What else do I want to do? What's going to help me? All I was thinking about is when am I going to get my next workout in? That's right. Oh, thinking about practice. So again, at that age, it's important to have the right people around kids and, and hopefully get them to understand that, you know, the ball does stop one day, give yourself the best chance to be successful at life by going somewhere that's going to put you in position to be successful. That's awesome. Let's let's talk a little bit about the uniqueness of the application process for West Point because I, I just, it's a lot, but I think it's so darn cool what what you put these, these kids through to get them in the door. If I'm a parent and I am I've got a high school kid, and we're thinking about going to West Point. walk through what that application process looks like for our family. Yeah, definitely. So the first part I would say is like, like any other place you apply to, you have to, you know, open the portal, we send you a link, there's a portal where you submit, you know, your, your transcripts, you know, we have to get recommendations from your guidance counselors, and things like that. But the unique part of it is, There's a medical part with West Point where you have to go and pretty much there's some military questions, some medical questions that we ask you that we actually on the early front, but then you actually have to go in and see a doctor and pass a medical part, which a lot of times can be a deal breaker. There's some things that unfortunately we just can't accept. So that's one part of it. And then there's also a, a physical part, which I actually think is pretty cool where you have to do some, some, some testing, I would say, you know, like pull ups, push ups, um, things like that, that you have to submit to your application and our application people there, they take a look at that to make sure you're doing them right. Which I think is actually pretty cool. I was just talking to a young man who he just did his pull up, uh, video. Um, and he had to redo it because he didn't do it correctly. So those are things that are a little different than the normal place where you're just, you know, filling out an application and waiting to hear back. Now there's a medical piece. Um, obviously there's a physical piece and then there's obviously the nomination piece. Um, as well. So it's, it's a little unique. It's taken some, some time to get used to, but once you do get a kid all the way through all of those things, it's pretty cool. You feel pretty accomplished. Like, man, that was a lot, but it was worth it. I love the wake up call. You just gave to all those physical education teachers out there, all those PE teachers. I got to get that push. I got to get them doing their pushups right, man. Got to do them getting their pull ups done. Right. It is so hilarious. You'll be like. And you'll see the, you'll be like, that looks like a pretty good pull up to me. But then you're like, no, it's not good enough. And you got to do it again. So I love it though. It's it's, it's, it's great. That's what makes it special. They're going to have to figure it out when they get there. Let's try it. Let's get them figured some things out before they get there. I, it makes a lot of sense to me. Talk a little bit about the nomination process and you know, got to have a state Senator, right? Yes, sir. Talk a little bit about that and how that because for a lot of families, I would imagine that feels overwhelming. I got, how do I even talk to my state center? How do I even get them to, you know, to look at me, you know, so talk a little bit about that process. Yeah, I would say that the best way for me to explain that is without rambling on for 30 minutes about it. We try to help you as much as we can. There's there's obviously the guidance counselors at your schools can help you. There's some some people that we can connect you with wherever you're located at to kind of help you with that process. And then there's obviously applications that you have to fill out for that. And you have to fill out for that. But for us, it's really more about us just connecting you with the people that can help you in that process. It's not really the basketball, the football coaches. It's more around us connecting you with, you know, the people down there where you live at either your guidance counselors or the people in our admissions office here helping connect you with those people. So that's great process. Um, again, it's been a lot for me to learn. Cause when I was at Lafayette and, you know, Christopher Newport, we didn't have to touch any of that kind of stuff, but it's been cool to hear kids talk to me about, you know, Hey coach. I had to do this and at first I was a little frustrated with it, but it actually turned out to be pretty cool that I got to talk to these people that I probably would have never talked to in my life. So I think it's, it's a pretty cool process. That is, I, I wrote this in my book. I tell families that the college coach that's recruiting you is the best person to help you get accepted into that school because they know the admissions and financial aid process better than anybody else. They might not have all your answers, but they are connected to every single person that can give you exactly what you need. To get that done. So, you know, we're seeing families spend 5, 10, 000 on a college advisor and someone that helps them write their application. And I'm like, if you're getting recruited, your energy goes to your coaches, the people that want you are going to help you get in the door, because if they really want you, they're not gonna let you fail. They're not gonna let you make mistakes. So that's such good advice. Well beyond West Point coach. That's great. Yes, sir. I love it. Talk to me about your joy of coaching. Obviously we talked about you had a great love of playing and like I did. And where did coaching come in to the picture for you? That's a great question. I would say for me, it started in high school. I, again, I've loved basketball since I was probably three years old, but the part that I enjoyed most was one, being part of a team. And then two, just being able to watch somebody, including my teammates, watching somebody that maybe they weren't very good at one thing. But then with the hard work and discipline and, you know, consistency, they become good at that. And I've just always enjoyed that. So it kind of started for me in high school when I was still playing. Um, you know, spending time with my head coach and he was pretty tough on me and I didn't really understand it at the time. But then as I got older in the program and I got a little bit better, I realized he was just trying to push me to another level. And Once I realized that it was like, man, like I would love to do the exact same thing one day to help young men become the best version of themselves. And it just kind of started in high school. And I got to college. I knew that I wanted to coach, obviously I was still in my career. So at the time I was, you know, all about whooping, but I spent a lot of time with my college coaches and asking questions and, you know, why are we doing this? Um, watching film with them, you know, recruiting, I would do a lot of the visits, they'd have me hosting kids. And, you know, I, even when I got done playing, I don't know if I've told this when I was done playing my senior year, I was about to graduate. My coach even sent me on a road to go recruiting with them. That's fantastic. And for me, that was like everything. I was like, wow, like this. is totally different than anything I would have ever thought. Like the stuff that you're looking for, you know, how to get to the gym on time and how to navigate the, the, the facilities and all of those things, the, you know, the parents, the questions that are asked. So getting able to do that, that's kind of where it all started. And I've been fortunate that That has been my life since I've graduated college is, is coaching. And it's something that I don't take for granted. Well, it shows you've got an unbelievable passion and, and I, and I'm just trying to think what, where my career would be right now, if I had you and Don Parker. Doing all my recruiting and all my on the floor coaching. I might have six, 700 wins by now, if I had both of you. So come on, man. Tom's a good coach. You both have that genuine love. Of the kids, your coach. You generally have that love and passion for the game and sharing the game and teaching the game. So it just gets me juiced up and gets me excited, to keep an eye on you and watch you. I want to dive into recruiting a little bit. just in general, the portal has changed the world. The NIL, the NLI is about to change. we really still don't know where that's going. Are you guys getting some direction from your AD and the NCAA about where the NLI is headed? A little bit, but not, not like exactly like, this is what's going to happen. It's just more like updates. Um, here and there you still have to sign kids, right? Yeah, we do. But like, again, like our situation here. At army is so much, I don't want to say we're in another world, but like, we're kind of like the opposite end of what everybody else is going in and going on right with right now. So for us, it's a little different. Um, and I can't speak for other, well, I can't, I got some buddies that are at other schools that they have no clue what's going on. They have no clue what's going to happen. Um, they take it week by week. Yeah, for us. We we're kind of okay with that. You know, we're not really in that, that realm as much as everybody else. Our compliance does a great job of kind of, we meet with a monthly and they kind of just update us like, Hey, this is what's going on, but as of now, it hasn't affected you in this space yet. So right now I'd say we're a little different than everybody else. We're, we're doing okay with that, but it's changing. I I'm. I am curious to see what happens to college athletics in the next. You know, five years because every year between the portal and NIL and, you know, this revenue share, like everything is just changing so much from when I got into coaching, I've just tried the approach of, I'm just going to take it, you know, day by day and whatever gets thrown my way or our staff's way, we're just going to have to adapt. And I think the, the coaching staffs that just realize, you know what, we're going to adapt. And not complain, uh, the coaching staffs that I think are going to be successful in this, this new, uh, space that we're in. Well, you, you've got to kind of keep an, a side eye on it because you're going to be a head coach in the big East or the ACC next year and the next five years, and I'm going to, I'm going to be watching you on TV and you're, and I'm going to come, I'm going to get you back on and we're going to talk about all of those things that you're having to deal with, but I'm, I'm amazed at how many people don't realize that the national letter of intent. It's not a part of the NCAA. Yeah, they don't read it. And that's the problem. The NLI, the national letter of attendance, its own organization is shutting down. And now the NCAA is having to take a look at the whole process and going, okay, we're going to have to bring this in house somehow. Right. Yeah. It's for me again, I just don't. Not to get too much into it, but I, I, I just feel like sometimes we are making way more problems and there needs to be, it should be about the kids, it should always be about the kids and what's best for the kids. And I think it has gone away from that, which is causing all of these. new things that are happening and some things are good for kids. Don't get me wrong. There's some things that are good, but there's some things now where I'm just like, we are making this whole thing way more complicated than it needs to be. And hopefully we can get a little more structure, um, from somebody to, to help everybody in this new space. I love it. All right. Here's an easier question. Um, I put you in a room, 300 families and 300 prospects. What advice do you give them about how to go about not so much, not necessarily just for the army, but what advice do you give them on how to get recruited, how to talk to coaches, how to get a coach paying attention to you, how to get evaluated properly? What advice would you give those families? Definitely. Definitely. I, um, I would say the number one thing. I would give any family, if they are serious about being recruited is one, you need to have the right people around you. Um, and if that's a, somebody that you really trust, if that's a high school coach, if that's an AAU coach, if there's a trainer, somebody that's serious about your development and getting them to, you know, get your name out there. As I always say, some kids, They'll send us emails and, they'll say, Hey coach, I'm interested in, playing basketball at West Point, but there's no, like, there's no film, there's no, like, there's no high school coaches number, there's no, like, AAU coaches number, there's no, like, nothing and it's just like, Hey, I'm interested in playing and it's like, okay, well, thanks, but like, I need something to kind of go off of, so I told kids all the time, like, if you have any film of full games, Send it because like college coaches like that's our job. Our job is to evaluate. So I told kids all the time, like, get with your high school coach and have that conversation. Like, Hey coach, I really want to play division one, two, three, whatever, what do I need to do? What can you do for me to help me get my name out there? And maybe your high school coach can connect you with the right AAU program, maybe it's an elite camp, I tell kids that all the time, some people feel a certain way about elite camps. They don't want to go to them because they think it's, you know, like a money grab, but I tell people all the time, like any opportunity that you have to play in front of a college basketball coach, you should 100 percent take that opportunity. And everywhere I've been, and that's including Christopher Newport and Lafayette and now army. Kids that have come to elite camp, we have offered kids scholarships from the kids that have come to our elite camps because it's another way for us to see them. And like, and like we talked about earlier in the summer, we have to watch so many kids that sometimes we might not get to see a little Johnny play as long as we want. But if you come to our elite camp and we can watch you for three hours, we might say, man, you know, little Johnny is way better than I thought he was. Yeah. You know, he's a better shooter than I saw for that one half of basketball. So I just think it's about getting the right people around you and formulating a plan of getting in front of coaches. And that's, might be sending them film that might be going to elite camps. So anything you can do to get on a college coach's radar, I would do it because I think at the end of the day, we get a lot of emails and I can promise you on our staff. We check all of them every day. I love that. So important. That's by the way, that's chapter five and six. What you just talked about. I love it. You got to send me that book. I will. I'm going to send you a copy because I want your feedback on it. But that's, that's what I want families to hear that you, if you're not being assertive, if you're just sitting there going, I'm a great player, they're going to find me. How am I going to find you in a sea of 28, 000 high schools and 5, 000 AAU programs? How am I going to find you? Tell me that. So I love that focus. I love that you guys are checking emails. I love that you're listening to voicemails. I love that you're giving feedback. I love that you're going to the camps and paying attention to every kid that can make a difference for you. So excited and so much work. It's so much work to do that because if you need a power forward next year, how many power forwards are you going to look at to figure out which one you make an offer to? A lot. A lot. A lot. A lot. Hundreds, right? We're doing it right now. We're doing it right now. I love it. I love it. Coach, I so appreciate your time. I know you guys are in the thick of the beginning of your season and you guys are doing individuals and you got academic stuff and you got practices every day. Give, give my audience. One piece of significant advice. It doesn't even have to be about basketball or recruiting, but give me one piece of significant advice that you think all families and kids need to hear. Definitely. I would say, you know, the, the one. Uh, advice that I think is important and I kind of said it earlier and I get it from from again from Coach O'Hanlon who I work for at Lafayette is how you do anything is how you do everything. So I would tell kids like if you are serious. about being a really good basketball player. Be serious about your schoolwork. Be serious about the things you do around the house. Be serious about your relationships with your friends. Be intentional with everything. And I think having that discipline as a young High school kid will only make your transition that much better when you get to college. I think it's something that I look back on now where my mom used to always talk to me about procrastination and not making my bad little things that I did not think were important at all. I was like, yeah, what does that have to do with You know, me scoring 30 or me doing this, but then as I got to college, I realized how all those little details and how I started my day, the amount of rest that I got, you know, the level of focus that I was able to have had a lot to do with everything else around me. You know, when my school work, when I was on top of my school work, I was playing better, you know, when I was. Not on top of my school, but when I was struggling and procrastinating, I was showing up late to workouts and you know, I wasn't getting the time to do the extra work because I was so behind on other things. So for me, I look at it like now and I tell my players this all the time, like take care of your schoolwork, take care of your bodies, you know, take care of all those little things. So that when it's time to just do basketball, you got about 100 percent focus on that. And I think it starts in high school. I think it starts in high school, that discipline, that, that level of focus. Um, I really think it can change your career and I, and I think it can give you a little bit of an advantage when you get to college. Because college coaches, you know, it's, it's a business and it's serious, but you got to be able to go like, things got to kind of go fast. And if you're dealing with things over here, things over there, you're, you're always going to be coming from behind. If that's right. And it doesn't matter if you're going to West point or going, going to go to play ball at the local junior college down the street, that discipline, that work ethic, that routine is going to rise you to the top, wherever you're at. And all the best players that I've coached. In college, they all were some of the most disciplined guys I've ever seen. They knew absolutely exactly what time they were going to work out every day. They took care of their bodies. They were seeing the trainer when they needed to see the trainer. They got it. They always were worried about how much sleep they got. And I didn't understand it. And I was like, this is why these guys are so good because the rest of their life is in order. And it's something that I've taken with me as I've gotten older and coaching is like trying to tell my guys now, man, like discipline, discipline, discipline, discipline, that's going to be the separator from you and the other thousands of guys that are playing in college basketball. Fantastic coach. You're brilliant. You're so wise and I'm so thankful to have gotten to know you and spend some time with you. You've got a huge fan in me. I can't wait to watch army play this year. Can't wait to follow your career, but thank you so much for just sharing your time and your experience with me today. It means a lot. I appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity. I've heard nothing but great things about you. And anytime you want to come to a West Point basketball game, you let me know. We'll get you there. Oh man. I am so in, I got to get to New York and I'm, I think I'm going to be more excited about coming to a practice. If you guys let me come into your practice, then games, cause I just, I love how you guys work so I appreciate the offer. I'm going to take you up on it. Anytime. Just let me know. Thank you for everything coach. Good luck. All right, Matt. We'll talk soon. That's a wrap for this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast. I'd like to thank Coach Jaron Dyson for sharing his great passion for coaching and learning with me. Just love that guy. He is a future superstar in our sport. If you're enjoying these conversations, please click that subscribe and or like buttons. If you're interested in working with me or scheduling me to speak at your school or organization, you can schedule a free strategy session at CoachMattRogers. com. Hey, thanks for listening. Have a significant week. Goodbye until next time.