Episode #43: Demi Agaiby

Demi Agaiby is the Director of Sports Performance at Beyond Horizons Performance in Chicago, IL. She works with student-athletes to build confident and resilient performers using her 3 E's of Excellence Framework - Educate, Equip, and Empower.  She coaches every performer she works with to reach their performance goals, overcome pre-performance anxiety, and embrace career transitions.  Enjoy!

Learn more about Demi Agaiby here:  http://beyondhorizonsperformance.com/

Transcript

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In this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, I had the great pleasure of sitting down with sports performance coach Demi Agaibi. Demi is the director of sports performance at Beyond Horizons Performance in Chicago, Illinois, where she works with athletes on building mental skills to enhance student athletes ability to master their self confidence. Resilience, self awareness, and self motivation in order to excel on and off the playing field and the playing courts. If you're a parent of a student athlete, you'll leave our conversation with practical tools to help your child overcome those things that we all struggle with, anxiety, self doubt, and depression. If you're enjoying these conversations, I encourage you to subscribe on your platform of choice and leave me a comment with your thoughts and questions. You can always learn more and schedule with me at CoachMattRogers. com when you want more information. All right, let's get to it. Here's my conversation with Coach Demi Agaibi. Demi a guy be so good to see you. Thanks for being on today. Thank you, Matt. I'm so excited. You know, I'm, a parent. I've got an 11 year old and a 15 year old and my 15 year old's a high school volleyball player. So this is really exciting for me that you and I have started this friendship and this relationship. Yeah, because I've already learned so much from you and I'm really excited to share you with all the parents and high school coaches out there that listen to this. Yeah, and I think the big thing for me Is I grew up with that taboo that you just keep working, you keep your head down and you keep working through whatever you're struggling with. And God forbid you would go get help from somebody that's a professional. And luckily I've had to overcome that. And I've had some counseling and I've met with therapists and there's just things that it was just nice to be able to share and talk and. And I've had to learn about myself. So tell me a little bit about where this started for you to get into this world of the athlete's mind and the athlete's emotions, where did that begin for you? Yeah, well, I'm going to take you. Far back. Probably, in high school when, so for context, I grew up a dancer. That was my primary sport, and was invested in it from a very young age. And I was kind of in this in between period where I feel like a lot of athletes are, but that junior or senior year where it's like this awkward, like, is this something that I'm really committing to for like, you know, the next. and I was auditioning for programs and basically was avoiding this injury and basically through all of this overtraining got really, really injured. basically had micro fractures in both of my tibias. Yeah. So it was, I literally, like, if you looked at my shins, they were like, bruised at just looking at them. They looked absolutely awful. And so basically I was on crutches for like a long time. And that was such an awkward moment for me because I had already auditioned, you know, and it was just kind of like, all right, now I literally just sit here and I wait. And I think that being separated from My sport in that capacity, but then also being in that weird transition period, I was like faced with this kind of idea of like, okay, is this really something that I love? And I was like grasping with what I look back on now is like the first kind of, introduction to like what it meant to be an athlete and athletic identity. And it was in those moments when I, You know, I was still like, is this something I'm going to continue for the rest of my life? And it was in those moments of when I was injured and I couldn't do the thing that I wanted that I really just came to this acceptance and like, just this overwhelming kind of messaging of like, this is this thing, the thing I want to commit to for the next four years. Like this is without a doubt, like this is what I'm going to do. And so that was probably the first kind of introduction to it was like when I was injured, the first time. And then it kind of progressed into, well, okay, now I'm taking this seriously. I did dance in college and dancing in college came with. A lot more struggles, I'll tell you that, than just my injury. I can imagine, yeah. So, you know, I was experiencing performance anxiety. Did I know it was performance anxiety? No. I look back on that and I'm like, that is textbook classic, like, performance anxiety. I was burnt out. I went through, like, what I call sophomore syndrome, where basically, I wasn't performing a lot. I was training, I had gone through injuries, and I was just going to drop everything. And it turned out I was burnt out. Yeah. And I didn't realize that. And I later found that a lot of people go through like this called sophomore syndrome, where they like, are not maybe they're, you know, on the bench more than they want, they're not playing as good. as much as they want. And so they're like, wait, do I actually love this thing? Like, is this something I actually want to continue? So yeah, all of those things kind of led me to be just, intrinsically fascinated with how our mind works and how it works under pressure, and how it works under really intense circumstances and how those intense circumstances can actually make us stronger, um, in so many ways. And that carried with me and, you know, this is probably the most, like, boring part of my story, but I was literally, you know, Google searching what I'm going to do after college. And I knew I wanted to combine the two. And I, I stumbled upon sports psychology. It's a fairly new kind of field. And so I didn't even know it existed. Um, and then it, the rest is history. I'm curious again, from a dad's perspective, where were your parents? from just from a, from a position, where were they for you? So when my, on whether or not I was g My parents were very much of the mindset of like, you need to have a backup plan. You need to, like you can't put all of your eggs in one basket. They were very, hesitant, I would say, but with like good intention, right. Of like, Hey, what are you doing? You know, like, is this really something that you're going to pursue professionally? And, you know, I will quote my mom on this. She till this day says, I never thought. That putting you in ballet when you were three years old would, you know, take you to where you are now. She's like, I never in a million years would have imagined that this would happen and that you would create this business and, and whatever. So they were hesitant. They were hesitant as I was committing. And then when I was in my program, I really just used them as just like another social support system of just like a coping, like, Hey, this annoying thing happened with this professor, or I'm really struggling socially. Right. And I would just call them up and kind of vent to them. Um, but they really kind of, trusted me to handle those situations. And I, I just use them as like a code being like, I just kind of, you know, I needed mom and dad in some moments. So yeah, that's kind of the rule. You go through life as a teenager and you don't really know what you don't know. Yeah. And oftentimes, you know, and I hate to call it ignorance, but that's what it is. Cause you just don't know what you don't know as a teenager. There's a ton of confidence in that ignorance or that lack of knowledge where I got this, I got this. I don't need anybody else. Know what I'm doing. Did you go through that with your parents? I know that's a really good question. I think it sounds just, you know, just your tone. It sounds like mom and dad were very supportive. They were there when you needed them. You leaned on them when you needed them. Yeah. I also think I knew, and maybe this doesn't answer your question directly. I also know the positioning of my parents and what their perspective was that they weren't completely sold on like my dance. Training like this was not something that they were like, you know, cheering me on like every which way like yes, they were supportive and they they, you know, were able to fund it provide financial support and they would show up to the shows and you know they would listen to me complain. And I think they let me figure out a lot on my own and I appreciate that. Um, because I, I guess I do think in a way there was a lot that I did have to figure out on my own of like, no, this is what I'm going to do, like very adamant and then like, oh, look what I got myself into. And my parents are like, okay, now that you got yourself into this, like, you know, you have to develop the skills to figure it out. And I think. That's just kind of the nature of, of how my, my college training years, when my performing years, when it was, you know, if you really love this thing, let's see it, you know, hear when you need me. That's fantastic. I, I constantly, and my wife would probably tell you the same thing. We constantly go back and forth to, we need to give them some direction advice so they don't make the mistakes we feel like they're on track to make, but we also Need to get out of their way and let them find their independence. Let them make mistakes and get over it. What are some of those things that when you're talking to an athlete, you're talking to a parent, how can parents help their child handle some of those competitive situations that they're in? Or is there, is there a couple of things that just jump out at you that. Yeah. You think parents should be doing or thinking about? Yeah. I think first things first is that there is such um, a hyper fixation or focus already on the outcome of sport, right? Like wins and losses, whether you're playing or not. And I think a really good role for the parent to take is like helping your athlete bring attention back to the process and in the present moment and where they are. Um, Yeah. And that can be in casual conversation, or it can be like, Hey, I've, you know, I've noticed this about your playing, or I've noticed, I've noticed this about your mindset lately. And I just wanted to bring that to your attention. I don't know if it's something you're noticing or realizing or doing intentionally, but I see it. And I want to commend that, right? Like I see how you were talking to that person when you were on the bench, I see how you, you kind of were dabbing up with your teammate, like whatever, in whatever circumstance, right? Like, I want to acknowledge that. Bring attention to what you're doing. Well, despite a loss, right. While also validating, like the fact that if they lose, it does suck. Right. I think bringing attention to that present moment, um, stating observations. And I would also say like, depending, like, you know, cause sometimes the kid gets in the car and it's like, It's like, do I even talk to them? You know, like it's just, you know, I totally get that. Right. I can relate to that. Let me tell you. Yeah. So it's like, you know, I would say parents like ask, Hey, are you open to hearing something that I saw? And if they say, sure, great. Then that's your moment. And if they say no, then your next question is, okay, is, is there, when is there a time, you know, that you would be willing to hear that. And if they say never, because that might happen. That's right. Okay. when in, when can we have this conversation like within the next 24 hours. Yeah. Right. Or something, you give them some sort of a deadline. Right. Um, but I think that's it. The most impactful thing is bring them to the present, help them understand their personal successes, their personal processes, help them remember where they've come, where they've came from, and help them build confidence from that, not necessarily the wins and losses. To me, it sounds very similar to the Socratic method where As a teacher and a coach, I've learned not to always give the answer, but give them a lead to kind of help them figure out that answer on their own a little bit faster. Encourage a dialogue. Hey, I'm here to do this with you. I'm here to collaborate. I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm not going to tell you how to do it, but I'm going to open up that line of communication. So, you know, I'm ready to talk when you are. Does that make sense? Yes. Yes. And that's exactly the type of relationship we want to build because when you think about it, an athlete has so many people telling them what to do at so many different instances, right? Like including themselves, like the pressures on themselves. And so like, in order to facilitate a relationship between the parent and the athlete, that is, you know, healthy and productive is giving space. And to say, I'm not going to be that person that's going to tell you what to do. And I'm not going to, you know, kind of add to all of that. Instead, I'm going to be a person that just brings things to your attention, trusting that you can figure it out with this information and we can work together to figure it out. So, yeah, absolutely. It's funny. Cause how my daughter works is. I'll try and, you know, just give her a little piece of positive construction after, after a game and she'll, she'll be like, dad, I don't want to hear it. You know, I don't need it right now. Stop. You know, and I'm like, okay. You know, and then three hours later, I'll, I'll get a note that I'll shove under my bedroom door or I'll get a text and say, sorry, dad, you're right. You know, I. I need to think about that. It's just kind of how that relationship has grown as she's in high school. And once that independence, I'm slowly learning. I don't, I don't do anything but open my arms for a hug if she wants it after a game and, and go, Hey, where do you want to go to dinner? Yeah. It's fun watching you play, you know? Yeah. And I think, well, I think that approach is also really important of having no agenda. And just kind of being receptive to the needs of the athlete in that moment because they might not want to talk to you. And what can actually harm that relationship is like, if you kind of, um, just like be, are really aggressive in, in offering like your two cents. Right. And that tends to happen with a lot of parents where they're like, I know you don't want to hear this, but this is what I have to tell you. And blah, blah, blah. And it's like, The reality is, like, they're processing in that moment, and especially after a loss or something that was really significant, maybe they didn't play well, right? Everybody needs that time. Yeah. And you kind of have to trust that, you know, over time, that, that, that intense emotional reaction will subside, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's such a You know, I've got 14 nieces and nephews and I watch them all. They're all athletes and watch them all go through this. But now day to day watching a teenager go through this. It's so hard on me because every time it doesn't go well or every time she's hurting mentally or physically, I, I feel it, you know, it hurts me. So, you know, I, I want to, it's just my instinct. I want to fix everything for her. And exactly. Yeah. I. I. And it's everything in my power just to back away. You know, I typically, the game's over. I'll typically give her a wave and I go to the car and I let her mom stick around because I'm just so afraid of doing the wrong thing. You know, she wins and she played well. Yeah, it's great. I stay and give her the hug, you know, but typically I get out of there. I, you know, I let her get that walk to the car at least where she doesn't have to have to worry about somebody else. Yeah, yeah. And I think. Something that can help parents in the, those situations is having preemptively a conversation of how they want that all to happen, right? Like, yes, you can strategize, like you can't plan every single thing, but you can kind of talk with your athlete and be like, okay, look. There are going to be moments like, look, you're not going to be undefeated this whole time. Like you're going to lose. That's just the reality. Right? Like you're going to have bad games, whether or not you win or you lose, like all of this stuff. What do you, what do you want me to be in those moments for you in those moments? What are you looking for from me? What can I anticipate my, to be my role in those moments, right? Like have those conversations early on. And then like, obviously you'll adapt, you'll like. kind of just see as the circumstances, you know, in this scenario is kind of unfold, but at least you're going in a little bit more prepared on the parents. I used to be like, okay, she just lost. I know, well, you know, we talked about this. This is kind of what she wants from me. I'll still, I would say like, you know, follow protocol, but then also like, say, is there anything else you need from me? Right. Like in those moments. Uh, but yeah, I think kind of having the conversation, like even before the season or even mid season to be like, Hey, let's check in. Because I want to make sure I don't push buttons. I want to make sure that I'm like supporting you. Let's talk about this. Yeah, I think it's, it's such valuable advice because as parents, we're so used to reacting. Yes. Yeah. And, and when we allow ourselves to be proactive, we don't have to react as much, or Our reaction can be so much healthier because we know what they want. They, we know what they want that. So I love that advice. Let's. Let's take that to another level. When you're watching a student athlete or a student athlete walks into your office for a, for a session, what are those signs of burnout, mental fatigue that you're seeing and how do we work as parents and as coaches to try and prevent those things from happening? Yeah. First thing first, obviously you're in sport because you love it. And if all of a sudden you're like, I don't even know if I love this anymore. That is a really telltale sign of like, hmm, that's interesting, right? It kind of just raises a red flag on like something's going on, right? You'll also see, you know, lack of motivation. They just don't want to put in the work like they were doing before. Um, And it's a very strange kind of thing to like explain via like my like words But you see it in their body language in their face in there They look absolutely drained Like they look defeated. They look deflated. They look tired. Um and not in a just didn't get eight hours of sleep way in a like soul kind of like Yeah. Type of way. Yes. I know what that looks. I know what it feels like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but for me, I mean, the two things that I'm like, okay, you're falling out of love with your sport and you don't want to put in the work, um, and you're feeling like, you know, fatigue, like you're just tired. Right. And the first thing is like, I'm just tired. I don't want to do it anymore. I'm just tired. Right. That could be, you don't know how to handle the pressure and you're kind of avoiding it or it could be. Yeah. You're burnt out, right? Those are like the symptoms, I would say. It's so funny. After every season, club and then high school, my daughter will tell us, I don't know if I'm going to do this anymore. It's not a week later where there's an open gym or a friend is asked her to go play. And that whole thought disappears. No, I love this too much. So how do, this is such a loaded question and I'm in a, I'm in this moms, volleyball moms group on Facebook. And, and the questions are so telling a parent will say, how does your daughter feeling after the season? Is she relieved or is she. season is over. And I wou of the answers are, she's do we, you know, it's suc long seasons. We're askin kids, you know, I might p games when I was 10, 12 y I got kids in my neighborhood playing 80 to 100 baseball games at 10. I know that's one way is pulling back the competition a little bit, but how can we prevent that burnout? Or is there a path to preparing them so they don't get burned out? I think I think to, to some extent, like, you learn from, at least the intention is that you learn from these moments in the season, right? You know that it's a pattern that at the end of the season, I always have these thoughts that I'm never going to do it again. And then they go away, right? So I think that's the first thing is like, be aware of like the patterns and be like, yeah, we said that last time. Okay. So obviously we know that we're perpetually being burnt out by the end of the season. It's not that you don't love it. It's not that you don't want to do it anymore. This is a pattern. So we need to predict the pattern and we need to attend to the pattern. Um, so that's the first thing. As it relates to like, you know, kind of how we respond to that during the season. Identity, right? So when When you're in season, it's very typical, very, you know, it's just, they eat, sleep, breathe sport. And I get that. I totally understand that when you're committed to a team, that's what's expected of you. And that's what coach, you know, is kind of asking of you too. And that's what perpetuates the burnout. Yes, you are an athlete and you are so many other things while you are in season. And even the best of the best, right? Like elite athletes, NFL players, NBA, you ask them, are they committed to their sport? They will say, yes, absolutely. You also ask them, are you committed to your family? They will say, yes, absolutely. Right. Are you committed to showing up for your mom? Are you committed to service? Are you committed to community? Yes. Right. So even at a high level, we see people investing in other aspects of their identity. And it's just ironic that, you know, we're actually seeing it trickle down into younger and younger ages where they don't have other aspects of their identity that are being fostered or facilitated or nurtured in any way. Um, when, you know, the greats of the greats are doing it. Right. And so that kind of lends an example of like, okay. They're handling a lot of pressure too. And You know, they're able to manage. So what can I do for my athlete throughout the season to remind them of their other, the other aspects of who they are as a human being. Um, and I think, you know, I, I see it all the time. I'll talk to my athletes that I work with in my one on one sessions. And I'm like, what, what do you do besides your sport? And it's crickets. It's like, uh, it's just the most, and then to them, well, is there anything that you would be curious about doing? Is there anything that you are interested in? And it's just like, no, I don't know. I've never given it the thought. Right. So even entertaining the idea of like, what fills your cup outside of sport? That's actually the most proactive approach. And if I'm speaking as it relates to, um, athletic identity and, and fostering a healthy athletic identity, that process needs to happen. Throughout the season, not just when they get injured, they reach the end of their career and they're like, okay, now what do I do with my life? Who am I as a human? Right? So parents, you actually have a really big responsibility in this moment to help remind them that there are so many other factors to who they are in their life and sprinkling it in throughout the season in small doses. to minimize, yes, the burnout, but then also in the long run to help them transition out of the sport better and just quicker. And it's, it's just a more seamless process. I would say. I'm an English major and I was an English teacher. So I get really frustrated when media, politicians, they take words and they kind of re redefine them or say, okay. So words like liberal, being open minded, progressive, advancing, you know, wanting to, you know, wanting to improve. Yeah. Those words are really important to me and the, and, and what they really mean when we talk about growth mindset, growth mindset for a kid. How can a parent encourage them to really want to learn what their brain is doing and learn what their emotions are doing to them? How do we encourage that growth mindset for a 15 year old that just, just lost a big game, didn't play well? You know, you talked about preparing them for that and being proactive, but how can we get them to understand you're acting like a bomb just went off and really it was just a little candle. In the course of your life, right? It's not that loss means nothing, you know, what are we going to do to learn from it? How do we, how do we help our kids with that growth mindset? Well, I think first things first is like, you have to acknowledge that To them, it is, it is almost like a bomb went off and while you have the hindsight and the kind of wisdom and discernment to understand that that's not the case from like a parent's perspective, it's taking the moment to like validate like, hey, this really sucks. Like, I know you're probably feeling this pretty deeply right now, or whatever you're going through is really hard. Like, I feel you. I hear you. And I don't want you to stay in this place for too long, because what are we going to do if we're stuck here? If we are just stuck in these emotions, what are we doing? We're not going to go anywhere, right? So then the second question to that is, after you've given them some time to process, it's like, I want you to come back and tell me, Reflect on one thing that you learned from this experience or one insight, or just one thing that you're like, this is what I'm taking away. Right. And that helps them understand, okay, mom and dad want me to understand the functions of my emotions. and how they play a role in the grand scheme of things without getting too bogged down and overwhelmed in them. And that's, you know, I like to say that emotions, um, are not a destination. They're a launching point, right? We don't want to stay there for too long, but emotions provide insight. They provide information. And so what you want to do is help your athlete understand what that information is while not, you know, encouraging them to maybe suppress or avoid those discomfort, you know, uncomfortable emotions, right? Raise them. And if we wallow in them too long, what is that going to do for us? Yeah. That's right. I, and that's why I wanted to have you on because As adults, we've learned the hard way those answers, but that doesn't mean we know how to teach it or correct it. I remember as a high school basketball player, my coach, there was no fluff. I remember him saying, Rogers, don't shoot Rogers, don't dribble between your legs or behind your back. Don't play fancy, you know? And I, I practiced everything. I wanted to be prepared for everything. I wanted to be the best player on the planet. So. It was it was all of a sudden he was taking away my tools and I remember a game. I have a terrible memory. I have zero nostalgia in my brain, but I can remember a game. It was a huge game. We traveled a long way to play in a big tournament and I remember getting the ball out of bounds. And I was dribbling up the floor and a player came up to pressure me. And in every situation I've ever been in my life, I would have put the ball between my legs, gone right and exploded by the kid. But all I had in my head was don't be fancy. Don't dribble between your legs. And I sat there with the dribble in one hand and the, and the kid was like, somebody opened up the candy store and, and left. Right just took them all away from me and went in for a layup and I was frozen I was completely paralyzed because of that that that thought in my head. Yeah. Yeah You know, I needed you 30 some years ago. I needed myself Yeah How do we how do we as coaches? Keep from having that type of impact on a kid? Because I know I've done it to kids without even knowing I was doing it, you know? So I've been on, I had somebody do it to me and then I know I've done it to kids without really thinking about it. What are some things as coaches we can really work on in terms of our language and our tone? Are you referring to like having it be less instructional. Well, I think like instead of saying, don't be fancier, don't dribble between your legs. What are some situations where that's really good? And where are some situations where that can be not so good? You know what I mean? There's a, there's a way to say it with a negative perspective and there's a way to say it with a positive perspective. Yes. So the key here is you explain the why and a lot of coaches This is something some of them will do and they have no problem doing other coaches hesitate because they're like, why do they need to know what I'm the coach? They should just listen to me. Right? So I understand both sides and I, I've experienced both sides of things, but when you give feedback or when you give a cue or when you give instruction, um, make sure that you relay the significance, like tell them why it's relevant. And so basically that why does so many things. One, it actually builds a relationship because then they're saying, Oh coach, I can trust you. You're not just telling me what to do in this kind of like hierarchy power dynamic. You're saying, Hey, here, I'm giving you the tools and the here's why I'm giving you this feedback. Right. Right. Because then the second part to that is that instruction can then be adapted. on the athletes end to they can implement it into various circumstances, right? So they'll know, Oh, coach tell me, told me to do this specific thing because of this. And so in this instance, it's not relevant. So I'm not going to use it. Right. So it's the application of it that becomes more nuanced as opposed to very blanket statement. This is what I want. This is what I don't want. Right. So explaining the why. Again, can be like difficult at times for coaches, but it's really, really powerful. And also speaking from experience, and I'm sure you can attest to this. Athletes like knowing the why they actually hate. When they are like coach told me this and I have no idea why I don't know why coach is telling me like I've been Working with the cheer team. Why is coach telling me to put my hands here? I don't know. I'm a backstop Why am I putting my like, you know, it's like And it's just confusing and it's like I never learned it this way Why is coach telling me to do this and then it's like i'm not gonna remember that like and then they get frustrated, right? so it's like They want to know they want to know the why there's they're eager to seek that out So you're also, you know helping them out on that end Well, it's been such a big part of my coaching career because I didn't always get the why we're very rarely Did I get the why yeah, this was the 80s in the 90s This was before all the changes and you know, how we coach now is greatly different But I'm so concerned now as a coach that with removing instinct from a kid's perspective. I want them to be instinctual in every single way. So I'm always Kind of moving to the side going, okay, how do I, how do I coach them, teach them without getting in their way of what they're seeing and feeling and reacting, right. But I also need them to get better. I also need to understand, need them to understand the technique that's going to make this easier for them. It's going to lead to more consistency and. successes. So that's a hu coach. Uh, it doesn't mat coaching cheerleading and coaching basketball or ba Right. So what are some a a coach on that, that pers sure they're coaching wit that instinct that all kids have. Mm-Hmm. you know, what you're speaking to is so important and it's also inviting some critical thinking into the coaching process. Right? And when you're coaching, ask your athletes, well, what do you think? Right? Have them figure it out. Well, I think if I, I think my swing is off because I have too much power. I'm rotating too much. Um, from, you know, I, I think I need to tone it down a little bit. Right. Or, you know, coach, I think I'm getting, I'm getting too much in my head. I think I'm focusing too much on the tiny details. I need to think more big picture. Right. Right. Most of the time, and this is where it can get really tricky with this generation. Most of the time. They have an idea and of what they can do to fix it. They're scared to be wrong. And so they don't want to say it. Right. Or they'll look to coach so much for that piece of like kind of guidance that they, they lack that intuition. And they look to coach for everything to kind of for approval, for validation. Right. Right. And so the fear of failure comes into this of like, right. Well, I don't want to say what I think, because what if it's wrong? And then also the lack of just like, like you're mentioning intuition, uh, problem solving critical thinking where they, if they're challenged enough in that capacity consistently, they can develop that skill. And then, you know, I, I've heard from coaches all the time. It's like, they're so reliant on my feedback. I want them to take responsibility and do it on their own. And it's like part of that. Is on the coaches side to, to ask them and, and to facilitate the questions to be like, okay, let's put this together. Yeah. It's, it's, it, it's, it's one of those things that if I'm an athletic director ever again, it, it's what we're talking about in our coaching meetings every, every month. Yeah, you know, it's, it's just having, there's not enough coaching of the coaches too often. The AD is somebody that was a teacher or a coach and did well, you know, we're, we're good at what they did. They want a lot, but it doesn't mean they're good at teaching other people how to do it. Yeah. So I think it's so important that we continue to coach our coaches and it has to come from the athletic director. It has to come from the principal to say, okay, we all need to be reminded of this. Of how our language, how our tone, how our emotion, and I've been doing this for 27 years and I need it. I need somebody to say, hey, remember, this is what kids need. They need that collaboration. They need you to cooperate with them in a way where they feel like it's a shared journey. And we lose that sometimes, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're in it together. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna jump into your wheelhouse a little bit because this is really important for me talk to our audience about the power of visualization and imagery. Because you just thought you just made a great point about the volleyball swing and you know how to coach you know how coach might address that or. cheerleading spot or a dance move. What does, what does imagery and visualization when kids use it the right way and coaches actually articulate how important it is? What does that do for a student athlete's outcome? Uh, so many things, um, increases confidence, increases self efficacy, which is just a fancy word for self belief. Um, can help provide coping strategies for managing performance anxiety. So it does a lot. Um, and there are so many different ways that you can use visualization and imagery. And personally, in my opinion, I think it's really slept on in the world of mental performance. Like even myself, I was like, oh, visualization imagery, like that's me closing my eyes. And it's like, yeah, that's maybe one iteration of it, but there are like so many others. Right. Um, there's so many different types of visualization and imagery strategies that you could use. But what you're essentially doing is you're, um, preemptively kind of, um, prepping the brain for what's to come. And that process is really, really effective, right? So like when I close my eyes and I visualize myself performing, executing, playing, whatever it is, I'm actually activating the same kind of brain. neural pathways as if I actually was in, in the parts of the brain, if I actually was executing, right. Um, I also find that this is helpful for athletes, you know, like we don't want to push them physically too much. So having some opportunities to be like, okay, we don't need to do another drill, but let's sit down and like, just, I want you to imagine yourself doing right. Um, it, it activates the same parts of the brain, right. Um, I mean, the, the positives of it are just endless. Um, but I guess one that I have been latching on to more recently, and I'll just kind of share this, is basically creating strategies for situational things. And this is visualization in like a way that maybe you might not consider it, right? But like you have a meet coming up, you have a match coming up, you have a competition coming up, whatever it is, what is it going to be like? What is it going to feel like? When you enter that space, well, there's going to be a crowd, there's going to be noise, there's going to be lights, there's going to be sounds of squeaking shoes, right? You're going to hear, um, people bouncing the ball, right? Like imagine that feeling because sometimes when people enter those spaces, all of that stimulation can actually provoke performance anxiety, right? So it's like, okay. All of those things that I'm going to about to enter with, how am I going to approach that? Anticipate it. What's going to be my response? Because it's going to happen, like, it's going to happen. I'm going to walk in and all those things, yes, they're going to, it's going to come into life. Right. Yeah. So then the next step is what am I going to do? And something as simple as that can help an athlete walk into those high pressure instances where they can manage the pressure and the performance anxiety, and it doesn't completely demolish or debilitate their ability to execute. Yeah. It's, it's, I, I want to live in that world as a coach, you know what I mean? And I don't, and I haven't done a good job of it for 27 years. I've gotten better and better at it, but I haven't done the level that I think we all should be at. And I had a counselor tell me this a few months ago, because I told her there's this, you know, I'll walk out of a practice and I'll get in my car and I'll go, why did I say that to that kid? Why did I react the way I did? And she goes, I want you to try something. And I've started, I've actually started to do this with my athletes too. I said, I want you just to imagine, take five minutes every day, take a situation where you didn't handle it well and re film that situation in your brain, the way you wish you would have handled it. And I've started doing that with kids, like free throw situation, a free throw shooter in a basketball game. I want you to be in the stands. I want you to kind of step out of yourself and be in the stands. And I want you to watch yourself go through your routine and shoot that free throw, and I want you to envision it the way you know you're capable of doing it. And I want you to almost paint a picture of what you're doing and how you're doing it. And it's so amazing what happens when we can visualize ourselves doing it the right way, right? Yeah. It's so powerful. It is so powerful. Closing your eyes and seeing yourself doing the thing that you're trying to do under pressure successfully builds self belief. It builds self esteem. Um, what's funny is I do this exercise all the time when I do workshops where like I'll have them close their eyes. Well, when I'm working with, um, when I'm working with athletes, when I'm in this space and they have access, right. So in this instance, like I'm going to kind of hop on your example, like a free throw, I would say, okay, close your eyes. Imagine yourself shooting this free throw. Open your eyes. Shoot the free throw. I would say eight out of 10. They're making that for, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. So like, and I, and I use that and like, it's so, I, I mean, it's hilarious to me because they're like, wow, way worse. And I'm like, yeah, what did you think? Like, I, this is not magic, you know, like, yeah. It actually, it works, right? So, um, yeah, it, it, it does wonders. Yeah, and there's so many different ways to get there. You know, whatever is comfortable. I remember being a teenager playing high school basketball and I saw this, somebody had filmed Michael Jordan shooting, practicing his form in a mirror. He wanted to see what that form looked like and he would repeat it 20, 30 times in the mirror. Yeah. And what that did for my shot, and I was never a great shooter, but what that did for my confidence in my shot to see what I was doing, not just having someone coach me, but to be able to see what I was doing, see my elbow, see my release point, see my energy, see where my head was. It changed how I shot the basketball because I could always come back to it and go, I, and how I teach that way, I teach kids how to be their own mechanic. All right. You know, you don't need somebody to coach you once you know how to do it, but you have to be able to coach yourself. You have to be able to understand where you're failing, right? Yes. Yep. Yeah, you're speaking about a process called deliberate practice. Um, which basically, uh, operates off of the, uh, saying insanity is doing the same thing over and over again without changing, right? Deliberate practice. Expecting a different result. Yeah, expecting a different result, yeah. Deliberate practice goes, uh, you know, directly against that of like, you have to change something, but if you don't know what to change, how, like, how are you going to go about this, right? And so there, there are methods, there are strategies, there are steps to help bring your awareness. To your, you know, to the mechanics of the situation so that you can understand the way that your body moves and understand the way that it needs to move. Um, so that you can execute. That's fantastic. Yeah. Danny, you know, I could talk to you all day about this and I, I could put our whole audience. I know you could. And I love it. I learned so much every time we talk. I'm, I'm, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna. make you sit through me dealing with all the other things I have in my head, give our, give my audience one piece of significant advice. And I know you live in the world of significant advice, but if we've got parents and coaches and student athletes listening, what's that one thing that you, you want them to walk away from this, this conversation with? You have the tools that you need inside of you. Everything that you need is already there. It's about fine tuning your own process so that you can really bring those skills forward and they can shine through to their fullest potential. And I think sport allows you to do that. And that's part of the reason why I love it. And part of the reason why I'm in this field, but there is so much untapped potential. Yeah. That's what I think provides hope. Um, and I think parents need to understand that, that, that advice is for them too. They have so much in them to be the parent they want to be. And they're capable of being the parent. Coaches have the ability to be the coach they want to be, right? I love that. That's great advice. Demi, where can our audience find you if they want to get time with you or learn more about you or get some help for themselves? Yeah, so I am very active on Instagram. My business name is beyond horizons performance. So you can follow me at beyond horizons performance and then I'll give Matt a link to my calendar so you can schedule parents if you want to schedule a free. 30 minute consult call you can, and we can just chat and I can see how I can support you and your athlete. And, my website is also a great option beyond horizons performance. com, but I would say Instagram, and my website, and then, if you want to chat, via phone, we can do that too. Yeah, and you'll see it in the notes of the podcast notes if you want to connect with her in any of those ways, Debbie, thank you so much. And I'm also going to put a plug in, you and I are doing sports psychology, sports performance webinars, just about every other week through Christmas and we're Our goal is to do them throughout the spring as well. But, you can go to, Coach Matt Rogers on Facebook. You can go to Beyond Horizons performance on Instagram. You can go to Demi, Agabi on Facebook. If you want to sign up and register for those, we'd love to have you. we're going to continue these conversations, but we're going to take a part of them and do a webinar with them. And we want families and student athletes and coaches to come on the webinar and ask us questions. Yeah, we'll, we'll help you with solutions. We'll help you with, different ways of thinking to, to get you to help you get one step closer to where you want to be, right? Yes. Yeah. I am excited to hear from the parents. I want to know what's going on and I want to know their questions. So, um, and how I can help. So please hop on if you're available. I'm thrilled to do them. Thank you so much for today. And I'll look forward to our next conversation. Yeah. Thank you, Matt. That's a wrap for this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast. I'd like to thank coach Demi Agaibi for sharing her fantastic knowledge on helping athletes perform at their best. I wish I would have had access to her during my playing days. If you're enjoying these conversations, please click that subscribe and like buttons. If you're interested in working with me or scheduling me to speak at your school or organization, you can schedule a free strategy session at CoachMattRogers. com. Hey, thanks again for listening. Have a significant week. Goodbye until next time.