Episode #58: Dip Metress

Building a Basketball Powerhouse with Coach Dip Metress

In this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, host Matt Rogers sits down with one of the most accomplished coaches in college basketball, Coach Dip Metress, the head men’s basketball coach at Augusta University. Now, in his 21st season at Augusta and 29th season as an NCAA head coach, Coach Metress has built a legacy of winning, player development, and sustained excellence—boasting over 570 career wins and never a losing season.

We dive deep into his coaching philosophy, how he consistently recruits and develops top-tier talent, and what it takes to maintain a championship culture year after year. Plus, Coach Metress shares invaluable insights into leadership, the evolving landscape of college basketball, and the mindset required for long-term success on and off the court.

Don’t miss this insightful conversation with a true coaching legend! Learn more about Coach Dip Metress by visiting his bio page: Dip Metress - Augusta University.

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Transcript

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Welcome to the Significant Coaching Podcast, where we dive into the world of college athletics, leadership, and the journey of student athletes. I'm Matt Rogers, and today I have the privilege of sitting down with a true legend in the world of college basketball, Coach Dip Mitras, the longtime head coach of the Augusta University Jaguars. Coach Mitras is entering his 21st season at Augusta, and his 29th season overall as an NCAA head coach. His coaching record speaks for itself. He has over 570 career wins. And hear this when I say it, because this is important. Zero losing seasons in his tenure at Augusta. Amazing. But beyond the numbers, his impact on his players and the program is immeasurable. Under his leadership, Augusta has been a dominant force, earning multiple Peach Belt Conference championships, NCAA tournament appearances, and even a national championship game berth in 2022. From guiding players to record breaking careers, to creating a culture of excellence, Coach Mitras has built Augusta into a powerhouse. all while staying true to his core principles of hard work, discipline, and player development. He's a coach who not only builds winning teams, but also shapes young men into leaders on and off the court. Today, we'll talk about his journey, his coaching philosophy, and what it takes to sustain long term success in college basketball. Plus, we'll get his insights on recruiting, leadership, and the evolution of the game. Without further ado, here's my conversation with the great Dip Mitras Coach, it's so great to see you. I'm going to jump right into this. Can we talk substitutions? Paul West had gotten to my head 30 years ago. Oh, wow. There's a name for the play. Yes. I've had some great conversations with coach West and I loved how he didn't do it a lot and the guys that have followed running the system have done five out five in. I've been watching your team play. I love the speed of the way your team plays. I love the pace. I love the way you use your post. There's a lot of things you're doing that have gotten lost in the world of high school and college sports, but I've seen you substitute five at a time. Is that something you've done a lot over the years? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I can't remember exactly when it started. we had a great player Keyshawn Sherrill. I would never take him out of the game. We weren't playing well, trying to get some more guys engaged. this actually came from Jim Laranaga when he was at George Mason. Once your team gives up six points, you're coming out. Actually, I think back my first year at Augusta, we were playing West Georgia. So if you give up six points team, you're coming out. Next team comes in. Years later, I did it to jumpstart our team a little bit. And I'll never forget the first time we did it. One of my sisters said, we're going to take Keyshawn out. I said, we have to get him a blow. The first time we did, I think we went, the second group went on like an 18 to 6 run. And I'm like, okay, so it's not something we do all the time. We did it for about four or five games to get some guys engaged. I usually do it early in the year, to force myself to play guys. But now it's something, stole from Jim Laranega did it. I don't know how many points he did with, but I determined six points. Hey, you give up two threes, your group's coming out. We've all coached games and heard this one years and years ago. You cannot win a game in the first five minutes, but you can lose one. Okay. That's right. So sometimes, I was pondering doing it, tomorrow, but I don't think I'm going to because of our personnel, but no, I don't mind doing things outside the box. I love it. for me, it was always such a great way. you're busting the kid's tail every day in practice. you're expecting so much out of them every day. Can I find a minute and a half a couple times a game to put five kids in and say, Hey, go give us a spark. We're going to run a different defense for 90 seconds. I want you to bust your tail. Get us a couple offensive rebounds. Get us a couple buckets, get a couple steals. And I think it's a great motivator for your bench who may not see the court much. Yeah, you know when we were 0 4 this year, I was pondering to do it in the fifth game. And I remember saying to myself, the only reason we can't do it is there really wasn't much difference between number 8 and number 12. Yeah. Okay. So why does 10 get to play in front of 11? So I didn't do it because of whatever, injuries, guys out, sickness, whatever. So I didn't do it. But one year I looked around and said we got 10 guys. We've got Two good really good players. and we would have one that one year we did a five six game We would literally scrimmage and say whoever wins starts tomorrow in the six one six point scrimmage like I said, you got to do things to jumpstart your team. You got to think differently sometimes especially a division two level You don't have the egos as much, even though they do have egos, it's just something I'm willing to try anything to win a game. It's all about getting that score right. When you think about recruiting and you're building out your roster two, three years in advance, how much of that goes into your head? Obviously we've got to have a backup point guard. We've got to have a backup center. We got to, we got to have depth at every position, but do you put much thought into. What that second unit you want them to look like, or is it just, we figure that out when practice begins? That's a good question. I guess I call it gathering assets. So we at Augusta for my long time, my whole career, I've always liked having a guy who played with his back to the basket. So I would like to have my program, three guys that are comfortable playing with their back to the basket. And I would argue, I'd like to have three guys that can play the point guard spot. Okay, everything else has almost become interchangeable. You have to make a decision sometimes on that four spot Do you want the athlete rebounder or do you want the shooter? I'm old fashioned. I contend the rebounder guy affects game just as much as the shooter sometimes But that guy who plays that four spot has to be able to go out and guard the floor So to answer your question more times than not, we're just gathering assets nowadays trying to figure out Okay, these are the guys returning. This is what we can expect to them. Hopefully they're getting better And then as we bring guys in, we're going to figure out How they can impact the game and where we're going to play and what we're going to do offensively. That with the NFL draft coming up, We got to bring in the best player, we'll figure it out. We already have three great defensive linemen, but the kid that's going to be sitting there for us is a great DN. We're going to bring them in. We'll figure out how to deal with it. Is that kind of your mindset? Yeah, it's true. It's funny. I was listening to a podcast this morning, my morning walk. And the guy alluded to it's amazing how many times the NFL is wrong about quarterbacks, right? Everything's based on the quarterback. It's nine out of ten. It's crazy Yes, and you spend all this time and research to try to figure out how to get your quarterback right. Sometimes you just take a guy, i've taken guys. I look at him and go, you know He's a good athlete. Maybe he'll develop he can do this. He can't do that And we always say when we sign guys, can they be a top eight guy when they walk in the door? A lot of times they can't, Hey, you gotta be number 12, and, you get better. So no, sometimes it's strictly, you have to have a point and you have to have a post and obviously some guys who can make shots nowadays. I always told my staff, there's two things that I was looking for. I want a kid. If you're going to, if you're going to bring a kid to me, He better have the potential to be better than what we have right now. Don't send me a kid that I've got to develop that may be our 12th man. And then I always said, I want a junkyard dog. I was like you, if you're going to bring me a four, man, I want that kid. I want a brawler. I want a kid. That's going to get on the floor, get every rebound, run the floor, like a deer. Do you have some of those things when you guys are looking at kids? Is there things that fit your soul? I'm a guy looking for size inside, so I've been fortunate to coach what two seven footers here Another six nine six ten kid right now. I like size when you wake up in the morning. You're still six ten Now you have to have good guards are very important for success. But no, I like guys from winning programs I like guys that stay at the same high school. I like guys that are loyal You know if I see any sense of disloyalty I'm going to research it. My assistant will bring me a name. I'll go, I see three high schools. I'm not, I'm already, my view is already tainted. but sometimes nowadays you have to investigate every situation because. Sometimes it wasn't the right fit. It was nothing or that's what they weren't good enough to play at that school. And they went back to the public school or went to a different school because they weren't good enough. So nowadays I don't think there's a cookie cutter approach at all. I love that mindset. I've only watched, a few of your games. So you might say, Matt, that was just a special circumstance, but I see you using your post in and out. So quickly, so in depth, when you're, it doesn't matter if it's your center, your power four, when they pop out and they're swinging the ball, man, they're active. Yeah. there's no holding. is that a primary principle for you in your office? yeah, we're a big player ball movement type team. Yeah. I firmly, the ball should switched sides of the floor. We're averaging 80 points a game and we don't run on makes on a missed shot. We're just trying to get deep in a corner. reverse the ball, go into whatever we're running offensively. right now it's a four out situation, and just keep the ball moving. I was an ex point guard growing up many years ago. The stuff we put on point guards nowadays. It's a lot like leadership, communication, talking, directing, getting on guys. But I see a lot of teams. I would never like to have been the two guys standing in the corner, okay, that don't ever get to move and literally that's the best shot, but you haven't moved all game. You literally stand in the corner. So I, like I said, I'm always a big believer in Paul, player and ball movement. Now with our posts, I've, I've had some really good ones. I'm not a big guy moving the post block to block. I go away from you and then come back to you. So we can get a deeper points touch. Sometimes when you reverse the ball, by the time it gets reversed, the post is not there, right? Like the Carolina break was unbelievable. I'm getting the ball inside with Caroline Dean Smith. No, we'll see anybody running anymore. Getting down to court trying to get some quick reverse it high low into the wing into the post I've evolved in this thing I started first started coach down 30 years ago running the flex. you evolve from the flex with the down screen flex with no down screen flex with flare screens I remember you alluded earlier to Paul Westhead. he went to coach at George Mason, which is where I'm from originally. And, so I, you steal things from everybody and, we've just solved on as long as we have ball and player movement, we're fine. Now I'll let my good players take shots. Say if you're open, shoot it, but you better demonstrate you can make it in practice. it's so key that they understand the difference between I'm open and what a good shot is. Very. Yeah. It's one of the hardest things for me to teach. If you emphasize rebounding and I do, the guy takes a shot. That's not a good shot, but you don't know what's going up. It's hard to rebound that. Okay. yep. That's where shot selection is important. We have a guy who's scoring a bunch of points for us this year. Hey man, like he's got the green light. He's gonna shoot it. Don't look at him. Go rebound the miss. That's his role right now. it is a challenge and, shot selection is something that, that we really harp on a lot. How do you talk about that practice? Getting guys to understand he's got the green light. For a reason. do you stress that in practice? And how do you stress that? So guys understand not everybody's got this green light all the time. We want everybody to shoot. We don't want anybody to be a statue out there that nobody's going to guard. But how do you get that in everybody's head? But this is the guy when he's open, we gotta give him the ball. I blow the whistle and say that's a bad shot, which is old fashioned. Okay. Now we don't do it early. Okay. So early on, we do a lot of drill work, whatever, shooting drills, shooting things in player development, and I will tell guys when we're turning guys know it, if you're not making these shots. When there's no defense and the popcorn's not popping, you're definitely not going to take them when we're in a game. you want guys to expand their game, but not at the cost of winning. No, we're pretty direct hey, don't shoot that, don't shoot that shot. If you're, women's coach one time called a hit or sit. You hit it or you sit. All right, if you miss you sit like now not with your best players And you have to have a little latitude with the good players you get i've been coached whatever 10 all americans here okay, you got to give them a little leeway But no i'm direct like we're not taking that shot if you're going to take that shot, you're not going to play here. I can never tell you when not to shoot or when to shoot I can tell you when not to shoot Sometimes hey, that's a good shot. Take it. I only can tell you when not to shoot. Like I can't tell you when to shoot it. If you're a good player, you're going to shoot shots that increase your chance to be productive. That's right. Watch your guys play. You can tell that it's not don't shoot and then that's the conversation ends. Your guys are so aggressive off that three point line catch attacking. Is that your alternative to don't, yes and no. One thing we'll do is once you pass the ball, 90 percent of what we do. You're going to screen for somebody, right? That's one of the hardest things. What are you doing? I was passive. I'll go screen. Let's go move player movement ball movement and, the ball, the more the ball moves, the easier you can drive close out where we are not a, we are not a volume shooting three point team this year. We only were. At one point we were 270th in the country in three point attempts. However, we were 30, 30th in three point percentage. So I think we're taking the right ones. Okay, now somebody said you should take more of them. No, because we can't. Okay, because we don't have the personnel. Two years ago, whenever we played national championship, I think we shot 39 percent from three point land. We started two guys that were elite level shooters. Okay. Right now our team doesn't dictate that. And, it's all about winning and you have to adapt everything, what you're doing personnel wise to winning. And it's a great message for high school coaches to understand that you have to build a system around what talent you have. So that's my next question. Are you finding when you go watch a high school game or you get film, are you finding what you used to be able to find? Or is it getting harder to find those kids that know how to run the floor, know how to move without the ball, know how to play man to man defense? Is it more of a challenge for you now? Yes, it's definitely harder. Okay, let's go to the post. When I go watch a bigger kid play, if they run up, if they run the court, and they post up, I'm already interested. If they're stopping and shooting threes, first off, if they're 6'10 and shooting threes, we're not getting them in Augusta, okay? They're going some different level. So I want bigs that can run the floor and get to the rim and post up. Not all of them, but definitely the back of the basket. I want point guards that command the gym, okay? We had a point guard here, player Tyree Myers, and he played a great high school team in Mount St. Joseph, Mount St. Joseph in Baltimore. Sticks, who plays in the NBA for the Pacers, played with four division one guys. Maybe two guys playing professionally. Every time they got a miss shot, they threw it to him. Because they knew they were going to get it back. On the point guard front, just because you bring the ball up the court, it's not a point guard, okay? There's a lot of guys over dribbling, they're trying to, call for ball screens, just go and attack and move the ball. that's, the points in the post are the hardest things to find because nobody wants to play with their back to the basket, and nobody really wants the heat of playing for court. that demands a lot of the last thing, which you nev somebody who throws the b right. Nobody's posting. if a kid is a post feeder in college. Okay. And It's frustrating for a gu to put the ball inside. W basic drills, fake high throw low bounce passes in the post, on a good team. So it's, it is wild, definitely wild. And that's what's so much fun watching your kids play. It doesn't matter what position or size your guys all know how to be aggressive in the post. They all have great foot work. They all know how to be physical. They all know how to use their shoulders and their feet. so that's what's a struggle for me is when I go watch a high school game. I'm seeing a 67 kid. He runs the floor every time and he sees the ball maybe once out of 10 possessions. And I'm like, what are we doing? You're just making your guards job harder. Yeah, it's hard, the recruiting boys definitely changed through the years. I still like guys that are on winning teams, the value of going to watch a high school game where there's 2000 people in the stands and their rivals is great, with the rise of all these odd prep schools and all this stuff, you watch really talented guys play and you're like, Why is there nobody in the stands? It's because there's only 30 people in the school, okay? It is frustrating. the coachability factor of kids, is hard because I'm a demanding guy. The biggest thing I see is the pace of a college practice or workout, okay? It's so different than high school. even guys from great high school programs, the pace, and I always tell them the same thing. If you're going three quarters speed in something, a sprint, you're finishing last in college. I don't care if you're in shape or not, And the guys that figure out, hey, I got to do this, usually end up getting better in their careers. You don't do what you've done over the last 25 years by yourself. Obviously, it's your brainchild, it's your direction, it's your vision. Let's say you're hiring me off the street. I'm going to be your assistant coach next year. What does that development look like for me? And a new person on your staff, you not get more gray hair, not have to work 24 hours a day. What does that look like to get your staff prepared to do what you want to do? So we'll, I've always said this because I'm usually bringing young guys in. They're going to have some weakness. in their arsenal of coaching, because they don't have much experience. We don't, we're a Division II school, it's an entry level job, you do well and you move on. it takes me a little time to figure out what they're not good at, okay? On the flip side, they better develop skills to get guys in the weight room, all right? Player development. I let them coach in practice. therefore the first thing I have to always tell every new assistant is you have to have a better voice you can't talk to the team with your back to the team. They don't know that because they've never been Running a drill. Okay, and I've watched them develop through the years I got guys who come to my practices and they'll say man This guy's really got a voice now when they first got it, they struggled But I'm like, hey, man, you're either gonna get better at this If you can't command the gym, you're never gonna be a head coach ever now on the flip side, one of my favorite things to do is go watch other teams practice I've probably seen over a hundred Division 1, Division 2, junior colleges practice through my years. Only thing good about being in the South is they fire coaches all the time. So therefore, you get a chance to see the new coach at Georgia Tech, or the new coach at Georgia, or Georgia South. So anyway. I noticed early on, I joked about it, I see some programs where the assistant coach could be doing their Walmart list over there. I gotta get eggs, I gotta get milk, I gotta get butter. I want my assistant coaches involved. And, now there's a point in practice where I'm the voice, okay? sometimes you can go to a practice and I won't talk for the first 25 minutes. My assistants are doing breakdown stuff and I got a couple volunteers who are really good this year. So we're doing a lot of different segments. when the time comes for me to talk, I'm talking, But I firmly believe in, I'm always putting those guys in a situation when guys leave here and they go on the next level, the people they work for say, man, they do a lot. Yeah, of course they have their vision to assist you do everything. it is neat watching a development, but like I said, I demand them to coach, and teach guys, Hey, they're not doing this. Teach them how to use their chest on wall ups, teach them how to get their hands back. So it's a great process watching their growth. I love it because you look back at my career when I had really great years. I had a great staff. I had people that really understood what they're doing. And when we had a little down years, it was typically I had a really young assistant that was really raw. And I ended up having to do their job and mine and you burn yourself out and you burn the kids out because you're the only voice they ever hear. So I love that component where you're talking from day one, you've got to have that. So literally, guys are coming in and out most of the day. I'll just walk out there and just watch. I won't say anything. Now I might say, hey, listen, you got to pivot this way. Hey, make sure we're using our weak hand on this. But for the most part, they're running the workouts and I'm reserving. And even in the preseason with our skill stuff. They're running it. I'm observing now. We've gone over. Hey, let's make sure we're getting this shot of what we're doing or hey Let's cut down the ball handling to five minutes to post ten minutes. Hey, make sure we incorporate some defense I let them have the freedom to do it. They come up with good drills, too I love it. Yeah, that's when you have an assistant that knows they can be creative and you want them to be creative. All of a sudden, they're giving you ideas about offense and about defense. And hey, coach, what about this? Or I just saw this on film, and all of a sudden, it's like you've got an army developing your program and you're having so much more fun. It's funny you say that sometimes I'll notice it. I'll say, okay, hey, I want you to do a blockout drill. I want you to do a closeout drill. And they look at me, I go, what? What are you gonna do? You better know by the time we go to practice now, I don't do that often. My daughter just got into college coaching and she's at, Mercer University, and she said to her boss that she works for, she worked for, the guy at Louisville. He would say in the middle of the practice, Hey, right now we need a rebound drill. Wow, that's hard. Yeah, to know is not on the practice plan. I thought I was, I'm going to try that one of these days. Hey, quickly go do something real quick and see how quickly, cause or being a head coach, you can be, master your practice plan, but you gotta go, okay, let's get rid of this. Let's focus on this. So no, that's a neat little trick. I'm going to use that one probably. You and I have been doing this for so long. You could drop us in a gym anywhere in the country and somebody go do a rebounding drill. We got, okay, I got 10 in my arsenal. We'll use this one right now. Yes. I can bring you into a basketball camp. Never met you and say. Okay. You got 20 minutes to speak. What do you would not say, what do you want to talk on? Yeah, that's right. 20 minutes. I got it. Okay. You can talk about anything, if I say I want you to talk 20 minutes on help side defense, you can do it. 20 minutes on foot care, how to put it, you could do it. Okay. So it's all the evolution. Sometimes his coaches is amazing when I get them 22, 23 years old, watching when they're 35 coaching other places. It's so much fun. I've got two of my kids that are coaching high school ball in Wisconsin. They're winning state championships and competing for state championships every year. I could see About 5 percent of what I taught them. And then they've just, what they've done with the other 95%. It just amazes me, what they've created with their own vision out of the little things that I taught them. We, when I was in high school or college, I played for a legendary high school coach and I coached a summer league team and we had a baseline out, end of the game, get the ball in bounds. And we ran what we ran in college. It's actually the same thing that Greg Marshall ran when he was at Wichita state, and, we ran at the game. He's Hey, Where'd you come up with that? And I go we ran it in college. He goes, I don't like it. You didn't have enough outlets, okay, but his view was he had a great lie one time You throw the ball along the ball can hit a rock. I said coach. We're not playing outside. Okay, we got a gym nowadays Okay, but no he has a vision for basketball that he had for 30 years I have a vision for basketball what I want now i've adapted involved, but there are certain things Like we didn't get, we got a rebound the other day. And I talked to two or three different division one assistants. I know I say, Hey, when you guys got rebound, how do you guys address it? And we talked through what they did. He go, what do you do? I go, Hey man, for 40 minutes, we are on for two on two, three on three rebound. I still believe in that. If we have an error, we're going to fix it tomorrow. Absolutely. The game plan, second Howard garden ball. That doesn't mean anything right now. So that's where I guess that's where I'm a little old fashioned. If we have an issue, we are going to address it that next day in practice at the beginning of practice. I love it. And I'm the same way. It drives me crazy. I go into every season saying we're going to be the number one team in terms of shape. We're going to be the number one team in physicality on defense. We're going to be the number one team physicality on rebounding. And if I see a dip in any of that, we're going back to the well, we are hitting that harder than you can imagine. It's funny. The college games involved a lot of people shoot three pointers. If you listen to post game interviews, and I do that, I go on YouTube and listen to guys post game interviews. Yeah, me too. Undoubtedly, they're going to say, we didn't match the other team's physicality. It is, the word physicality comes up because the game is completely different than I started out, okay? You have teams shooting 35 3s or 25 3s or whatever they're doing. The common theme is, we didn't address physicality and we turned the ball over too much, okay? Let's believe, let's keep believing those things every day. That's right. Let's transition to the 18 year old coming into your gym for the first time. What's the hardest thing for you to teach that young man that's starting in your program? And what's your expectations for them to learn it the way you want them to learn it? Okay. Pace and communication. Okay. Those are two things. And, you gotta have the pace to these workouts. You gotta have the communication skills. There is defensive communication and there's offensive communication. If a guy is open, I always say, open your mouth, throw me. Hey yo, I'm open. Yeah. That's okay. That's not being selfish. Okay. So the first thing is pace and communication, I know I see you wrote a book on significant recruiting. People think of me, if you want to get recruited nowadays, get a sickle cell test done. People are like, what? You have to have a sickle cell test done to work out a division two or division one school. you have to have a current physical. Man, I'm just telling you, you have to have a sickle cell test. Interesting. You have to have a current physical. Most kids have current physicals because they're in the school year. All right, they've changed Division II rules. A high school kid can come in today. He can play a high school game on Friday. And practice was on a Saturday during the season. They just changed it recently. I'm like, you're kidding me? Yes. It's unbelievable. Okay. Now my brother's a high school coach. I'm trying to win a championship. Last thing I wanna do is somebody to go work out and get hurt. We've done that. But you can't do it. Even don't have a sickle cell test. Explain that to me. I don't know. It's a rule. They used to have it. You used to be able to sign a waiver, okay? But Division 1 and Division 2, I do not know about Division 3. I do not know about NAI. I know Division 1 because if you don't have the sickle cell test, the coach can't watch you work out. If you talk to any Division 2 coach, if they're doing it the way the NCAA mandates it, you have to have a sickle cell test and a current physical on file. Okay, and now actually yeah, actually this year's kids. Supposedly we were born are getting sickle cell tested. You still have to show proof of it Okay, we had one person whose mother is a nurse. She's wow. I said and she looked at his records when he got sickle cell test done when he was born. Yeah. You have to go back and look at my kids. I don't even know if my kids have had it. No. If they're going to play college sports and I'm assuming it's every sport. Matter of fact, I think it is. I know women's, I'm pretty sure it's softball and baseball too. I'm going to check that out. That's really interesting. All right. So let's. pace and communication. It's terribly hard to teach. Terribly hard to get'em to buy into. What are your strategies in terms of. How do you go about developing that? Do you, is it more you or is it 50 percent your leaders and your older guys? the way it works at division two, you can do individual workouts. Yeah. So you got they've changed that too, but let's say you have four guys in a gym. What we try to do is put one new guy with two returners. And they're good. This is the pace we expect. Okay. Now I tell them the same thing. Go as hard as you can for as long as you can, and then step out. Like I'm okay with you stepping out, but what you don't want to do is go half speed the whole time in order to survive a workout. Okay. So the pace is the first thing. The communication thing is And you got to stay on them. You got to stay on them. You got to stay. And I would argue we're an okay communication team. we need to be better. And, we had a situation in the last game, our two best players are like discussing and arguing about whether the guy called a ball screen. I told the guy, there was no ball screen. That's why you didn't hear anything. You chose to turn your hips to guard that way, okay? But there was communication. Same thing, if you're a player and you only communicate to a teammate, Or if you don't communicate to a teammate, why do you expect them to communicate back with you? so I have a young point guard brought in the other day. I said listen, you got to communicate better And he looked at me because when he does something wrong, you have to correct it on the court You're the point guard you run this gym, but if you don't communicate now, you don't have to this I've never had a post guy be the best communicator in a gym. No way. That's not their job They got off screen coverages, but they're never gonna be that guy. It has to be the guards Okay, so but if you're not communicating with each other on the court and do something, right? How can you do something wrong? I'll tell you a criticism I have of when I go watch high school practices I am really demanding, okay, as a coach. Probably overboard. I can't tell you how many times I say, Hey, that's good, that's the way to pull off two feet. I try to encourage them when they do something right, so when I get on them, it's the first thing they've heard is not me yelling at them because they missed a box out. Hey, that's a good pass. that's the way to play. Hey, that's the way to play with physicality right now defensively. You have to tell them when they do something right. Otherwise, they don't know. They don't even know they're doing it right, high school kids. And it better be 3 to 1, too, because they're only going to hear the good. Yes. You might say 40 good things, but you tell them they were lazy on that defensive play, or they didn't rotate the way they were supposed to, or they didn't hustle back. That's all they heard was that negative. No, no question. That's all their mom had heard, too, probably. That's all their mom had heard, yep. but it is hard. It's hard. And, even with my assistants, I tell them, Hey, encourage these guys when they do something. If we're developing a post player right now, if he makes the right move, Hey, good move, doesn't matter if it goes in right now, like we're trying to teach you to play over a certain shoulder. So yeah it's difficult. Let's go back to your the pick and roll conversation. You know that you had that situation teaching a post player to say, Hey, you're good. You're good. No screen. No screen. There's slip. You're good. That's just as important as saying pick right screen, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. It's the forever communication. We never stopped talking. We're not just talking in certain situations. We're always talking. Yes. And one of the, I see this, I'm not recruiting somebody. When the shooter goes over on the sideline, whatever, he's a two guard, and he frames it and stands like this when he didn't get the ball, when a guy shoots it, that's it. I'm not recruiting him. That's being selfish, man. Just tell the guy, hey, I was open. Don't stand there and show the point guard up. I tell our guys all the time. Open your mouth. He will throw you the ball. He didn't see it. He didn't purposely not throw you the basketball. It's hard. It's hard. But like I said, it's something you have to harp on. I don't put it on texting and all that stuff. Guys didn't communicate much when I played either. but when you're winning teams, gyms are never quiet. Ever. But it's getting kids to understand this is a marathon, not a sprint. Yes. You're going to tell me you're open maybe five or six times. And then I'm going to realize. I don't want you to have to tell me, I got to get you the ball without you telling me. Yes. And all of a sudden, because we've played together long enough and you communicated with me what you need, what you're seeing, and you're helping me with my vision. All of a sudden, I don't need you to say those things now. Now I'm getting you the ball before you even have to think about it. Absolutely. And the next time he may not get me the ball, Hey, I was open. Okay. I got you. It's, it's definitely a challenge, as you build a team and try to build a winning program. Alright, coach, we are, and you tell me if I'm wrong, I feel like we're in a part of the history of sports.'cause college sports, you look back 20 years ago there was, there, there wasn't a lot of major changes. We all had a phone in our house. We could pick up with a cord. For 80 years in the last 15, 20 years, the whole world has changed. faster than it ever has. We're looking at the NCAA, everything's changed. Portal, NIL, NLI, practices, how we practice, when we practice, what we can do with recruits. What has been the biggest challenge for you dealing with all of this change or has it benefited you? That's a good question. if I'm dealing with transfer portals, the biggest issue from a recruiting standpoint, if you want to go there first, a kid is not having success at a Division I school. They used to be able to go to Division II school and play right away. Now everybody has that app, right? So from a recruiting standpoint, all you got to do is go out and find division one transfer. It's a little bit harder than that. There's an enormous amount of bad players transferring to other bad programs as division one level. Let's leave it at that. Okay. So from that aspect, that's changed a little bit yet. So from a coaching standpoint, I think you just got to adapt to it. Do I like, when I played in college, the three point shot came in. And then it was around for a while. And then there's been an explosion since Steph Curry. Hey, you have to be able to shoot open threes in transition nowadays. Good teams are going to lock and chase you and not be able to give you many threes. But you have to have the players to make those shots. So I, it's changed, but I still love the game. It's a great. Like I said, I wear shorts. Okay. I've been a head coach for 31 years. I've been involved in college athletics for 37, 38 years. watching their growth is unbelievable. I'm going to be involved in our, hall of fame for a university and we're inducting somebody into the hall of fame. Who's the very first person I recruited here. when the Hall of Fame committee reached out and said, Hey, this person, I said whoa. This is the guy that needs to go in there while the other guy's numbers. I don't want to hear about the other guy's numbers or stats. this is the guy that turned this program around. Okay. So you still see those impacts. The challenge of coaching nowadays is getting guys to buy into, Hey, listen, you've just played 16 minutes. You went over three and you still played well. Okay. Six years ago, I remember having a conversation with a kid. I said, you had the ball in your hands.'cause I went and timed it for 36 seconds and he kinda looked at me. I go, the ball was in your hand for 36 seconds. In that 36 seconds, you had two turnovers and two shots. I can't play you now. They can't argue with the data because I went there. You can't give guys false information You guys show it to him. Okay. Hey, you've only got this many offensive rebounds This guy has more and he's playing less than you. It's got to change So I think brutal honesty still works brutal I just do worse people want brutal honesty and if they don't want brutal honesty don't come here when I recruit him I say listen, I'm going to be firm fair and consistent. Nobody does. And I'm a firm believer is in the fact that I'm never going to assume that you're going to learn this on your own. Yes. My job is to get you from A to B as quickly as I can get you there. Because the sooner I can get you there, the more I can do with you. Yes, it's definitely challenging times, my daughter's in coaching now she's it's her third year coaching what she's going into right now is not what I went into 35 years ago whatever years ago it's a completely different mindset there's nothing I can't give her a lecture this is how we used to do it how we used to do it ain't working anymore you know it ain't just not happening anymore you've got a pocket full of credit in your pocket that you can There's things that you can do that a new coach cannot. Your university knows you, they trust you, they believe in you. They know how you develop. They know the good men that are leaving your program and what they look like. If you're a new coach coming into a program and you don't have that trust, it's a completely different world. It is, no doubt. Coach, I do a ton of recruiting stuff. What does your board look like? And it doesn't have to be an actual board. Are you guys looking at eighth and ninth graders? Are you evaluating sophomores? When does it start? And what does that process look like for you in the world of the portal? Are you talking about a change in here or not? This is a change time. Yes. I've been here 20 years, four years ago, I could probably tell you every sophomore that was good in the area. And I say the area within, an hour radius. And then it became I knew the juniors. Okay. Now, not because of the, yes, because of the portal, you got to evaluate kids around your area first. Okay. So we recruit a lot of international kids. We recruited Georgia, a lot in Washington DC area, and then wherever else we can find them. Okay, and what I see now because of the portal coaches don't develop relationships with high school coaches anymore And I would argue don't even develop relationship with the AU coaches They're just looking at somebody's number and trying to establish that relationship So for example, if you tell me about there's a kid in Denver, Colorado Yeah, the head coach at MSU Denver Was head coach at Belmont Abbey, which is where I played and coached. His last game coaching at Belmont Abbey was Augusta and saved regionals. He got the job at MSU Denver. I grabbed him after the game and I really didn't know him. I said, hey, I need to talk to you after the game. He what? I go, closed door. He said, how are you interested in the MSU Denver job? He looked at me. I'm like, man, I know about this. I'm old, but I pay attention. And he had got some connections. I go, do you realize the president at MSU Denver is Janine Davidson? He's looking at me. I go, I drove her to high school. So Janine went to high school with me. So then fast forward, he, I reached out to Janine. I go, this guy's a good guy. He's I'm a model. Now that's not why you got the job, but I don't think the relationships are being established with people anymore. I guarantee it did hurt. Yeah. It's difficult. Okay. So like I host a coaching clinic here, every fall situational clinic, and it's probably 50 high school coaches that come. Okay, and they're all from the area and my assistant say, why do you do it? I said I want to grow the game of a basketball coach I said, but more importantly those dudes when something happens I can call them say Hey, what do you know about this person because I've established a relation when I first got here. We had middle school coaches here We didn't have any high school coaches. Now the high school coaches know that we got guys driving over from Atlanta now We don't advertise it. Okay And it's hard nowadays because you used to recruit a kid from his 10th grade year on and you knew his high school coach news. Nowadays you're recruiting them as seniors. Like it's just it's hard and you have to fast forward that relationship That's why you see so many kids transferring because they're the relationships haven't been established. So and a roundabout weird question No, I don't pay attention now My first I probably could tell you where the best ninth grader played middle school in the area, but I don't know who he is You know when I was assistant here, we went to the middle school championship one time I've been to a middle school championship here as well, but not recently but no it used to be I knew but now I probably know the seniors if somebody calls me today and says who the best seniors in august I can tell them exactly who they are I can't tell you who the juniors are right now because of the way things have changed. Yeah, you have to be really cautious if you're going to bring five kids in a class. What's the breakdown today? We just brought in six and it was five freshmen and one transfer. Okay, that's what I was looking for. All right now. Next year we only have one senior starting post double guy. We gotta bring in one of those guys Yeah, we're gonna transfer it or from web. a good friend of mine Steve DeMeo Who's in Northwest Florida had a great line to me one time and years ago. There's international kids. There's prep school There's junior college. There's high school. There's transfers or whatever. You got to get him. You got to get him Okay, and that was before the portal. All right, and he's 100 right So we look a little bit globally because it's hard to find size. so this year A weird math I used to division two that I would argue is division ones do it if you have four seniors I always say Take the number times it by two and minus one. So four times two is eight minus one is seven. You'll bring in seven guys. Nowadays it's true. I think it was true 20 years ago. Yes. I was a D three coach for a long time. I never knew who was going to show up because we didn't have a national letter of intent. So they signed a financial aid, but they could bug out on me on August 1st. So I always wanted, if I was bringing in four or five, we were gonna have seven or eight. Cause I was always worried about injury. I was always worried about this. And it's got nothing in the weirdest things can cause guys to leave. You don't know nowadays. And now with the ability, we've never lost anybody transferring up the division one transfer we've had are so happy with the roles they're having here because they're one of the better players and a starters and we, we've never lost anybody up and I hope we don't, hopefully cause we treat him right and our university does some great things for him, but no, I would always say now, if let's say Colorado basketball, if they have three seniors. They're bringing in probably five guys next year, six. I don't know if I, yeah, the portal I don't know if I told you, Mick Cronin took over the UCLA job. Every player came back. It's so rare. It's going to be there. And the guys signed. They have Musselman taking it over and one player returned at USC. That's the norm nowadays. Kids, if a coach leaves, those kids are taken off. Crazy. My coach got fired after my freshman year of college and I didn't think there were any other options but stick it out and play for the guy they brought in. I didn't know I could leave. my college coach left after my sophomore year and I was starting as a sophomore and in came Kevin Eastman who renowned guy. Yeah, Kevin. Kevin came in and I play for a guy named Eddie Payne, who, unbelievable coach. So in comes Kevin Eastman and he had a different philosophy how the game was played. I never once thought I was leaving and nobody left. Okay. Yeah. And now if a coach thinks about leaving, kids are taking off. It's right. It's madness. Yeah. Somebody asked me the other day, why is this coach even saying they're going to stay? I think they were talking about Dion. Why is he even saying he's going to stay and he loves it there when it's obvious he's going to leave? I go number one, he may actually love it there and he may want to stay. And number two, He just lost those 30 kids. He just got commenced from. Yep. Now it's, if you ask me anything, the biggest thing is I have no problem with kids transfer. Have them sit out a year. Okay. That changes everything. Yeah. Okay. If it used to be like the old days, if you transferred from, wherever or whatever, you had to sit out a year and it doesn't really hurt you to sit out and it helps you academically. So that's the one thing I changed. Just let them, division one sit down, then they'll think twice. I agree. What do you, what have you put much thought into this ruling with junior college kids? That is just going to be a thing where they're going to get their eligibility. Okay, for the Division 2 level, according to my compliance person, this is absurd, this is. If a kid's in that situation in Division 2, he's not getting the year back. But he can transfer to Division 1 and get the year back. I say, okay they're going to change that. There's no question. Division 2 is going to come back and say, you get the year back. There's no question. How can they not do that across the board? I think we got. That nobody knew this was coming until the guy at Vanderbilt did the whole lawsuit. I'm under the impression now, if you go to a junior college as a freshman, that's going to count as eligibility. The biggest one they're talking about now is you have five years to play basketball. Did you play all five years? All five years. All right. So my senior year is going to be my fifth year. Yes. Whether you sit me or play me my freshman year, I could be your number one guy playing 30 minutes a game and I'm going to get five years. Yes. Okay. So talk about that. I don't think you'll pass that. Wow. What it does. It takes away all the waivers and different things. So if you want to switch schools, okay, but you have five years to play. really interesting. I don to pass because you've g with that scholarship wis to fund programs. You kno don't get this value, unl Okay, but basically they no more red shirt. You ha that's interesting thought into that. I kind if we're going to go this junior college kids. I ha you're gonna go play two junior college. Now you play four more years. Wha right? One of the things college programs are all Okay. Yeah. So one of my was a junior college coac Memphis. He made it all w championship. He had like All right. So guys are ta to school there. People d there's more to it. Okay. funded programs that are Division II juco, you only get paid for certain things. Ah. Yeah, this is another thing we're coming up with. If it happens, the NCAA is just running scared. They're you can't take a 2 billion and hitting the lawsuits and recover from that with strength. And something's got to change. Yeah. We're running from fear every time. We want to, I always say that stuff is way above my pay grade. I've been in it long enough to know, like college basketball is the only thing that doesn't play quarters. Only place in the world is college basketball. All right. So then you watch a women's game, you get the time out and goes to half court. Women's college basketball takes longer almost the NBA because they're calling time out. They're getting half court. They can carry their timeouts over. And I know this cause my daughter's a college coach. And should we do that? The reason they did it was to speed the game up because you get five fouls, and you technically have four fouls in the first quarter, four fouls in the second quarter, and not be in the bonus or the two shots. And sped it up, sometimes good intentions. And I can't get them to add a shot clock in Colorado for high school. It's ridiculous. We've got schools that have 50 kids in it that are dictating a shot clock because they don't have the budget for it. We're letting 20 high schools dictate 800 high schools ability to get kids prepared for the next level. I'll tell you a funny story. I recruited many years ago. I went to Australia and I saw the under 17 national a basically their national tournament. Matthew Delladova was playing it. So anyway, I go over Australia. and, watch this, whatever, not at you. The gym is Ice cold freezing. Okay. I'm sitting in the next assistant at Washington state He literally has a hoodie on I got like a knit hat on watching a game. I'm like, man, this is amazing The guys are warming up and almost like robes Nobody's complaining shot clock's going on. I'm like, yeah, this is neat to have a shot clock. I leave there I come back and the peach jam's in Augusta. So I go watch the peach jam. There's no shot clock One of the reasons the shot clocks help international kids. And I figured this out was at 14 years old, they're playing with the shot clock. Those guys are more skilled. They have to be more skilled because they have to pass and dribble and do things. Yeah. You got to move. So I go watch Australia and Matthew Della Dove is an unbelievable NBA career. I come back and watch the best players in America stand there and pound the basketball, and yeah, like this is worse than watching this basketball. So sometimes you like you said with the shot clock overseas, they play the shot clock from 12 or 13 years old. We had two international guys this year, our first college game, one on one, like what's one on one? They've never played one on one because everything's a two shot foul. You have stuff like that. You can't throw the ball in the backcourt, so the game is a world game. But something that they do, it's unbelievable. We have the best players in the world at work. We don't put a shot clock in let's get the ball moving, but put it in a younger age, put it in a JV and freshman. That's right. It's going to hurt the game. Those games are bad enough to begin with. We need those kids playing with more pace. We need them to learn how to play in that pace. So I, I'm 100 percent with you go back and watch the North Carolina Georgetown National Championship in 1982 and put a 14 year old basketball player, make them watch it. And they're going to be like, this is awful. No pressure defense. We're sitting back. Yeah, no three point line, right? Yeah. You got five of the best players in the world. Yes. It's crazy. It's standing around passing the ball, waiting for somebody to hit a jumper or throw the ball in the post. Yep. The game has changed. No question about it. Coach, I could talk to you all day. I'm so thankful we got to talk. And obviously I know now why you've had such a great career. I got a couple of questions that I ask. Everybody, because I have a lot of families that listen to this, a lot of high school coaches that listen to this. What is one piece of advice you'd give to that 16 year old kid and their parents about recruiting if they want to play at your level? what is the thing that they need to understand if they want to play college basketball? You have to be good. I'm sure these numbers don't change. 97 percent of the kids that play high school basketball don't play basketball division one, two or three level. That's right. So you're in that 3%. you're an elite group of high school kids. Some kids can just have a great high school career and be fine with it. So first thing is you have to be good. You have to be physically good. I don't know about strength training and all that stuff, but because of transfers and all that people are passing on kids because they're not physically developed. the last thing is don't ever look at a school. When I was coming out of high school. If I don't play in the beach ball classic and my guy named Clint Bryant, assistant coach of Clemson, doesn't tell any pain about me. I don't get recruited. I literally do not get recruited. All right. And I had a pretty good high school career. And I remember late in the process, some other people started recruiting me. I didn't know what Belmont Abbey was. I had no idea. Okay, when I went to visit my high school coach said, do you like the coach and you like the guys you're playing with? I'm like they seem like pretty good guys. He goes everybody's got libraries Everybody's got classroom building. Everybody's got dormitories. All right, so in a weird way, it's very simplistic If you want to play college basketball It may not be at your dream school when I bring kids in that first question. I always ask him is You know, first thing is tell me your story. I go, Hey, if you could, if any, if you could be sitting in front of any coach in the country, who would you want to be sitting in front of? And they don't even know what to say. I go, okay, you're from North Carolina. And he goes I'd love to, I'd love to play at North Carolina. Okay. Let's make the best of this opportunity. Parents. Don't realize how good basketball is and it's hard. Hey, and you're probably got to pay some to go to college Okay, I mean we got a really good program here. We got starters paying. All right, so therefore you're gonna have to pay some It's just really hard. I see it on their faces when they visit we don't bring kids in and work them out And at the end of the workout, I'll sit them down and go, here's the offer we're making, or we're not able to offer you a scholarship. And my assistant said to me one time, It's amazing how the parents don't get mad at you. I go, Hey, I'm just being honest. They're paying all this money to go play in AAU tournaments and go travel and all this stuff. They're in front of a college coach, a Vision 2 coach, and I go, Hey, listen, we can't offer you a scholarship because you don't shoot it well enough. Or you're not athletic enough. Now, we're not bringing in a thousand guys. We're looking at guys like let's bring him in these guys. See how they work out with our guys We've been wrong plenty of times but listen i'm honest and I say if Anybody is giving you a scholarship offer. You need to take it I love that I'm looking at your roster coach and you got a guy that's five eight. You got another guy that's five 11. Now you got great size across the board, but you're recruiting guys that you love that you believe it and you're not letting rules get in the way of you the program. You want sickle cell. Sickles, I'm doing my research as soon as I'm going to go next week, probably two weeks to Joe drive and go meet two, three kids and say, you have to get the sickle cell test before your season's done. I'm going to talk to every one of my recruits about it tomorrow. Yeah. So that's great. piece of advice that maybe you've given a lot over the years that you feel is significant. That you'd like to share with my audience with who coaches or players, you name it with coaches. Go see as many practices as you humanly possibly could see. I am a firm believer and I am a basketball junkie. You can learn more from watching a practice at any school junior college for your any I division one division two and invite yourself to them. Okay, in my tenure. I've only been denied twice. so When we had a hurricane hit my assistant went back up to North up the Connecticut where he's from because we were shut down for a week He went he was able to go see Fairfield and Holy Cross practice. I love passing that Trish not because you can learn a lot by Watching other people teach the game and when I recruit kids, I often want to go watch practice Because I want I might pick something up. I'm not i'll pick up something I go my brother's a great high school coach when i'm up there. I always go watch him practice, you know I might say why are you doing that? And he'll tell me why okay, that sounds good to me. Go watch as many college or any practice you can possibly see to read as much as you can not to plug you But podcasts are a great avenue nowadays, man Like I had no idea until probably four or five years ago, maybe because of covid you can get podcasts Anywhere. Yeah. Okay. Sometimes it's on the thing and you listen to it. So yes, go see maybe read and listen to podcasts. and that's what I felt like there was a whole, there were so many great coaches in our country at every level. And people don't know about them. And, you talk to kids and they all want to go to UCLA or Duke or Louisville, I was like, there's so many great coaches. There's so many great schools out there. So it's become my mission to share you with the world. So they, every time I get off the phone, I'm never like, gosh, that was a waste of time. I was like, man, I learned a ton and I'm becoming a better coach. By having these conversations. So yeah, it's amazing. I got asked to do slapping glass. I'm like, wow How do they know about me? That's awesome And the guy reached out and I got their backgrounds He was in germany and the number of people who listened to her like, hey, it was great I'm, like i'm not why they called me but somebody suggested me because they got whatever we talked about for on offense, I guess so no, like I said, it's kevin eastman. Like I says my College coach used to do these clinics and I would go every year and I said you I'm still on scholarship, man I ain't paying the fee. So he said something I always remember do not ever take away a professional opportunity and he goes with his history about how he worked out Doc Rivers son, which led him to the NBA. It's the same thing. You reach out about a podcast. Sure. I'll be able to do it. let's coordinate a time. I don't ever look at it and go that's a waste of time. They never know who you meet, and I never know who you can touch and more importantly for me Help me get another next good player. Like I said never denied that opportunity for anything professionally, you know In the spring I went to an event for a guy who was doing recruiting thing I remember turning my wife. I'm like, man. I don't know if I want to go. It was sunny It was beautiful weather in georgia. I said man. I told him I was going to coach You always say don't buy commercial opportunity. I'm like I gotta drive two hours. That's right I've developed a great relationship with this guy. And did I want to do it? No. Okay. But tell you what, he's been really helpful for me. And I think too many people, I'm not going to be the old guy. Too many young coaches don't do enough of that. Go reach out, man. Figure this thing out. It's pride. I think, gym and realize all the things that maybe you're not doing or all the things that you're doing really well, just go get that confirmation of growth or that you are doing the right things. Yeah. And it's hard, like it's hard to get out of your comfort zone, especially as a younger coach. And, it's hard. But it's the, like I said, I have, there is nothing better. Sometimes my recruiting is based on where I go watch a practice, okay? I can get into Georgia Tech at 9 o'clock on Friday. Let me go see this kid at 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock. Like I said, I've been very fortunate to, that's been the learning tool. the very first one I saw was at UT Chattanooga for a guy named Mack McCarthy. And, he invited me up there because he was getting rid of some guys. Yeah, I did not know Mac did not know him one bit But I knew the assistant coach and I get up there and I'm sitting at the roundhouse and he introduced himself and he starts talking He goes anybody the yellow you can have okay, he put them all on one team. So that was 30 years ago I still have a relationship back to today. Man, unbelievable when I played at Belmont Abbey, this is how old I am, Jim Laranega was the head coach of Bowling Green, and they practice in our gym, okay? One of my best friends is the equipment manager for the New Orleans Pelicans. He was with the New Orleans, the Charlotte Hornets, before they moved. I go watch NBA practices before everybody do it, let me in I would just sit in Absolutely sign me up for that. Yes. Yeah, I remember being a 26 year old head college coach for the first time and going to the all the nabc clinics and lute olson and eddie sutton the time that they would give me I grab them after they'd speak or something as they're walking off. I go, coach, teach me what you're talking about. Guarding shack in the post. How are you? I'm seeing you put your shoulder on his. upside, aren't you giving away, the baseline and he goes, turn around, let me show you. He took 20 minutes to show me how to guard the post. It was the greatest thing, so I love that. if I'm a good coach at all, it's because of all those guys they shared. I'll tell you a funny story. We have a kid playing for me. It was high school coaches, Charlie Ward. Great. I go to recruit him great kid after the game we go down there I meet him after the game and he said coach. Let me introduce you to my wife I'm like I should be here to make you and he's the most humble guy That's you and I'm like this guy is a Heisman Trophy winner play for the Knicks. He is the most Down to earth human being. I would never have known that if I hadn't recruited TJ or met him. No, and you sometimes you'll meet guys have not accomplished. You're like dude, you haven't really done anything. You're blowing me off. I laugh at those guys nowadays. But no, I try to reach out like when people, area coaches, middle school, come any practice you want, I don't care. Just don't build things, don't, there's certain things that we don't want done. But no, it's like I said, it's a great resource to reach out to people do things. Coach, thank you again. You were great. If you're in the Georgia area, if anybody wants to understand what division two basketball looks like, Go to an Augusta game, go watch coach work, go watch his kids play and how hard they play, you're going to get better. Thanks for the time today, coach. And that's a wrap on this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast. A huge thank you to Coach Dip Mitras from Augusta University for sharing his insights and experiences with us today. His leadership and dedication to the game are truly inspiring. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to share the podcast with those who you think it may help and subscribe and follow to the podcast so you never miss an episode. Also, be sure to visit my website, CoachMattRogers. com, where you can learn more about having me speak at your school organization, schedule a college recruiting strategy session with me, you can listen to past episodes and read my latest blog post, and You can also check out my book, Significant Recruiting, The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes. Thank you for tuning in and as always, keep striving for significance in everything you do. Until next time, don't wait, go make your dreams come true. See you soon.