Episode #60: Kristen Dowling

🔥 One Day to Prepare, One Season to Dominate! 🔥

In this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, host Matt Rogers sits down with Kristen Dowling, head women’s basketball coach at Whittier College, to talk about one of the most unbelievable coaching turnarounds in recent memory.

Hired just one day before the season started, Coach Dowling took a 14-10 team and transformed them into a 21-5 powerhouse—without time to recruit, build a culture, or even get to know her players. How did she do it? Tune in as she shares:

🏀 Her leadership philosophy and how she earns player buy-in instantly
🏀 Lessons from coaching at the D1 & D3 levels (Pepperdine, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, and more)
🏀 What recruits & families should know about the college basketball process
🏀 How to create a championship mindset—fast

Whether you’re a coach, athlete, or parent navigating the recruitment process, this episode is packed with actionable insights you don’t want to miss!

🎧 Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite platform!
📲 Learn more, read Matt’s blog, schedule a recruiting session, or book him to speak at coachmattrogers.com.

Transcript

0:12

Welcome back to the Significant Coaching Podcast, where we dive deep into the world of college athletics, leadership, and the recruiting process, helping student athletes and families take ownership of their journey. I'm your host, Coach Matt Rogers, and you can learn more about me at CoachMattRogers. com. Be sure to subscribe and listen to the Significant Coaching Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major streaming platforms, so you never miss an episode. Today, I am so excited to welcome an old friend, a guest who has had an impressive coaching career at both the Division I and Division III levels. Kristen Dowling, the head women's basketball coach at Whittier College, brings a wealth of knowledge and experience, having previously led Pepperdine University Division I and Claremont Mudd Scripps College Division III to great success. Coach Dowling's journey is nothing short of remarkable. Over a 10 year head coaching career, she has amassed 176 wins, including a dominant run at Claremont Mud Scripps, where her teams won six straight Skyhawk regular season championships and four consecutive Skyhawk tournament titles. I coached in that league. possible that is what she's already accomplished. She has also served as an assistant at Pepperdine and CSU Bakersfield, contributing to multiple postseason appearances. But what makes her story at Whittier College truly incredible is how she was hired just one day before the season started this past October. With no time to recruit, build a culture, or even get to know her players, she took a team that finished 14 10 last season and led them to a 21 5 record this year. And absolutely unheard of turnaround under those circumstances. Her passion for developing student athletes, both on and off the court, is clearly evident. A Phi Beta Kappa graduate of the University of Redlands, she has also been involved with USA Basketball and is an alumna of the prestigious NCAA Women's Coaches Academy. In today's conversation, we'll discuss Coach Dowling's coaching philosophy, her approach to leadership and player development, and her insights into the recruiting process for high school athletes looking to play at the college level. And of course, we'll break down how she pulled off one of the most impressive coaching feats we've seen, winning big with a team she just met hours before the season tipped off. So let's jump right in. Here's my conversation with coach Kristen Dowling. all right. So coach Kristen, you have one of the journeys. that I don't know if there's 10 of you in the country that have started D3, jumped to D1, come back to D3, and you've been a rock star wherever you've gone. how did you even make that happen? Did you have a magic wand? No, I think, to be honest, I think a lot of it is, very blessed, my steps were ordained, but I think also, in terms of hard work we had great I worked really hard to have really good players and make them better, and, let's be honest, it's, I was watching a Rick Pitino, the coach at St. John's thing last night, and he says, Yes. I've had phenomenal players. So recruiting is the most important thing to me. because if you have great players, then you're probably going to win a lot of games. you've got some great ones. I want to get into this season. Cause what you've done this season is absolutely amazing. Somebody is going to write a script for, and it's going to be a movie at some point. tell me about. That journey from saying, okay, I've got a top 10 national D three team. I'm going to jump to D one. It's wonderful opportunity. What went through your head to make that jump? What were your fears? Cause I think that's the thing that would is I know I can coach, but there's 95 percent of what you jumped into was pretty much brand new in terms of scholarship NIL and NLI and boosters. Were those your fears or did you have any fears? No, I think, no, I definitely had fears, but, I think the biggest thing that led me to jumping to Division 1 was just, having had a lot of success at Claremont, and wondering if I could do it at the highest level. And so that was my biggest I'm a Southern California native and I've been very picky with the jobs I take and to be honest, I was only gonna leave for Pepperdine and I knew that I didn't tell anybody but I knew that So I had been offered other jobs higher level jobs when I was at Claremont, but I turned them down and that was the only job I was gonna leave for and then in terms of my fears like It really happened very quickly and unexpectedly. So once it happened, it was like, cause I got back from Spain. It was like June 25th. And then my first day was like July 3rd. So it happened all within a week. So I just, I didn't really have time to think about it. The, yeah, the boosters and all that stuff is, that was definitely gonna, and like you said, the scholarships, like I hadn't dealt with that and all that, Just in terms of the kids were already there for summer school, July recruiting wasn't full swing. it wasn't like I got hired in March or April. I got hired in July. So it's a not great timing, of course I had fears, but I'll be honest, I don't know that I really had time to process it. It was just okay here's the job. Here's your dream job. Do you want it? Okay, you're in. Let's go. Everybody's here. Everybody's waiting on you. Wow. What a whirlwind. Is there a bit of schizophrenia that sets in with recruiting at the D3 level and then recruiting at the D1 level and then recruiting at the D3 level again? It's as a D3 coach, you're not going to the Lamborghini and the Ferrari store, right? I want a nice Honda, a nice Toyota. What was that like that transition to just to changing your brain on what, how you were evaluating? Yeah, no, I think that's great. great question. I was excited because I felt When you, someone tells you, you've got full scholarships, you're like, Oh my gosh, what can I do now? at the same time though, I realized, And a lot of people don't realize this, but at Division 1, even at D3 sometimes, but especially at Division 1, especially with Summer Access, it's a job, right? And you have to find kids who literally love the game, because it's They're not gonna like it if they're gonna, have to be playing from September to, yeah, okay, maybe you take a couple weeks off after the season ends in March, but then you get right back into it, and then you got summer access, right? I think, I was super excited because I had a scholarship, but then quickly realized, okay, now I'm playing with the big boys, right? And, what does that look like, right? And That's a challenge. And then also again, being late, okay we need to sign our first class in two months. In division one, that's really hard to do at that time, right? because those relationships are normally built over years, not two months. It was harder than I thought for sure. Help me out here. Cause I really want to understand you as an evaluator and the adjustment you made over those years, because you know what talent looks like, what. You already knew what a kid could do handling the ball, shooting the ball, playing defense character. But what changed in terms of speed athleticism, did you have assistants that had recruited at that level to guide you, or were you just, were you really listening to your gut? Yeah, no. I did have, assistants, like you said, who had recruited that level. I had also spent 10 years at division one as an assistant. That's right. Okay. So yeah, but I also hired someone who had, done that, as well. So that was helpful. But in terms of, I, you've done it, right? So it's just, bigger app, like bigger kids and better athletes, right? it's, obviously there's, they're better players, but also that kind of excites you, right? To be able to go after better players. Is it, did you, are you the type of coach that's looking for specific things? Are you, do you like having those shooters? Do you like having that point guard, though that those two point guards, do you like having that big post that can do multiple things with their back to the basket? Are there things that you just love having in your system? Yes. Yes. Like most coaches, right? Most coaches have what they're in their system. But yes, there definitely is like for me I like having two point guards on the court. Like you said, I would rather have an undersized big who is very mobile and is a really good player than an undersized big. a big, who's just big. Yeah. And then the other thing is like in terms of, of course you need kids that can put the ball in the basket and all that stuff. And every year is different, right. Based off of your needs. But the, the other thing is for me, they have to have a high motor, they have, forget all of what I just said. If they don't have a high motor, they don't play hard. They're not like a great teammate. Like they don't bring positive. They're energy givers and not energy takers. Then I don't want them on my list. So it's almost anybody that doesn't recruit that way. It's just asking for trouble. Don't you think they're asking for pain down the road? Yeah, absolutely. I've made that mistake. Yeah, I have to. When I was at Maryville, we transitioned to Division two. So we were in the Great Lakes Valley. And at that time, Great Lakes Valley was the conference for basketball. They were winning. The men and the women were winning the national championship every other year. Somebody was winning it. And I remember my first year in the GLVC, Northern Kentucky was still division two at the time they came in the door and they had a six 11 center who was the freshman of the year at Iowa the year before he, Dropped out he got knocked out for academics, so he went to division two. The next game we played Southern Indiana, which was D two, which is now D one. It was D two at the time, and they had the big 10 freshman of the year, a six four shooting guard on their roster who got in trouble. And I had a D three roster with one scholarship. I brought in six kids over six, eight with that one scholarship And we got him in the door and we said, as we get more scholarship, we're going to pay for a little bit more. So for me, I made the mistake of going, all right, I'm going to bring in size because we need size. I learned really quickly that it wasn't about the size. It was all about toughness. It was all about strength. It was all about consistency, being able to handle pressure. Did you go through some of that or did you, were you already ready for that because of your years of experience in D1, did you already correct some of that in your brain and how you evaluate it? That's funny. Cause I think, I would like to say that I was always already ready, but I know I wasn't because I could have done better, right? Like we always have misses. and then the W. C. On the women's basketball side is the number one mid major conference in the country. at the time, B. Y. U. Hadn't joined the big 12 yet, so they were in the W. C. we were going against, Gonzaga, B. Y. U. The thing across the board in the WCC, they're bigger. They're bigger from the point guard position, they're bigger to the five position, right? but you do have to have size in that league, I hit some out of the park and I also made some mistakes, Yeah, it's life. As much as you put time into a kid and you ask all the right questions and you watch them play live and you get to know their parents, you get to know them and their teachers and you get all the advice. You still don't know how they're going to react that first time from home. That's exactly it. And also like first time from home. Right first time they're on their own right first time playing where they're not the best player in the gym, maybe. First time maybe being injured. first time, dealing with adversity or not playing as much as they want to play. There's just all sorts of first times in that summed up by that one thing you said. Yeah. What do you tell the kid that might have the ability to play division one but isn't a stud at that level isn't going to be. She's 16 years old. She's 17 years old. She's got some D one offers, but she's got the two really great D threes. What advice do you give them in terms, not so much making the decision, but what questions to ask themselves before they make that decision? That's a great question. And I think a lot of people miss that. I think, the first question I think I would ask them is what do they want? And by that I don't mean Level, academically, experience wise, playing time wise, location wise, because I think a lot of people get, and you know this, a lot of people get caught up in the D1 is better than D2 or better than D3, and the truth is, there is some, but that's not always the truth for example, NYU women's basketball won the national championship last year, right? They would be low major division one, or I'm not even look, yeah, just low level. Yes. One programs and that's a phenomenal school. So if you want to get a great education, And so and sadly, I know someone who passed up almost a full ride to NYU because of financial aid. because they want to go to a junior college, like that just makes no sense to me. Because they wanted to be a D one, like that makes no sense for me. That's right. it's not understanding your priorities. It's not understanding the things that make you happy. Yeah. And it makes me feel so good coach when I have great coaches on, because I wrote this book. With my years of experience, and I asked a lot of coaches to help me, but it makes me feel so good when you, who's been one of the best coaches in the country the last 20 years is giving the same advice that I put in the book because I don't want kids to fail. I'm so tired of, I'm the old guy in the law and telling it, y'all and everybody to slow down. But for me, it just comes down to, I don't want kids in the portal. I want them to understand that their loyalty comes back to them. There's karma in loyalty, and if you take the time to really find that coach that loves you, that believes in you, and there's that school that can help you. That is so much more important than any division level or whatever even the name is on the jersey, right? Oh, thousand percent. I wish more people would understand that because most people don't understand that to me is the most important thing. You look at my, my, my niece coaches division three volleyball up in Wisconsin. So she went to the sweet 16 this year. So we got to see a lot of really good volleyball this year. Oh yeah. Especially, yeah. They have some division three or something. Volleyball. So you talk about NYU and basketball. We got to see Giata, we got to see Wisconsin Whitewater, Oshkosh hot dogs, and you just, you're looking at these teams and going, how are they D three when their frontline is 6 4, 6 2, 6 2, and they got hitters that can get their shoulders above the rim. I'm watching low level D one. I'm watching D two and I'm going, I don't know if these teams can compete with that. That's what I'm saying. Like people think, and there is a little bit of truth in the sense that there are some very bad, division three programs and women's volleyball and one, but there's also some really stinking good ones. Yeah. it's just amazing to me. I love it. I wish there was a series and maybe this is something I've gotta find a way to create. I just wish all these club basketball programs and volleyball programs and baseball and softball, I wish the parents had to sit down and listen to a new coach like you every week and just say, stop worrying about the division level. Stop worrying about the money right now. If your kid has got great grades. And they're high character, a great teammate, and they're working their tail off to get better every day. they're going to be loved. There's going to be coaches out there, right. So stop worrying about all the things that right now you can't control and really focus on your kid being their authentic self and figuring out what makes them happy. Because I'm talking to kids every day about recruiting and I'm 30 minutes in the conversation. I'm going, do you like basketball? That's a great question. I'm like, you want to get recruited and I'm not sure you like the game, right? That's fact. And you have coached long enough and I've also coached long enough to know that every year I have at least one player who is playing for their parents. Yes. And they literally hate it and they'll tell me they hate it, but they won't quit because of their, or they won't stop doing it because they feel pressure from their parents. I don't know, but either way that's even at the division one level. That's every year for 18 years. I've seen it at least once. Absolutely. And there's so many of these kids that when you really dig in, they go, my parents told me I had to get a scholarship. They weren't going to pay for college. So I had to get it. And this was the easiest way for me to get it. Everybody's always told me I'm a good ballplayer, so this is how I could give my parents that gift. That's a tragedy to me. Oh, So sad. And I'm laughing because it hurts. I just want to tell him, let's stand up for yourself because you don't even really know if you like the game. What if you do love the game? What if you found out that you love it, but you've been doing it for the wrong reasons? before you go commit to coach, Kristen, let's figure that out. Let's figure out who you are. I wish everybody would wait. I want every kid to hear that. There's a lot of coaches that. unfortunately they don't ask the right questions or they don't care about those things. And so if they commit to a program or a coach or whatever college and that's not important, like that might get missed. Like you and I would have those conversations, but that doesn't mean everybody else would. Yeah, that's right. All right. let's talk about the second half of your schizophrenia. How do you go from full rides, the budget you had, the staff you had now you're back at division three, Whittier, great school, great league. How have you handled that transition backwards? Yeah, this is a great question. I really, I think it's like in, you gotta, what's important to you, right? I'll be honest, there are a lot of things we are no fluff. that's not important, it is important to me that our kids have a great experience, that I do what I can to take care of them, academically and athletically, but in terms of, fluff, things like, we don't have five pairs of shoes. right? We don't need that. And so it's just I think you have to really simplify, and I'm fortunate to work for an AD that was a men's basketball coach for 25 years. So it's like, what's important. and also then I have to, I have to decide what's important. I'm going to focus on those things. So things, to be honest, that used to matter to me, don't really matter anymore. And I just, what's important, to me, going to class is important, Trying hard is important. Being on time is important, Yeah, and I need to apologize. You're not going backwards by going to Whittier. It's just understanding your environment and the good that you can do there, right? And that's it. And I appreciate you saying that because I don't even, I think a lot of people and myself included have thought about it the way that you said it. And I think, Thinking of it that way, it's just it is really helpful. So I appreciate it. And I was a young coach, you and I got jobs really young and we were in this field right out of college. So I add that impression that I wanted to move up. I wanted to go higher and I wish I could go back and slap that young guy and go stop it. You get to coach for a living. You get to make a difference in kids lives. Yeah, that's all you need to worry about and they're paying you to do it I mean, no, it's you're absolutely right like we lost a game on Saturday and I was super bummed and then I Remembered like I had to go into the locker room and it was senior night So we always do a thing with our senior families afterwards and I was like, you know what? Like I know this all sucks and we're not happy. We didn't want to lose but you know what it's done We can't change it. And at the end of the day, it's just a game and Like the people that we're going to thank and like they gave birth to you, right? Like they raised you like, so like yourself a little bit and just, and it is just a game. And of course we want to win and all that and I'm not negating how important it is, but what I am saying is like perspective is important, right? Yeah. And Rich Murphy might have done you a favor because. Maybe this was a wake up call. Oh no, he did me not might have, he did me a ginormous favor. I owe so much to him. I am so thankful to him. last year was the best year of my life. And I attribute a huge part of it to him, And, bringing the joy back, I would say, and allowing me to get my confidence back and self belief, because I was really torn down, and he could see that, and, I think I knew it even more than him. But, I remember actually even before, and I don't think he remembers this, but even before, when I was at Pepperdine, it was like the last spring going into the final year of my contract, I saw him recruiting, and, he told me this after the fact, like, when I worked for him, but he was like, I just, I saw you and you looked miserable. he was like, I just wanted to encourage you, but no, he didn't do me a favor. He was like a lifesaver, to be honest. and I appreciate that, giving you a loss going into the conference tournament for national tournament too, I think was a gift too. Do you see it that way? Yeah, I feel like, all you can do is learn from it, right? You guys have been on such a run. Yeah, and yesterday, we got to watch film for an hour and a half, right? And break it, and I know the men's basketball coach was like, you're gonna do film for an hour and a half. I was like, I'm mad. Every missed box out we're showing. That's right. You got it. Yeah. Every time we didn't see man and ball. Every time we missed, every time we didn't fight over a screen. But no, I agree with you. I think it really can be a gift, and it's all about, and this it's all about perspective and the way you see it and the way you use. Cause the thing is, it's just a basketball game, but what can we learn from it and how can we move forward? When you send me a picture of you holding up the national championship trophy in three weeks, I want, I just want that text. I want to remind her that we had this conversation. I appreciate that. I don't think that's not my focus, so I don't think we're there. Oh, you've got a great team. no, I appreciate that. But I still do think, it's positive, right? You can live with the positive, It's getting the kids to understand that's the hard part. getting them to realize, hey, This is the bump in the road. This is why we're here. we're not here to find the puppy dog tails and the butterflies we know life's gonna be hard. and being able to be resilient and overcome that is why we're here. That's exactly right. I want to just, we talked about this before we recorded, and I just want you to be able to elaborate on it.'cause it's such a great story. You didn't take this job until October. Yeah, no, my first day at Whittier wasn't until October 21st, so I had done the eight preseason practices with Redlands. I was expecting to be there this year, so you were still at Redlands as an assistant, did all the work to prep that team, and then you take a job in October, three days before the season starts, right? Yeah, I resigned October 14th. The d3 rule is October 15th. So one day Yeah, you didn't know any of the girls you really you'd scouted so you had an idea of what they had But you didn't know their character. You didn't know what was coming back. You didn't know what was recruited and you're supposed to be four and 20 when you take that job coaching with 20 and four Fantastic coach you're one of the best there is But it's not even supposed to happen. It's not so and I obviously like we talked about in the beginning the podcast. It's the players right like We have really good players. We don't have a lot of players, but you don't need a lot of players, right? We have, and we have two, especially that are phenomenal, higher level than D3 for sure. One is the best. and I don't even like calling her D3 athlete because she's not a D3 athlete. She's just an athlete. She's a baller. But to have two of those is that's just such, it's fortune. And then everybody else. And like you said, I didn't know what was coming in or what the freshmen could do. And then one of our players, she's actually our third leading score. She, didn't play last year. She was on the team, but she had got injured, so she didn't play. So I didn't know about her, I knew about her, but I didn't know what, so anyways, I, a hundred percent of it goes to them and just. I'm very fortunate to be a part, to walk into that. Cause we know that doesn't happen. So it's so impressive. I'm so happy for you and the girls and what you're doing this year and whatever, however, the season finishes, what a story and what a great compliment to you as a leader and them as learners and players and teammates to come together after a coaching change that late, it's really impressive coach. So cool. we talked about it the other day. we actually talked about it on Saturday after our loss I just quickly said in the locker room, in our first team meeting on October 21st, if I had told you that we would have been 20 and four, I wouldn't have thought it. The season's not done. So how much of what you learned in your four years at the division one level being a head coach, how much credit can you give that to what you were able to pull off this year? Oh, a lot. I will tell you that my four years at Pepperdine, in terms of my growth as a coach, like the WCC is full from top to bottom of phenomenal coaches, right? There is no, game that's a guaranteed win, so I, was challenged by the other coaches that we were playing, I was also challenged by my own staff, and I had some amazing assistants, and not challenged in a bad way, but challenged in the sense of growing and learning, right? How to develop players, and then now stepping to D3, it's okay, so we don't have near as much time, what's important, and game planning, and adjustments, and there was just, I learned so much, yeah, that's so great. it's like I told you about this podcast. I am such a better coach being able to talk to you and pick your brain and hearing what you're thinking and hearing your philosophies. I want to take another year. And just do the podcast in everybody's gym. And I want to come to a practice, and really just be able to then talk about your practice afterwards. So that's my goal at some point, because there's so much to share with the youth coaches and the high school coaches and the club coaches that if they'll just take the time to listen and learn a little bit every week, it's amazing how much difference they can make on their kids experience. You and I talked about this before the show, but just like for me personally, the older I've got, the more I've quickly recognized that I really don't know anything, and I was younger, I thought I knew everything. So and I listened to podcasts every day, and I often learn stuff, we got to keep learning and growing. And if you're not learning and growing, then you should probably, I don't know what you should be doing, but it shouldn't be coaching. I know that. Exactly. and that's why I'm not coaching. I had to learn that lesson the hard way. So I gotta watch and learn from you and all the great things you're doing. I'm learning from you. It's like we learn from, this is the way I, we should be learning from everything around us, good and bad, you know? I've got, I even feel like I learned from my players right now, Absolutely. Yeah. and that's amazing what our players teach us, the great players that I've had have taught me so much about. Just when to shut up and when to get outta their way, and those are such hard lessons to learn for a coach. how many of my guys and gals that were the 12th or 13th person on the bench that have come up that have become great high school and college coaches. they weren't great players, but man, they were so smart and they learned and they observed. So those things are so cool. When you're a part of it. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah, and I, I did a little bit, because I myself was, I played at the University of Redlands, and I was like the 12th, 13th, really bad. I joke that I would never recruit myself. I was great in terms of teammate and work ethic, but not in terms of basketball, but, There's a, and so because of that, I've done some like research. There's a, you probably know there's a lot of successful, Division III, whether they're head coaches in the NBA, GMs, high level, one players. Popovich coached in your league, right? Popovich, yeah. Pop, there's Popovich, there's Shaka Smart, there's the GM of the Brad Stevens. You just go down the line. There's so many. All right, coach. I could talk to you all day. I can't believe we're already through an hour here. I want to get a couple really good pieces of advice for you, and you've already given us so many golden nuggets. What's one piece of recruiting advice you'd give parents right now that want to play for you at a Whittier, go to a Pepperdine, or play at a Redlands, and their daughter really wants to play college basketball? What's the advice you'd give them to get started with their recruiting and really do it the right way? That's a great question. I know you told me one, but I'm going to give you two. the first thing is the thing that you and I talked about before this jumped on, which is really talking to your daughter or son or whatever, and really. What do they want, in terms of level, academics type of coach, type of program, that type of thing, that's the first thing, is really figuring out what you guys as a family want and need, in terms of academics, money, all that stuff, location, and then the second piece would be, And you know this, but just how important it is to, reach out send emails, follow up, because coaches get so many emails, so just don't be offended if you don't get a response the first time, send another one, to any programs that you're interested in, and then, also I see this a lot, and I'm sure you've seen it don't shut opportunities down. Like we're all friends. All the coaches are friends. We all know each other. I can't tell you how many players I've gotten. I'm sure you're the same because people told me about them that are coaches that they aren't good fits for their school, but they think they'd be a great fit for my school. And I've done the same for others. So don't shut doors until a hundred percent where you're going, just be polite and respond. And even if you think it's terrible fit for you, like, You have 15, 18 girls that thought they were gonna be playing for somebody else this season, right? A lot can change, and I don't think anybody would complain on your roster about where they're at right now. I would hope not, but yeah. What have you learned? and this is really where that significance comes into play. Is there a significant piece of advice? That you've been given over the years or something that you find yourself sharing with kids, with families. When you're speaking any event, is there a piece of advice that you find has been really impactful for you? That doesn't have to be basketball. It doesn't have to be recruiting. Just be a life lesson. A life advice. I think, just the simple thing that I would say is be present and enjoy, because I think we always get so caught up in, what's next. And I think the world is driven towards that, you gotta go to college, right? Then what's after that? You gotta do this, or you gotta get married, or you gotta do this, right? and those things, yeah, and you should plan for them, but also if you're a high school student athlete, enjoy the heck out of it, right? You're not paying any bills, you don't have any kids, and then even like right now I'm at D3, enjoy it, I'm enjoying the heck out of it, at CMS, my eye was honestly on Division 1, on Pepperdine, and maybe in that I got too caught up and, didn't maybe enjoy the incredible things I had there, so I just think be present and enjoy it wherever you're at. it's I wish somebody would have hit me over a hammer with that 20 years ago because that was my biggest thing. I remember winning the state championship as a high school coach in 2000 and walking off the floor and feeling numb. I was happy for the boys. I was happy we won, but there were so many things going around and we were dealing with that. I don't know if I really enjoyed it. I don't know if I enjoyed my first trip to the national tournament because I was so focused on, we were going to win it all. We got to win that next game. I got to get prepared, and I didn't, I wasn't present. I wasn't enjoying it. That's frustrating. It is. And I can tell you, I definitely did that same exact thing at Claremont, just be present and enjoy, right? So this amazing year that we've had, I'm going to enjoy it, I'm not really worried. Yeah. We want to win and we want to do the next game, but also I'm going to stink and enjoy the fact that Whittier has never been there and we're doing it. We're going to have fun with it. Like we had a pizza party yesterday. Most coaches would be practicing. I'm not practicing. We're having a pizza party and we're watching film. That's what we're doing. It's a great, it's a great message to university presidents to have a coach that's been through it, has had to fight through obstacles, has had to deal with adversity. And being able to step away from the game and then come back, it's refreshing on what can happen when we give ourselves a break. Oh my gosh. What a blessing and grace, right? That's so important. It is. it's a blessing. So there's a lot to learn from it. I think I've learned a lot, at least from my, taking a step away, which is good. Coach, I'm so thankful to call you a friend if you're okay, if I say that. Yes, definitely. But you're such an inspiration for me and a motivator for me to see all that you've done and to be able to talk to you about your story and share that with the community that doesn't always get that message from, outside of what they see on ESPN. How many great coaches out there and what you're doing is so significant. Forget your record and forget the wins and losses. What you do to make great young girls into great young women and to give them the confidence into their future. God bless you. I'm so thankful that you're out there doing it. I, that's very kind of you to say. I appreciate it. And, I can tell you I've learned from my own experience coaches can have either a positive effect or negative effect. Yes. On people. And I know in the, in there, I've had times where I've had a negative effect, but I like the most important thing, I want to have a positive effect. And so I just appreciate the kind of words and we're always learning and growing just like we hope want from our players. Yeah. Thanks for doing this with me today. It's been a joy. Thank you, coach. I appreciate you. Good luck on the rest of the way. We'll be cheering for you. All right. Thank you. Have a good day. Well, that's a wrap for another episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast. A huge thank you to Coach Kristen Dowling for joining us today and sharing her insights on coaching, leadership, and her incredible turnaround at Whittier College. Her story is a testament to what great coaching, adaptability, and belief in players can accomplish, even with no time to prepare. If you enjoyed this conversation, Be sure to check out our past episodes wherever you listen to podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major streaming platforms. You can also visit CoachMattRogers. com to read my blog, schedule a recruiting session for your family, or even book me to speak at your school organization. And make sure to check out my book, Significant Recruiting, the playbook for prospective college athletes. Thanks again for tuning in and as always, keep taking ownership of your journey. I'll see you next time on The Significant Coaching Podcast.