Episode #64: Carol Jue

🎙️ Full-Court Pressure: The Tenacity Behind Carol Jue’s Championship Coaching 

In this week’s episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, we sit down with Coach Carol Jue, Head Women’s Basketball Coach at Chapman University. With over 300 career wins and countless accolades, Carol is the all-time winningest coach in Chapman’s history. She’s built a program that is a force to be reckoned with, leading the Panthers to nine NCAA Tournament appearances and multiple SCIAC titles.

In this episode, we cover:

• Carol’s Coaching Philosophy: The mindset behind her intense, full-court press and high-paced offense.
• Building Championship Teams: How she maximizes her players' potential and teaches them to play with aggressiveness, regardless of size.
• The Winning Culture at Chapman: What it takes to lead a team to success year after year.
• International Coaching Experiences: Carol’s unique perspective gained through international tours and experiences.
• Leadership & Resilience: The core qualities that make Carol’s coaching approach so impactful.

Whether you’re a coach, athlete, or fan, you’ll walk away with valuable insights on leadership, team-building, and what it takes to make a significant impact on and off the court.

And don’t forget to visit my website at coachmattrogers.com. You can purchase my book Significant Recruiting, read my weekly blog, and schedule a recruiting strategy session. If you’re a school or organization, you can also book me to speak on recruiting, leadership, and the journey to college.

Transcript

0:16

Welcome back to another episode of The Significant Coaching Podcast. I'm your host Matt Rogers, and this week we have an incredibly special guest, someone I've not only coached against, but deeply respect for the way she elevates her program and the game of basketball. Join us today is Coach Carol Jew, the head women's basketball coach at Chapman University in Southern California. In her 21 years leading the Panthers, Carol has become a true powerhouse in the world of NCAA Division three basketball. With over 300 career wins, she's Chapman's all time winnings coach, and for good reason. Her ability to coach with intensity, discipline and relentless energy is unmatched. Now I have to say, Carol Jew is one of my favorite coaches to go head to head with when I was at the University of Laverne. Preparing to face her teams was always a challenge. Her explosive. Full court press and high-paced offense are tough to simulate and her players though rarely over six feet tall, never, and I mean, never get outmatched. The way her teams play with such aggressiveness and heart is something you have to experience firsthand. It is a testament to her coaching acumen and her ability to get the best out of every player, no matter their size or experience. In addition to her success on the court, Carol has led Chapman to numerous accolades, including seven appearances in the Sky Act Tournament and nine NCAA division three playoff births. She's coached five All West Region selections, and under her leadership, Chapman has made an incredible mark as one of the elite programs in the West region. Perhaps one of the most memorable moments of her career came in the 2017 18 season when Carol and the Panthers won their first ever kayak tournament. Title Clinching Incredible Double Overtime Victory over Claremont Muds Scripts that win kept off an unforgettable season with a 15 in one conference record and a 23 and five overall Mark, the best Chapman has had in over a decade. Her coaching staff's recognition as the scac Coaching staff of the year was truly deserved. Carol's accolades go beyond the court. In 2009, she was honored as the only Chinese American head basketball coach in the NCAA by the Chinese Historical Society of Southern California. She's also taken her teams on international tours to Taiwan, where they played in prestigious tournaments like the Jones Cup and the BLIA tournament. So without further ado, I'm thrilled to welcome to the podcast one of the most respected, dynamic and inspiring coaches I've had the privilege to compete against and someone I'm very proud to call a friend. Here's Coach Carol Jew. Coach are you still the only Chinese American head basketball coach in all of ncaa? No, there actually Pomona Pitzer, she, she's Chinese. I think there's more I. There's more. It was, but you were the only one for a long time, right? I believe so. That was amazing When they did a fact check and they, honored that I couldn't believe it. but it was amazing to have them fact check that, but if you were half and you didn't have the name maybe they couldn't find it. Yeah, but still, even just what you've accomplished and such a great role model for the Chinese American community and just how you've run your program and how you run your life and the leader you are. So it's just, it was just a really cool thing and I never saw that before. Thank you. never realized until, someone tells you like, Hey, yeah, wow. That's an amazing thing. Yeah. Because I just look as Hey, I love coaching. Yeah. I love playing. I still try. And you forget sometimes you're this, Public figure. Yeah. Yeah, you do. We're teachers at heart and I know you are too. You're walking into your classroom every day to do your job and to do something you love. So it's you don't think about the other things, yeah. and day-to-day life, basketball's been a part of my life, since 10 years old. And the funny thing is my dad played till he was 80. And then Covid hit and I could see that just took a toll on his body. And he loved to play. It was a ball hog, did you said he's a ball hog? Yeah, all he did was really shoot and funny'cause we would play, family would play Thanksgivings. We all get together, my sister and I played, we were playing together and then so the family would play and then my sons were playing. And every Thursday night he would. Have open gym. And then before I moved out here, I would go play with him and I, of course had to be the point guard and get him the ball so he could but every, he was older than everybody else, so he was in his sixties, seventies, so he was always 10 years older. They would let my dad travel a little bit or whatever. And I was like, it is funny to watch him just, but he enjoyed it. And then on Tuesday nights he would play in Chinatown. And so all his buddies, so he, every, and there was a while of Thanksgiving where he was traveling the world playing basketball with his over 60, over 70, team. that's so great. did he ever do Senior Olympics or anything like that? No, but it was like that. So there was one year, it was in China one year. It was in, a couple times it was in China and the one time it was in Seattle. So half his team schedules. To come back early. And they made the championship game. And my dad says I'm the only one left. And none of one's gonna change their flight. So they have to pick up players. And then he goes, and essentially they don't win the championship because you have all subs. And I said, who does that? You guys should have played until Sunday. He goes, but he goes, normally we don't win.'cause they play against ex Olympians. From China. And so it was really, amazing. I hope I'm still playing at 80. I hope so too. Gosh, that's so great. I had to give it up. I threw out my back, I was still trying to play against college kids in my forties, and I threw out my back and rolled my ankle bad, and I was like, okay, that's it. So I miss it, but my body doesn't miss it. I know it's the aftermath. I try to play in an over 40 league so I can keep up. Yeah. And then I got into another league where it's like all ages and I'm like, just, okay, I'm sitting screens and I'm just gonna run a bit down the floor. I wasn't the player you were. I relied on my speed and my quickness and getting the, I was a point guard, like you and. I couldn't shoot. So now I don't have any speed and I don't have any quickness and I never could shoot. So it's a waste for me to play well. I'm not playing guard, I'm playing post. So that's where they started to move me, yeah. I love now sitting screens and getting somebody open. Yeah. That's about all I'm good for anymore. one of the big things I wanna talk about is the Asian American community, in Southern California and in California in general. You did such a great job of tapping into that from a recruiting standpoint. you found those passionate kids that were athletic and, maybe were a little undersized, but had all the skill in the world. I don't know if you remember this, but my wife is Japanese and my kids are half Japanese. So it was always such a great thing for me to see. To be able to show my daughter the role models that were on the floor and how hard they worked and how well they played together. Has that been intentional throughout your career? Not really. but I'll tell you, I played in sc. I. And I could tell you there was a handful of Asians in the league. And we knew who we were. And it's funny that one of'em played at Oxy, Sharon Wa and we became teammates in the Asian community, Asian leagues. Yeah. And we'd laugh and we'd talk, she would talk about oh yeah I was wondering how it felt like to play with, if you played, if I played for Jody Burton. Okay. Or we just talk about that. But it was just something later that I said. Okay. If I it wasn't intentional, but it's something that I knew. Yeah. And it wasn't until a parent told me and I was, assistant and interim coach at Claremont before I came to Chapman. Yeah. This dad was like, man, you gave my daughter a chance. Yeah. And I was like, what? He goes, you gave her an opportunity. She would've never played college. Yeah. And I didn't think of that. I was just thinking I wanted to play college because. We lost in the second round of CIF where I was at Monte Bell High, and I had the itch. I didn't wanna stop playing, so I walk on the Cal State LA as a D two and of course I don't get to play. And I'm like, okay, I gotta go somewhere else. I wanna play. Yeah. So I ended up at Claremont, there was that community. And then it was funny, I had an assistant, I had been at Chapman for 10 years and she was like, oh, I really like this kid who's five foot and she happened to be Asian. It just morphed that way. And then I started going that way.'cause then people were telling me, Hey, there's a kid here. Here's a kid, here's all the connections. So I would say the first 10 years it was all word of mouth. And they happened to be Asian. Yeah. and because they've been playing since they were five. Then their parents played. So there was this niche that I just fell into. Yeah. what a great thing though. So many of those kids are being taught, and I don't know if it's still the same way, but they were being taught the fundamentals. They were taught how to defend off the ball. Where to pressure, when to pressure, how to block out. So you were getting those kids, you obviously raising them and training them in the right way, but you were getting a lot of kids that really knew how to play the game. Yeah, and it was funny because then you start to say okay, you have an opportunity to play. and like one of the kids who was five feet tall, Lauren Katama, who ended up being a hall of famer for us at five feet. And then she's, head coach at North Torrance High School. And, you know they're winning there too, right? Yeah. So it was like looking at her and she said, her mother had told me this, that she realized she could play with the bigger kids.'cause she was smarter. And impeccable IQ extension of me. Yeah. And where her dad and I still laugh about it today and yeah. You didn't have to stand up that much because she would help run it. She was so smart. Yeah. And then it was to make everybody else better. When you have one player that can make everybody else better. Yeah. Hey, just catch my ball and shoot it. It is. Or it's infectious? Because then if one or two or three are playing D, you hope all five will play D and then everybody's buying into it. And that's what it was. So like here I'm 50 something, I'm still playing. Yeah. So you had to find the kids that wanted to go to another level. And Lauren was one of'em. Are you finding that harder and harder to find those kids that just are gym rats and love it? Yeah, I think now that there's so many other things to do, COVID had a little bit to it. We can't coach the way we used to. that's a tough thing. Like I wanna be hardnosed, but really it's bigger than basketball. But when you're in it and you're coaching these kids, and my decimal of my voice goes up. That's okay, I had to recruit. Come by and she came all the way, from back east. And I think she, because I said, you have to, like how I coach you don't, I don't want any surprises. And I think when I made fun, or I wrote left or right on my kids' hand.'cause I said, don't forget she does that. And I think I was like, okay, this is not for me. And it's true. So it's funny how the really great programs like you have at Chapman, where the coaches are really clear. Hey, this is who we are. Do your research. if this is the only place you gotta play and that's why you're coming here, you might wanna rethink that. watch me on YouTube.'cause you might not like the way I coach, but it's funny that people only see me those two hours or when I used to coach my boys. Yeah. We run the same plays. And people were like, oh, she's mean. And then they talk to me and they go, oh, you're pretty nice. I was like, that's just two hours. That's right. It's your fire. it's a part Of the journey that I think is getting lost in sports. It's so important that you learn how to hear a coach's words and not their tone and learn how to overcome that adversity I might have to sit a little bit, I might have to watch a little bit. it might take me a year to learn the press that coach wants me to learn and the defense coach wants me to learn. If I'm patient. Good things are good. you would hope. and that's why I always try to tell the parents let us coach trust. but then the kids gotta do the work and they gotta be honest about their work. but if parents or your friends are in the way of saying you should be playing, you should be starting, it's just okay, but you gotta understand what we're doing.'cause I really would not do it. I wouldn't play a kid because I don't like them. I wanna be liked. You wanna win. Yeah. We wanna win. And so sometimes it takes a while. I remember a kid at Cal State LA going, Hey, parents said, I should be starting, I should be playing. I go, but they're not at practice. And then I was like, we put you in the game. You have 3001 minute. And so you try to explain that. And then one, become a coach, and then they come back to you 10 years later and go, oh, I get it. My blog this week is exactly that. This is how a, an athlete thinks, and this is how a coach thinks. Coach, I'm making 40% of my threes. I'm benching 20 pounds more. I'm faster. You still can't find your man in transition. Yeah. You still get screened way too easily. You don't block out consistently. And that's how we think. Exactly. Effort. Effort, energy, consistency. Yeah. Pace. And that's why I said you gotta put the effort in defense and you have to show that you wanna play defense. And even if you're not sure, I think it's energy out there. And it's not fun when half the team's doing it and half the team's not doing it. Especially the way your program works. you can't afford to have one or two, not follow through. it looks like everybody's connected by a string the way it's supposed to be. it's all smoke and mirrors coach. No, it's not. I've been waiting 15 years to have this conversation with you. can we talk press? Oh, absolutely. I love the way you coach the press. I love the way your team's play. I hate having to coach against it. I don't have the nightmares anymore preparing for you. So it's been good. I've had good 15 years. I sleep a lot better when I don't have to face your teeth. But talk to me about the foundation. Of where you start with your press.'cause I don't know what you call it, but for me it's a ball press. It just, it's supposed to be a known, right? As soon as you score, you're not, there's no time to high five. That's right there. You just gotta turn around and say, okay, we're trying to get a five second call here. No one likes pressure. No one does. No, I don't care if you're the best ball handler. And the best iq. and we've had people beat us, on their press, and then you had to lay it off, right? But the whole thing is, get the five second call, get in and get the ten second call, and then how much time do you have left to really run an offense because you've been through all that pressure Make them go to their weekend, make'em go to a sideline.'cause when we had both the Christina and Linda Lee, two sisters That went for sideline, the other one. Turn them. Turn them, and then cause a turnover. Without fouling. And so if you have those beliefs. People are gonna rotate, people are gonna take chances. Where I think for the longest time it was like, okay, you just guard your men and you're good. And if they don't score, that's okay. But rev up the game, right? And I wanted to, I played for a team, and this is where the foundation I played for, an Asia team called the Imperials. They were all ex-college players, 10 years older than me. So when they went to party, I couldn't go'cause I was 19. They taught me a work ethic. Yeah. Like I was sitting on the bench on a rec team and I vowed to okay, I'm gonna work harder. Yeah. And here I'm a post on their team. I'm slow as mud. And then, at Claremont I'm considered like I'm pretty good as a point guard. Then you go here, I got picked left and right. So you learned how to play Point. Yeah. And you have to play good defense. And you had to rotate you. You're not just guarding your person. It's full court and it's causing turnovers. It's so hard. At least for me, it's so hard to teach that to an 18-year-old. Does it start with recruiting for you where you're looking for certain things or do you just know I'm bringing this kid in with skills and an attitude and energy? I can teach her. Fun, the fundamentals of what we're trying to do. Where does this start? I really think the fit is that you gotta like us, what we're doing. And I'm gonna mold you. this is the thing that I started to get and I started to listen to people that would play for me later. I didn't know I had it in me. Yeah. Believe that. you pushed me to another level and now I'm in the workforce. I wouldn't, I don't know if I knew I had that. Yeah. Like we just had another hall of Famer, Kimmi Taca, she was around when I was coaches. Yes. 10th 2011, 12, yeah. Just became a hall of famer. Great. And at five six, and here's the thing. I had my assistants finder and could shoot had, was athletic and. She comes to a game and then in her mind, I'm not good enough. I don't find this out till her senior year and we're heading to Whitman for the playoffs. Her mom told me she wasn't gonna play. She was gonna come here and say, thanks, coach two, I got, I'm here, And I'm quitting. She ended up playing as a freshman and, impeccable shooter could grade her own shot. I found out that she didn't think she was good enough. And then, she starts the next three years and starts to get confident. And like I said, you gotta demand the ball. And she could jump out of the gym. She believed in the defense. And I don't think there was a single person she played with that didn't like her. Because she didn't yell at anybody until she's okay, gimme the ball. And stomped her foot like I would do with my heels and asked for it. but Kimmy learned, how to play and how everybody respected her. Everyone loved her. because you know what? She just worked hard. And that's a testimony to being a Hall of Famer. But here's someone that said to me, I would've been okay going to a uc and becoming a physical therapist. She still became a physical therapist, and is. But she played really good basketball. Yeah. And she was the comradery, everything, right? Yeah. Here's, I feel like that's the opportunity I'm giving. And here's somebody that played at a small school, LaSalle High School in Pasadena, or Arcadia in that area, and, was okay up and down the floor. I'm gonna score 20, but I, pushed'em to another level like they didn't even know they had I just push and she didn't like to get yelled at and she'll remember the times I did yell at her. She goes, oh, remember that time at Redlands? I go, yeah, I remember because I said, Kimmy, come on, we need you. It's our culture. It's don't cause waves. Don't get yelled at. If you do get yelled, you better find a way. Yeah. To not get yelled at. And so here's another hall of famer. So is this who you were in the beginning? have you changed? have you gotten more confident or changed your mentality, your authenticity? Or have you always been this version of you? Honestly, I'm not sure. I would say that, yeah, I'm hardnosed It's funny when people describe me no nonsense. too serious. And I don't look at myself that way. But when I do coach, I wanna win. I'm not out there. To just be out there. But I know that I've changed a lot of my coaching style because can't cuss as much. Or you gotta say things and if you're going to get on someone, also tell'em what they're doing. Great. And then talk to'em afterwards. because I always coached by men and the men that coached me, they would be hard. Yeah. Then I remember in high school crying one time going do you not like me? And he goes, no, it's what we always hear. We're hardest, on the best ones. We are the one with the most potential. And you get that and you want God, you just don't want them to just be okay. I want them to be great. And as the years went by and listening to alums tell me, yeah, I just hated this, but. Or make fun of me because I'm yelling. Or I did a wedding video and they're like, coach, can you do the joy? Come here. Or even a old high school kid goes, I still remember when you said, So it resonates. And I go, I felt bad. But I think I've had to tone it down.'cause it's just a different error. It is. it's hard for me, I've been coaching high school a little bit, helping here and there and it's just, I love the game so much and it's so hard to find kids that love the game anymore. It's like, why are you playing? I like to shoot. Okay, there's A-Y-M-C-A over here. Go shoot. There's more to this. You gotta love it. it's gotta be important to you. And it's hard for me to coach kids that don't see it that way. and then coaching our own kids. Coaching my two boys. Since second grade or even younger. I taught them about passing the ball. defense, and they're just as competitive. when my older one ended up not playing his senior year because. His high school decided to bring all transfers in I said, oh, heck no. My younger one's not going there. I had taught them, I didn't know boys basketball really, you gotta be a great shooter or they don't really wanna play you. But I found a coach in my younger son, Carson's coach, that he valued defense and he turned my son Carson into one of the best defense players I've ever seen Did not let their best Score. Yeah. At the highest level. And it's funny'cause people said why don't your kids play college? And I said, you know what? I found it like a college program since second grade. Yeah. And I coached a lot of the kids. I was trying to prep them for high school. And some appreciated, some were like, ah, I can't stand this. She just keeps yelling at me. But it was more like I try to control it to say, watch what's happening. Yeah. And I think at the end of the day, it was, it's hard to be in the stands as a parent. It is. But I also trusted Carson's high school coach. Good. He was good. That's great. That's so great to hear. So I found somebody, except it is funny, a shout out to, coach Meyer. I said, whereas alike except I have hair, he doesn't, I love it. It's, that is where the heart of the game comes for me. When you get to teach something and you can see them grow and that they're growing past what you said, past what they thought they potentially even was. I feel like that's our job, isn't it? Exactly. That it's bigger than Basco. And this is what I tell every recruit, you're gonna come here. I wanna know what you're doing 10 years from now. Yeah. I'm still gonna weddings I find out, things are happening in their life. Yeah. one day when I looked up at the stands and I said, wow, a lot of alums are here today. Yeah. And I said, wow, this is great. They were there for a purpose. I had no idea. And I guess I was gonna get a certain how many wins and it my assistant had, and our SID put that together, like bringing people there. And I said, you know what? This is what it's all about. And taking pictures with them and showing how many years it's been. Yeah. And even when I was an assistant at Cal LA, I still see those kids too, and they're having kids or they're. Whatever is happening or they're having a crisis with a partner and they're like, okay, come over and we talk till one, two in the morning. It's still happening. Yeah. Yep. And that's why it's more than basketball, that we had that time in basketball with the trust, the love, the heartache. Yeah. The emotional times together that she's not just thinking about how are you gonna help me win? Yeah. How are you gonna help me win in life? Yes. No, It doesn't. All right. You're making me go away from where I wanted to be. I wanna talk about this press of yours. Okay. Because teaching kids how to read and react and watch the game, and know when to go trap, when to get to the middle, when to rotate back, when to pick up that loose player. it's impossible for a lot of coaches. And your kids just seem to own it. They own it from, it seems like. how do you start that? How do you get those kids to react and rotate? Like I said, you go from offensive drill, and let's just say we do a five man weave. And then it could become a three on two. So you gotta designate and say, okay, as soon as that ball goes through the hoop, two of you guys become defenders. And then we bring a third defender running down saying, Hey, I'm your eyes And then I go, your job is to try to get a five second call. It's hard to do, but when you do it in a game, it's just wow. But that's the rotation. so you gotta Kick the fear out of them because they don't know they're questioning it. And you just gotta go, just go. it's like letting go in life, Yeah. So you just gotta go. Just go and we'll rotate for each other because you still got four other players in the back. Yeah. And you have two other teammates that are supposed to rotate for you. So really, that's where it starts, is just going from an offense and then to a defense, shift your gear. And then that's why I was saying there's no time to high five. So you gotta work on wanting to move and rotate and it's really all up here. So you gotta do that early on and just drill it.'cause really, when I look at it, by the time the juniors and seniors, they're like, just go. They're apprehensive when they're freshmen and sophomores still. But as juniors and seniors, you're like, okay, this is what we're trying to do. You just have to have that guts, the grit to go. the whole thing is communication too. do we double? Do we run and jump? And sometimes you gotta just tell them. that's why I'm always chatting on the floor, not with the ref.'cause I don't know how to talk to a ref really. I'm telling them, go. Why not? And then you try to show it on film because you're like, whoa. a lot of it is scared to go Do you, there's that fear the consistency of what you're doing every day get rid of that fear? Is it you saying just go and the seniors are saying, just go, it's a belief system in anything. And then you just gotta drill it and you just gotta. Try to get them to understand that'cause it's funny'cause I had a freshman tell me last year this doesn't work. And I said, trust it. Just do it. And here's my assistant giving a dissertation at halftime. And then I said, so we get back in it and then she gets a steal and then something else happens. And I said, oh, it doesn't work. It's making them crazy. Yes. You found ways to break it? We did. It was rare and few and far between. But most coaches when they run anything like a run and jump or a ball press, typically you have that kid in the back who's six foot six one a rim defender, force a bad layup, force a turnover back there. But I don't remember you ever having anybody over five, nine. Yeah that's the one thing I have the hardest time getting six footers to come here. But the thing is, and now in this day and age, they're not going to the hoop. They're taking threes. and it's hard for a post to go, okay, now it was a two on one and I said, stay out'cause they're shooting threes and making'em. Sometimes they're gonna score a layup on us, right? But you know what? You gotta take those because I like the greater good of being able to put pressure and making the point guard have to keep second guessing. Yeah, especially if they're the point guard that's used to playing 37, 38 minutes per game and all of a sudden they're having to exert 10 times the energy for that amount. The biggest compliment I ever got was I was coaching my son and I recognized the girl's score keeping and she played at viola. I go, you look familiar. And she goes, you look familiar. And then I said, oh, I coach a chat. She goes, oh, you're a press. And I went, oh. And I remember her and I said, oh yeah, you were really good. She goes, and you didn't let me touch the ball. And I said, okay, we're doing something. It's such a fun way to play if you can get over your insecurity about how fast it is. Because yes, we may give up lap. Yes, we may give up a three, but we are making them go deep into their bench. We're wearing them out and at the end of the game when they're playing, their eighth, ninth player and they're used to only playing seven and their top five is exhausted with four foul. Yeah. Yeah. The game should be over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It should be. It is funny. One time we forced 50 turnovers, but I was very conscientious of the score, because you don't wanna be a jerk about that. Yeah. And then I looked at, and the coach got really mad. I'm not gonna play you ever again. And I was like you know it, we still made it respectable. I was 20 right. But, we wanted everybody to, practice it because, your bench doesn't get to practice it. That's right. In practice it's one thing to do it in a game, but it's hard to mimic what we do if we do it right. It's so hard, especially if you only have a day or two to practice before you get to you. Yeah. Trying to run a scout against that it's so hard because there's no, it's not a foundation like a 1 3, 1. Or a diamond press. It is. And communication. If those are the things that you can do it I'm gonna say really that first 10 years, those groups talked. Yeah. They made me look good. It's the encouragement you gave them. It's the independence and the freedom to say, just go it. And, I get calls about, I coach the system for so many years and coaches will call me and say, Matt, I don't have any size. We don't have a lot of talent. We think we're gonna run the system. And I go, if you can run the system without any size and not a lot of talent, why wouldn't you run it when you have some size. Yeah, it's the same with your press. If you can get kids to work hard and run the floor and talk to each other, man, it's so much fun. It is like you gotta be ball magnets. That's the whole thing. Yeah. I think for young coaches that wanna play at your pace and play with your intensity, so often they give up so fast because they did give up a couple lay-ups. It's such a 40 minute mentality. Yeah. It's a grand purpose of you gotta tire them out. Yeah. and that's really the whole thing is they can't make those decisions at the end of the game. they don't have any legs left. No, they're missing layups. they're short on their threes, they're short on their free throws. anybody that wants to play the game and coach the game with their hair on fire. I need to sit, watch you play me, because every kid wants it. Now it's, the idea is, do I wanna work that hard? Yes. You're right. do I really wanna be in this type of shape. Because your kids are always in such great shape. let's transition here a little bit. I wanna talk, get into your recruiting a little bit. I know you use your assistance really well and what is your mindset? Every year when it comes to your class, does it start with what your returners, what you know you got coming back, where your weaknesses are? Are you filling positions? What is your mindset when you're charting what you wanna bring in the next year? It's, it changes every year, but, we're always looking for a six footer. Because I'm an inside outside coach still. I like, and you gotta find someone that's gonna want to put their back To the basket. Yeah. And that's not easy to find anymore. So I'm still looking for those. And you always gotta find the guards that have that pace. The energy.'cause you gotta still find those players. there was a year where 10 was to come back and nine did it. Boy was I, it was scrambling. I bet that was like my third year. And, I had recruited, I had a bunch of JC transfers, and then I got two out of my stretching class that played high school. So we had a team of nine. We went six and five. During, after Christmas, we had just come back from Seattle and one kid says, you know what? I'm homesick. I'm going back to Ohio. And so we asked one player to come back. After Christmas we, we rolled 17th straight. Wow. It was before you got there. We played Laverne in the first NCAA playoffs and with that team of nine we rolled 17 straight. Crazy. And we're down 17 actually against Laverne in the first round playoffs. This is when we're independent. We weren't yet in the conference. Ended up winning that game at overtime. Lauren Caama has 30 points, 17 for 18 free throws. Wow. Her junior year. And then they send us to Brownwood, Texas where the population is 20,000, 5,000 when was at the game. Crazy. Ended up losing by 20 something. And at 10 minutes left in the game, said we'd like to thank the Lady Panthers for coming. All the way to Brownwood, Texas yourself. I was like, this game's not over, but we didn't, of course. so that was a humbling experience for me when nine players didn't come back. And then after I, I haven't had that problem. Chapman sells itself. I have a wealth of people that recommend players to me. Okay. So in the last five, six years, I've said to people, okay, you gotta know if I'm your fit. I might not be. I don't want you to come here. And I've had several people come and it's just you know what? In Oregon we don't have a shock clock. I don't really wanna play defense. No offense to you, but I don't wanna play. Oh, she said probably not gonna last a year anyways. Yeah. these wheels are turning or Yeah. You're just hard. I don't know what it's like in high school and you're together the whole time because you want to be, but I, we're only together right? Six months. That's right. So we gotta get things done. So for me, recruiting, they gotta know. I really encourage them to watch our team. I ask'em when they come to practice. I ask'em to talk to our players. I have an elite camp. I've got the last few years, 50% of'em there. Good. So I'm looking for kids that have energy that they're gonna have to have on the court, that they're gonna wanna talk and really the biggest thing is they gotta be good people. And I don't know that for a fact. Until you get'em. Yeah. Until they get on campus. But I keep saying, I can't guarantee anything. I'm not gonna guarantee playing time. I'm not gonna guarantee a spot a team. You have to like what you have here. Yeah. Academically. And I have to say it because, I'll have, a kid will say you promised me. I go, oh no. I never promised. Yeah. Because I would be lying to you. Yeah. I had two conversations with two people who already got into Chatman just yesterday, and I just said. Everybody's coming back and I would hate for you to say, yeah, come and I don't have a spot. And I can't guarantee that. Someone might quit along the way. I've had some injuries, some people last minute say, Hey, I don't wanna do this. Which is okay. Yeah. But they have to fit, meaning they gotta wanna work. And I keep telling'em, you have to push yourself and I'm gonna push you. I'm gonna get on you is because I really want you to be at another level. I wouldn't be doing my job. So that's my biggest spiel. I stick to it as much as I can. you have to really watch how we are and you have to like what yeah. Because it's not just basketball, but it's family and family doesn't always get along. And so a lot of friends that help recruit know. What the type of player I'm looking for. Absolutely. And when you find those people you keep going back to the because they understand. They understand you. And the parents have to understand,'cause you end up having them and you have to say, whoa, you gotta let me coach. How far out are you recruiting? Are you focused? I'm sure you're 25. Class is pretty wrapped up. We're hoping they come because remember at our level, we don't offer the scholarships. Yeah. So you've got your, the ones that have signed their financial aid and No, not actually. It's been tough with financial aid, but I do have everyone coming back. I have, a point guard starting point coming back from ACL surgery, so she'll be back Nice. And someone with a back. So we do have everybody coming back. It's tough to say because. Chapman, like again, sells itself. Yeah. And you get all these letters like, Hey, I wanna try, I wanna walk. And when they come and they see the timing of it all, sometimes they just stop like that year with nine players just saying, Hey, I gotta do other things. Yeah. I've been going all the way down to now, 27. There's been a good skill out there. I was just talking to a junior last night and I think she'd be a great fit for us'cause she, it's about team and she likes to play defense and she's five 10, which is great for us. she's going into the state tournament this weekend and luckily for now livestream, it's easier Than trying to get somewhere. it's just finding the right people in the right fit. Every coach has gotta do it the way that feels. And you've been doing it long enough that you know what your timing looks like. Yeah. I'm sure if you see a sophomore that's really good you'll say something to them or say something to their coach. Like I just lost a five 11 girl to one of the Oregon schools, and I thought, oh, the girl ran the floor. Very coachable. And she decided to go somewhere else. I was hoping she'd come and I was like, you would've been stealing all these balls off the press. That's right. It's a killer. So then it gets just, I get my heart broken. And one year we had a six three kid from China who lived in. Yucca Valley and kept, it deposited and everything. And last minute she goes, my dad wants me to go to a D one in Louisiana. I was like, you could really help us. She ended up graduating. I think she got her school paid for, but I don't think she played as much as she could at our school. So it breaks my heart. recruiting is really hard for me. It always breaks your heart. Yeah. That's part of the game. You're not gonna get every kid, but, we invest into these kids'cause we wanna be around'em for the next four years we see their potential. Yes. how many kids are you carrying typically on your roster? last year was like 13. This year was like 16. So I try to keep it between. 13 to 16 because there's times where there's injuries. and it happened in our conference where, I saw five kids out on one team, and there was only six on the bench. That was my three years at Laverne. everybody was in street clubs. Yeah. It's still happening like that. I think the biggest thing that I've seen this year with our conference Is the injuries? when we lost our point guard, that just put us in a little bit of tailspin and we didn't have our center. That was the person that would be communicating boxing out. everybody in our conference had a major injury like an ACL tear. Crazy. And you could see how it trickles down. I would say most of the time we're always healthy, but we always had an ACL tear here and there. But then it meant an opportunity for someone to step up. it's different when you're young. You can bounce back. How many do you play Every game? about 10, 10, 11. With the pace we play. It doesn't always happen that way, but we try. Like with our point guard this year, a freshman got to play and she played great defense for us. like I said, it's another opportunity. You take'em when they come. our sophomores saying, just be patient, but you better be ready to play. Because you don't want to, and I won't say it. Poop in your pants. I like how you pull back for the podcast, and don't say the really way that you'll, you'd say it, maybe that or, we've had, like I said, we've had kids and so yes, you have to know when to, when not to. Coach, I can pick your brain all day. I've gotta get to California between October and February and just if you'll let me, I just want to come and watch a couple practices. Would love to have you, Matt, always classy and very respectful and when I read, when you were writing your stuff and I found my name and I was like, let's do's writing about me. How cool is that? I've been coaching for 25 years, 26, whatever, no, 28 years. Like you, we've been doing this a long time and there's coaches that we go up against that we're like, gosh, I. They're doing something so unique, so special. The preparation is so hard and for me, you're one of those Hall of Famers, there's four or five Hall of Fame coaches that I'm like, gosh, there's so much I learned from you. Playing against your teams, watching all the film, getting my girls ready to play against your girls. It was just always a great challenge for me. It was always so much fun, even though I usually walked out with my tail between my legs, but it was, there's just something special about what you do, that it's important for me that. People get, you get the credit for that.'cause it's really great what you do. I appreciate that. Thank you. It's such an honor. the respect that we have for each other when we coached against each other. You know what I mean? Yeah. means a lot.'cause this wasn't gonna be my first gig. I didn't ever plan to coach. Yeah. I was an accountant. I wanted to make money Turned to my husband at 20 something years old and said, can I coach? Didn't think I would stick, but I have to say that I'm really fortunate that I can, and I hope I could keep doing this for a long time. Our profession is better because of you, and you're so nice. I just happened to have our second child in the middle of my last season of Laverne, and I just, couldn't do it anymore. I wasn't finding the joy because I felt like I was being a bad dad, I wasn't there for them. So when I get to see what you're doing and how you continue to do it. You're such a role model for coaches and families need to understand this is how it's supposed to be, what you do and how you do it. and when you allow a coach to teach and mentor the way you do it, your child is gonna be so much better for the rest of their life and we've lost you. Hope I appreciate that. You have to have the right partner, right? Yes. That's gonna let you do that. You do. and I have to thank my husband, Kevin, that. You don't, you know it, it's, you're not working. You're working too hard. And when it was during season, he took care of everything. And that let me be a coach. And I'm really fortunate that I found somebody that we could do it together. And he loves basketball as much as I do because here we watch both our sons and after they play the game and he films it, we go home and watch it. That's crazy. It's so much fun. We miss it now that they're both out of high school, so Yeah. Yeah. we're really trying, that's what it's become, I'm a volleyball dad. I'm in a volleyball gym every night and every weekend and just loving the heck out of it and. Just want her to learn how to deal with adversity and learn how to figure out who she is. Coach, I, again, I could talk to you all day. I've got a couple questions I ask every coach. Okay. And I just want to get your thoughts on this. If I put you in a room and, let's say you're in an auditorium with 300 families the question is. How do we get started? if I wanna play for a coach Jew at Chapman, or if I wanna play college basketball, where do I start? what advice do you give families about recruitment? what path is the healthiest way for families to get started? I think you get, email, it's funny'cause I'm helping somebody that, I coach a boy, who played at Bosco. St. John Bosco, and he played with my son and he's looking for a college to play for next year. And some coaches say, Hey, wait for them to come to you. But in our 20 something years of technology, I think you gotta go to them too. I think you gotta do both, right? And I found some gems through watching video, so reach out to coaches. And show some videos. And I always say this when, at our camps and when we have, clinics, one highlight is good, but not 20 But I wanna see a full game. Because I'm watching your mannerisms. How you interact with your teammates, how you interact with your coach and what you're doing on the bench. That's right. You right. If you're taking your shoes off before the game's ending, maybe not come to us. That's true. Like I even tell our players, I go, I'm watching you guys on the bench. You're not cheering for your team. I don't think you should be on this team. So technology does help. You should reach out to the coach and especially, I have some kids saying I got a GPA of a 3.2. That's real tough to come in to chat. And you might not get any money. Merit money. So you have to think about those things. and I did have a kid one year as a senior, was like a 2.9. And she goes no one told me I should get good grades. I go, I wish. and I had an eighth grader many years ago. what advice do you have to me? I said, you know what? Get the highest grades you can. So then eight years later, She's right there, Hailey. And she goes, coach, I remember what you told me. I go, what did I tell you? You told me to get good grades. I have a 4.0. I go, great. You wanna come? Yeah. And she says, no, I need to get away. I was like, okay. So I called two places, a Minnesota school, and I called University of Dallas. Dallas played, she played there four years, started, became a physical therapist. That's awesome. So I said, if this kid listened to me, maybe hundreds more. Might be the same thing. And to this day I see them and I said, you are my story. Hay. Yeah. that would be my first thing is if you want something, you gotta seek it out, then you gotta come on campus and then you gotta figure out is it the right fit? and for us, can you afford it? it's simple. It's practical, it's logical advice. because once you understand that this is a business, it's an institution of education, but it's a business. if Chapman's not making profit, it's hard to pay your teachers and your coaches and pay the water bill. They're gonna give the money to the kids. Have proven that they can come, they can go to college and do well. Look at we're, we are having some of our state schools in California taking away athletics. Sonoma State and then I think San Francisco state's taken away three teams. It's crazy. Is there a piece of significant advice you'd share with our audience that doesn't even have to do with basketball? It doesn't have to do with sports, but is there something that you find yourself sharing? I just think that find the best version of you. like I said, when I listened to the alum say, I had no idea. I had this in me. Okay, so what was I doing to help you with that? That every day we came to practice, there's a comradery. So if you're gonna find the best version and you're not afraid to mess up and what people will say, failures, I don't like that. It's like challenges, yeah. you gotta go through the hard stuff to get to the best stuff. Totally. And it's never gonna be the best yet. Yeah, there's always something better. But if you're not enjoying the journey and going through the process, you're never gonna get to where you're supposed to be. Yeah. So I learned this phrase yesterday in a master's leadership class. Successes. Successes in motion. Instead of saying failures like. We're going through, we're getting our success in motion. Yeah. and I had said something to the class, I said words matter. So I don't like to say failures. I don't like to say weakness. So I say challenges because Yeah, words do matter and the brain doesn't know if it's real or not. You know what? Feed your brain with all the positive things that you can say. Especially when those damn referees keep showing up. Oh, and then they're not looking at the same things we're looking at. Coach. It's such an honor to have you and talk to you. It's a great honor to know that you're a friend, and I hope you keep doing this forever, till you're at least, 80. You gotta beat your dad. But, this was a great honor for me and I really appreciate it because it's a tough time right now, and this probably helped more than anything else than you'll ever know. I'm glad that our. Circles have met. And when you come back to Southern Cal, please bring the family. I will, we will host you and we'll take you to a great dinner. Trust me. because with us it's about food. It's all about food for us too. So it would be an honor coach. So good luck. You've got me, if you ever need anything, I'm a phone call away. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you once again to Coach Carol Jew for joining us in this week's episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast. It's always a privilege to hear from coaches who bring such passion and purpose to their work, and Carol is as passionate and purposeful as it gets her dedication to her players and her program is truly inspiring. I'm sure you're walking away from this episode with some great takeaways on leadership, resilience, and what it really means to build a winning culture. I know I am. If you've enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. Your support helps us reach more coaches, parents, and athletes who are on their own journeys of leadership. Also, don't forget to visit my website@coachmattrogers.com, where you can purchase my book, significant recruiting, read my weekly blog and schedule a recruiting strategy session. If you're a family looking to navigate the college recruitment process, schools and organizational leaders can also book me to speak on recruiting leadership and the journey to college. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, remember to lead with significance and keep pushing the limits of what's possible.