Episode #74: Kyle Crookes

🎙️ Building Championship Culture with Coach Kyle Crookes

In this episode of Significant Coaching, Matt Rogers sits down with Kyle Crookes, Head Baseball Coach at the University of Central Missouri, where tradition and excellence go hand in hand. Under Crookes' leadership, UCM has become a perennial powerhouse in Division II baseball — and today, we pull back the curtain on how he builds culture, develops players, and recruits with purpose.

Coach Crookes shares how he evaluates recruits beyond the stat sheet, why coachability matters more than hype, and what it takes to sustain elite performance year after year. From behind-the-scenes staff development to helping players become better men, this conversation is full of wisdom for coaches, athletes, and parents alike.

🔗 Learn more and access tools at coachmattrogers.com

📘 Don’t miss the 5-star rated book, Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes

🗓️ And coming this summer: sport-specific recruiting journals — companion tools to help athletes stay organized, reflective, and ready for their college journey.

Transcript

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I think our roster. I would call it unique at our level.'cause most of our rosters built from high school age kids that come on up and play. We get a junior college guy every now and again and a transfer from somewhere else too. And it doesn't matter where they come from, there's a good chance they're gonna fail when they get here. Yeah. They're not gonna be the best player on the field, I can guarantee that. You're gonna have to learn how to handle that. And you're gonna have to learn how to be humbled wherever you're coming from and know, like this may be the first time you failed. Welcome back to Significant Coaching with Matt Rogers, the podcast where we unpack leadership culture and the recruiting grind that goes with coaches who are doing it right. Today I'm joined by Kyle Crooks, who you just heard a short clip from. He's the head baseball coach at the University of Central Missouri. One of the most respected programs in Division two baseball. Coach Crooks has built a powerhouse that blends toughness with humility, structure with freedom, and tradition with relentless competitiveness. We'll dig into how he builds a roster, leads a staff, and evaluates players, not just by talent, but by fit. Don't forget to come back on Monday. For our significant recruiting segment where Coach Crooks is gonna open up about what separates a recruit, who gets offered from one who gets overlooked. Before we dive in today, make sure to subscribe to the podcast and visit coach matt rogers.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter and get access to tools to help families like you and athletes navigate the college recruiting process. And coming this summer, I'm launching my brand new sports specific recruiting journals designed as companion tools to my five star rated book significant recruiting, the playbook for prospective college athletes. Whether you're in baseball, softball, volleyball, football, or beyond, these journals will help athletes stay organized, be intentional, and be ready for the biggest conversations of their journey. Learn more@coachmattrogers.com. Alright, let's get today's conversation. Here's my talk with Coach Kyle Crooks. Coach Crooks, thank you so much for being on. I'm gonna throw a big whopper at you to start with. Let's, hypothetically the NCAA comes to you and me and says, Hey, we're gonna put you two in charge. Fixing this transfer issue, fixing this portal thing. And from the prospectus of we want kids to be not so much loyal. I hate using that. Words for kids.'cause what you and I have talked about already that coaches aren't loyal. How do we get these kids to overcome? Failure or not so much failure, but overcome this, it's not going the way I hoped I'm gonna leave for greener pastures. Where do we start to get those kids to say, gosh I came here for a reason. I'm gonna buy in for a while. Yeah, I I think you start that in the home and I hate to say this, but I'm a father. You're a father. Like we all we all have jobs as parents. I think that's probably the number one job we have here on this earth. So I think it probably starts with that. But if you're just talking about, like you said the you and me trying to solve this problem off the top of my head, if we're gonna treat this with NIL and transferring and let's call it what it is, like a free agency, so to speak. Then I think we need to treat it the way we have to put some rules and guidelines in place that professional, sports do. So like in my opinion. If you want to keep somebody going, I think like everybody that shows up as a freshman, there needs to be a threshold that they show up with in terms of NIL. Hey, listen, you haven't done anything yet. Here's your NIL cap. This is what it is, right? If you wanna earn more, I don't know. This is institutionally, but I don't know if you could do this nationally or not, but like you can, if you achieve X, you can get this. If you achieve Y you can get this. I think transferring should happen once. I think you get a freebie if the coach leaves. If coaches are leaving, then so like technically, I guess it could be twice if your coach leaves and you can go somewhere else, I think. I think one time you're asking parents and kids that are, 16, 17, 18 years old to make a decision that's gonna impact the rest of their lives. They're gonna go on recruiting visits and by nature, you know this probably better than anybody else. Everybody's getting a snapshot of the best version of who these people are or who they're projecting, coaching staff wise and players and parents. So there's a real, like everybody's being set up to be like, to be led down a primrose path that really isn't that accurate, right? So like it all depends on recruiting and how honest people are and so on, but. You're allowed to make a mistake. So if you make a mistake and the fit isn't right, like you get one. Okay, let's like, you know what wasn't right? You know what didn't work? Let's figure out now from this lesson where the next place is. But you get one, in my opinion. Yeah. The first time shame on us. The second time, you're gonna have to eat this. And you're gonna have to make it through unless your coach leaves. And if your coach leaves, and it's a terrible, fit for you or whatever. You get that three B to move on. That to me is where I would go. I think the NIL thing, it's really, it's in our space and it's around and it's talked about, but it's not in, it's not in my face like it is probably at the next level. But I would, man, I would put salary caps on every spot and I would incentivize, like staying, if you stay, you get more. If you leave, sorry, your cap is lower, you can't do that. To try to help. I guess negotiate what this is to make it more feasible at the college level. I love it, coach, because it's almost like we're throwing a yellow light at the kids. Okay. Before you transfer, think about it. This is the only shot you get. And the first thing that comes to my mind is the, is this two year role that Major League Baseball put in with throwing first base. Yeah. If I'm gonna throw to first base, yeah. I only get two shots of that third time. It's, I'm gonna get balk. So I have to really think about throwing over to first base if I'm a major league pitcher now. Yeah. So I love that mentality of just getting kids to just slow down. Yep. You can still transfer. Sure. But slow down. So I love that. Better, better, better be right? You better take your lessons. You better not just jump for the next, again, the greener pasture, so to speak.'Cause it's not always that, and that's at least my belief is it's not always that. And it's not a great lesson that we teaching our kids either. I agree. Yeah. And we talked about this before we clicked record, how important it is that it starts at home, this conversation. Yeah. I just cannot imagine being 17 years old,'cause I'm talking to these D one coaches every day and they're talking about how frustrated they are. They call a kid they love and the first thing that somebody will tell them is, you need to talk to my agent. Yeah. At 17, 18, 19 years old. Yeah. And I'm just. My dad would, wouldn't have never allowed that. Never would've even, you're going to college if they're giving you money to get pay for your education, that's all you deserve right now. You haven't earned anything else. That would've been straight outta my dad's mouth. Sure. But our parents came from a different generation too. I. And this is old man speak, which I thought I never would do, but I'm doing. But yeah, like we grew up in a different time and our parents said different things to us, and parents now aren't, like I didn't pay to play baseball in the summer either, ever. I played for my county Mac team in Tucson. That was it. And I hope Me too. Yeah. Was that, so like things are different. Parents are investing an enormous amount of money in their child's, in, in my case anyway, in baseball's case, like in their career from the time they're like nine years old, they wanna return on their investment and I get it. I understand that. I just think you're, we're still missing the larger point here and but I understand why thought processes go that way. And I hate the idea of agents or advisors or what have you, but I will say, we just talked about how difficult the decision it is to make your, life altering decision to go to college someplace to play your sport. And who's more prepared to make help you make that decision. Your parents who are financially and emotionally involved, or somebody that's a third party that may, may have a better. Understanding and a less different emotional attachment to you. The only problem is that they're still getting a percentage of what you make too. So I don't, there, there's a different type of motivation for them too, and that's to talk about. Yeah. But yeah. I didn't want to get too deep into that. I know you and I are gonna have a, another session here. We're gonna talk recruiting, but I just, I wanted your thoughts and that really helps me to hear your perspective because. I think the more parents hear what you're dealing with as a coach and what you really want out of a kid and what you want, your roster, makeup, and the character and the culture, you can't have a culture when everybody's trying to get another$10,000 and that's all they care about. It's really hard. It's I don't. There's probably a lot of things about, like as a head coach, I, how much do I really know about what my players say and what they don't? I love'em all. I believe we have a great relationship. I think this is a special place to be. So I like, I still continue to believe that this is the exception, not the rule based on the level we play at and the guys that we have here and so on. But I think it's really hard to have a great culture. In the locker room if the culture outside the locker room, that's the fans and the parents isn't good as well. That's a really hard battle to fight. There's no one more important than these kids' lives, than the people that, that grew them up. And yeah. That's a difficult battle. I've seen some kids really stand up for what I believe is right and say, no I'm where I belong. As their parents are like, Hey, you may want to think about leaving. It's hard there and you're not playing. Yeah. And then I've seen some other kids listen to their folks and say, yeah, you're right. I wanna go know. Yeah. I found and you can jump on this and tell me where I'm wrong, but I've found. The longer I coached, the more I was coaching my kids. On how to deal with all those outside influences. How to talk to mom and dad about their role, how to talk to mom and dad about the culture how to talk to them about all the things they were getting, even though they weren't playing center field every day. Maybe they were only getting four at bats in a week, or three innings in a week. But how to talk to mom and dad about that role and what that role meant to the team, things like that. Are you finding that too? That's, it's really probably a very smart thing to do. I, the thing that we try to do is, we have a very honest sit down conversation with the parents. And this actually, so this starts at a lot of camps that I, that I. Have, because we recruit a lot out of our camps, that shows an initial interest. And if we can find somebody that we feel like's a good fit, on the field and off the field, but off the field, like I start every camp with the parents and I speak to'em for about an hour. And I'm pretty honest. I'm extremely honest, probably to a fault. And I tell'em, these are the things we look for, like on the field metrically, that's the, that's part of it. The other part of it is, geographically, what can you do financially? What can you do? What are you looking for in terms of the program? Does winning matter? Does it not matter? Playing time, so on and so forth. Trying to help them make decisions and navigate those waters. But then in terms of us Hey, this is me and this is how, this is our program and this is how we operate. And if you are not okay with how some of these things sound and feel right now. You're never gonna be. So this isn't the right place. And I think that's part of what this recruiting is too. So when we have, like it starts there and then it goes on the, when we bring a kid on a recruiting trip, I catch myself stopping every now and again because it really sounds like we're trying to tell'em not to come. So it's here are all the things that could potentially. Bother you as a parent and or a player, but mostly the parents and I single them out, said, listen, this is every bit as much about you as it is the player in terms of what a fit is here.'cause he's calling you every day. He's, he's gonna come home from practice and he's gonna vent to somebody. It's probably gonna be you. And if you don't believe in what we're doing, then it's gonna be really tough for him to get information. Yeah, he sucks, or, this is not the right thing to be doing, or This program's not what you want, or blah, blah, blah. How do you expect him to show up to practice the next day and be what we are asking him to be? So there's a lot of messaging on the front end to try to prepare them for it. Now, once they get here, I deal with the players and the players only and they for, I guess I've been very fortunate. Either those conversations work or the players certainly are smart enough to know that I'm probably not gonna address their parents. I'm gonna address them as men, as adults and we have our conversations and whatever they pass on to their parents, they pass on. But I treat them as adults and I handle them as a player in this organization that will make grownup decisions and do what is best, hopefully for the program and for themselves and what we both value. I don't really talk to them about their folks once they get here, but I do address it on the front end.'cause I think it's a, I think it's a really, no, you're recruiting the whole thing. You're not just recruiting the player, you're recruiting their family, you're recruiting everything. You're inviting that in into your culture, you're inviting that into the stands. You're inviting those conversations. And the very least we need to hit that on the front end and know that, that it's, this is all part of it. And you guys all have to be on board, or it's gonna be a really tough ride. I think it's very consistent with the advice you gave at the start of this. You, you're basically saying I'm gonna put up this yield sign here. I'm not gonna put the stop sign up, but I want you to stop. I want you to think and listen a little bit. This is how our program works. If this is uncomfortable for you, go it's probably a good sign to go look somewhere else. Absolutely. This is what we expect. Don't come here. So when you set that precedent from day one I think it sends a little scare down the parents. That. Okay. I'm no longer, coaches are recruiting me. He's recruiting my son, and I have to make sure I'm allowing that independence and then that relationship to happen. Hopefully, I think the one thing I, you're right, that's the whole point. Like we're literally drawing lines in the sand saying, Hey, if this isn't something that you can deal with, this ain't the place, don't do it. And that's every bit as good a decision to say no as it is to say yes. Like we think he can do it on the field. That's part of it. The other part of it is all these other things that we're drawing the line in the sand over, but I, I, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, so I have a son that's 16 and a daughter, that's 18. But but I know I'm, I'm a father and I it's sometimes difficult to separate coach, dad some things. But I know parents nod their heads on recruiting trips and I can see it, and all of the things, the lines in the sand that we're drawing. In their mind, they're saying, that won't happen with us. That won't happen with us, not my son. That won't be a problem. No shot. And like you said, it's a yield sign. Yeah. It's a caution sign. And ultimately it's truth and transparency in how we operate. And it's, it allows me to say, Hey, listen, do you remember when we recruited you, we told you that this was. Not only a possibility, but a likelihood. Don't use that as something like you didn't ever know this was gonna happen, and this is typically, ultimately playing time. It's playing time and how hard it is every day. Whether it's mentally, physically, or a combination of the two. So like some of this is Hey, remember when we had this discussion? This is what we meant and it was real and. Part of this is me saying we're doing what we told you were gonna do. And the other part of me is reminding you, you nodded your head in agreement and said yes. Yes. Hopefully that helps and hopefully we take care of some stuff on the front end and Yeah. But nothing if we had a perfect system or if you have a perfect system, though, i'm all ears. Let me hear it. I don't think there is one, but I think whatever you're doing is pretty close to it. I, I go back to my first couple years as a head college coach and I remember a family would be in my office and mom would have her notebook out, or dad would have a list, or the kid would have a list of questions and I would spend most of the conversation answering those questions. I think as the years went on as a head coach. I'd go, I'd be, I'd talk and I'd be done, and I'd go, do you have any questions for me? And the parents would look down and their notebook and go, Nope, you answered all of'em. Yeah. I learned how to be proactive. Yeah. To save time, but also to make sure, Hey, you may have a lot of questions, but let's set some ground rules first. Let's make sure you understand what you're getting yourself into if you decide to come here. Yeah, for sure. That's smart. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna do that. And certainly I hope we communicate well enough. I think communication is one of the foundations of our program. And I'm, as it's pretty easy to see, like I, I'm a talker and I, it takes, I'm a slow processor, but I'll talk long enough hopefully to figure out where I need to go. And that so that's for me, the recruiting process is that, and just like you said, I try to. Not that I'm necessarily trying to knock things off of their lists but I am trying to make sure that they understand our values and what our priorities are and if we can do that, like you said, proactively, then a lot of times, like the end of the conversation is, no, you answered everything. We can go from there. Yeah. I love it. All right, coach, I wanna transition to your program.'cause you've built just an amazing program and it's and you're doing it year in and year out. My word is significance. And I tell kids, and when I speak at high schools, I tell the audience, I want you to replace the word success with significance.'cause anybody can step into that batter's box and accidentally throw the bat out there and hit a ball. Okay. And maybe it'll go for a hit. Maybe it'll be an out, but anybody can get in that battered box and have some success and be lucky. So the idea of significance is we wanna remove mere chance from the equation. So how we practice, how, what our bat path is, how much reps we put in and how we practice, things like that. You've led one of the most consistently successful programs in division two baseball. What does that sustainability look like behind the scenes? How do you feel like you've been able to win almost 40 games every year for so long? That's so hard. There's coaches that would cut off a finger just to have one 40 year se, 40 win season and make it to the national tournament. What does that look like for you? I, yeah it's reps and deadlines and values and priorities. And we don't talk about wins. We don't talk about, any really any of those things we talk about, like trying to build and grow the best version of the people that are in front of us in our locker room. And it's in there's intentionality, I think and difficulty that's inserted into practices. And we, as a coaching staff, we really enjoy practice. We really enjoy the I hate to use the word grind, but like the day to day. Yeah. Every, repetition at a, at an intentional rate of speed that will challenge our players, what we hope to be as much or more than the game. And, we are trying to do that at the same time as we're trying to grow and, teach, the values that we really care about, routines, communication. Being disciplined in every aspect of life, not just on the field, but in the weight room, in the classroom, off the field being relentless in their pursuit of the best versions of themselves being selfless, which I think is a really difficult bridge to cross as we just got done talking about recruiting. But but it's necessary. And I think that's when you really start to see people reveal the best versions of themselves when they can really start to think about serving other people. I. And, and I, the la like the last version of that I think manifests itself as love or chemistry or culture, if you want to use those words synonymously. And those are things that matter to this group. And so we try to teach with those values in mind. Every day we try to coach with those values in mind. Those things are dis they're difficult, that it's hard to be disciplined, it's hard. There's. It's a difficult ask. That's, I don't know, if you're just taking a four year career that's, 1500 days of discipline that we're demanding that you have it's a hard ask. Yeah. And for us, like the easy parts, the game, go play the game. But that's right. Practicing the discipline side of it every other day is tough. And doing it to relentlessly pursue the best of yourself is a hard thing to do. That's a hard, and that's what we ask them to do, and that's what we try to. Try to create through our practices. So we try to make our practices hard. We try to develop practice routines that are that routine, but that are difficult. That will always challenge the skill of the player. And then we try to allow them to have success without, like you said, having to rely on the result of the hit or the strikeout. So like we really try to identify things that guys can do through things that they can control, their effort, their attitude, and and enjoy success without having to rely on the hardest thing to do in sports. And so that's, so for practices, for us, it's to challenge them every day. Challenge their conditioning, challenge their strength, challenge their mentality. Challenge their toughness. Challenge their skill. And, maybe shift the dynamic of what they feel like failure looks like and feels like. Learn how to handle it early, learn and learn how to move yourself past what you thought failure was and into what we as a team define it, define success as and and find your role, in that. And there's, we try to really communicate the value of everybody having a role because there is, and there's a million cliches that I think advance that thought process, but. Ultimately, every single guy has a role on this team. And you may not love what that role is, but it's important. And you gotta find a way, to be great at it. We practice that every day, or we try to practice that every day. Try to communicate that every day. We try to make it harder, and then instill some competitive version of baseball in every practice that we can. It's it is significant in how you go about your business, and I love that you say you, you and your staff love the grind. And I, and this is the best part about not coach anymore, I get to be outside of the fences and look in and really evaluate where, when I was in the heart of it, you're doing your thing you're grinding every day. And sometimes you don't get that opportunity to step back and take a look at what you're doing and breathe from, 30,000 feet. Do you think the love of the grind comes from that repetition and then that day where the light bulb goes off for that kid, all of a sudden they get it? Or all of a sudden for them, or you get to see that and then that light bulb becomes ownership? It's not. It's not what coaches teach'em anymore. I figured it out. This is mine. And don't you need the grind to get there, to get to that ownership? I believe so. Listen, like part of the love of the grind for me is I had no other choice. I'm not a great player. I'm not a talented person. I failed, way more than, and I wasn't good enough to play here. I can tell you that. You and me. So for me, part of it's personal. It's the things that like, that I didn't do that I didn't know that I wasn't good at, that I want to help people be better at maybe seeing a little bit of myself and everyone, but for them, yeah. The goal is to achieve the best versions of themselves and for them to take ownership of it. And our best teams always are teams that are player led based on, based on what they have become. And I can go, like I. I'm terrible at like memory types of things, but I could rip off 30 names of guys that that all played different roles on teams that were just hugely impactful to our teams for what they understood what they did on a day-to-day basis, how they acted, what they said and truly wrapping their arms, like you said, around what they were and owning what they were, and being awesome at it. And loving doing it and loving doing it, to me to serve the greater good of the team and the group of people that they loved in the locker room. And I also think that reduces some of the stress of the game and creates some more joy in it. This game is similar to life and it has no problem kicking you in the teeth every single day if you've let it. But if you can. If you can take joy in serving other people and finding yourself and doing that, I think you really allow your talents to, to shine through. You reduce some of the stress instead of having to punch a dude out, like you get to do it for the other guys everywhere. Instead of having to get a hit you get to, make hard contact somewhere. It just, it changes a lot of things for kids and I do think they enjoy it more, but I think that's a. I it's a long bridge. I don't know. It's a, it's for everybody. It's a difficult bridge to cross. I. I'm with you there, and I totally get that.'cause I was a grinder. I, I didn't have the size. I, I had small hands and short arms as a basketball player, and my high school didn't have a baseball team, so I had to play Po Pony and Colt Legion, and wherever I could play, I had to play, and nobody wanted to catch. So I caught and learned how to be a great catcher because I could keep my eyes open on a fastball and I could take a fast, I could take a foul ball off my face and my arm and my chest, and I wanted more of it, but it was all because of the grind. Yeah, it was all because I loved it and I wanted it every day, so I very much appreciate that. Yeah. I wanna talk about leadership with you, coach. I'm, I could talk to you all day about leadership and how you see the game and how you see teaching and coaching. It just, it gets me excited, this is why you hearing you talk is why I got into it 25, 30 years ago. When you think about. When you went to Central Missouri you coached a lot of different places and had a great career before that. When you think about Central Missouri what has it taught you about leadership and who you are as a leader that maybe you didn't understand earlier in your career? Ah, man, that's a really good question. This place is so unique. It's taught me an enormous amount. It took, it really clarified values for me that my values off the field, values on the field with what my goals were for the players that walked through the doors here. It opened up an opportunity to spend, an entire career with players here, the, college career, the four year career versus the junior college career. And I. It, it did it really clarified to me that it, and it forced it, first of all, how difficult it is playing from the front. This program has been, I. Unreal. Good for 60 years, since 1970. Yeah. And so it, man, it's not me. I didn't build this there, like Bob Tompkins built this, like Whitey did it. Stu Rogers did it. Brad Hill did it. Darren Hendrickson did it. Tommy Myers did it. Like I'm getting to stand on the shoulders of a bunch of giants and and. I will tell you, I think that's horrible. I think that's more difficult. It really challenged me because there's, everybody puts pressure on themselves and then when you come to a place that's supposed to be what it's been for the last however long, you gotta maintain that. And I really had to take a step back and go, okay but how do I do that? And I can't do it like they did. I have to do it in a way that's genuine to me. So it forced me to have those conversations with myself, with my wife. She's really intuitive about things. She helps an enormous amount and, we all know that wives are massive supporters and they have to be this, but she's a big part of, a great perspective and thought process. We had to sit down and talk about what was valuable to us. If everything goes wrong and you know nothing right? Happens on the field and the scoreboard is never in our favor, and we go, oh, one 50, can we go to sleep at night doing what we did? And, it forces you to define what those things are and who you're gonna do it with and how you're gonna do it. And so it really clarified some things.'Cause the first 10 years of my coaching career at Hutch, it was just, I don't even know if I thought about any of those things. It was just like, just, we just gotta go. We gotta go. That's right. We gotta go. We gotta go. We gotta go. We gotta go. And then, you get to this place and, feel a little bit of that weight for me. In an honest moment. It was like, okay, if it ain't that easy, it's not just gonna happen. You have to do something that's genuine, to you and that you can go to sleep with every night knowing that the results don't all, they're not promised to you. And so that's what we that's what this place did for me is it allowed me to feel good about what we were gonna do with our players, regardless of what the scoreboard said. Do you find. What your wife does for you, you're having to do for your players, and how do you go about doing that? How do you get them if you've had a tough loss or you're having a bad stretch or a guy's not hitting the ball or pitching the way he wants to, how do you go about getting them to take a step back and look at the big picture and go, man, you gotta, you got a uniform on, you're playing division two college baseball, you're playing against some of the best players in the country, and you got this family around you. How do you get them? To come back to earth with that. I think it's individual with every guy. I think that's where relationships are so unique and so special in this business. And probably the reason why I get to do it is'cause I get to hang around people that I, really have a lot in common with and that I love to be around and I just, I don't want to be in another environment. So I think, there's introverts, there's extroverts, there's guys that are always thinking about the next thing versus guys that are just, they're living in the moment so much that they can't get outta their own way. I think again, like you said, my, my wife does a fantastic job of seeing things through for me, but then from, as you mentioned, like a 30,000 foot perspective too. So I take a lot of cues from her. She's an empath. She really understands people. She feels and sees things that I just would never imagine, and she's accurate more than I care to admit. I have that problem at my house too, so yeah, she's lied a lot. And then I have I, I'm very lucky to have worked with the coaching staff with Coach Backus for the last eight or nine years, I think. And he's he's my work wife if you wanna say we have a pretty good feel for how to do things and and so like I've been really blessed to have really good guys along the way and we can I don't wanna say tag team, but we can discuss. A lot of our discussions in the morning are about just what you said, like how guys are playing slash acting slash feeling, and how we can bring about a better result, holistically for them. To be honest, like I said, my, my default to everything is we'll just work more, we'll just go back to work.'cause you can always believe in that. You can always count on that. You can always be confident in it. And we'll do as much extra as we need to do until you feel right. Whoever you is. Yeah. And so that's my default. There are other conversations I think that are had, like you said, to try to maybe relieve some pressure that they're, putting on themselves unduly. And there's, these guys have lives outside of baseball and there's times when those things affect what they're doing. And just being someone that they can speak to about those things is really important. This is a safe place and we do believe in communication and we value these human beings beyond just what they do in, on the field. And, I, I wanna know if something's happening and sometimes they're carrying something with them that they need to get off their shoulders and, we want to be able to make sure that we remind them that we're here for them to do that as well. And it could be a school thing, it could be a family thing, it could be a girlfriend thing, it could be a money thing. I don't know. But we wanna try to do the best that we can to be to open the doors, but encourage them to speak if they need to. Yeah, and we've had some guy, like those are, those are not easy conversations for 18 to 22 year olds to have. But we wanna encourage'em to have'em and know that we value them beyond what the baseball. Production is out on the field and and that they can and I think that's where relationships get built. And I think that's where trust gets built. And those are the things that I think last forever, which is why we're in this. Yeah. In any way. It's so tough with that age group. Heck it's still tough with me in my fifties, it's getting kids to understand it's not the end of the world. It's okay not to be okay. And do you find coach. What's the ratio of you seeing a kid's not right? You? There's something changed in their motion. In their motion and their character. They're just quiet. When they're usually not quiet. Do you find it's, you go, you or your staff going to them going, Hey, you okay? Or do you find that it's, they're coming to your office so they're grabbing you after practice? Say, coach, I need talk. You got a few minutes. I think most of the time it's mean. Bye. I don't know how to define leadership necessarily, but I think it's our job, to do that. Yeah. We see something. I think we, our job is to tell them we see something and they're, maybe they're not aware of it, maybe nothing's wrong. Yeah. But I, we're pretty active about it. If we see something different or if they're acting different, we're around these guys every single day. I'm around these guys more than I'm around my family. Yeah. If we see something, we again, most of the time, we try to be proactive with conversations and communication. I'll just ask Hey, what's going on? What's happening is something, is something under, underneath this that's bothering you. And again, like most of the time, kids will answer no. Then I think that opens the door for them to come in later after practice when there's not everybody in the dugout or whatever. Say Hey, you asked, I didn't want to talk about it, but I do now. Yeah. So I think it needs to be proactive or it is from the coaching staff. More often than not, I think very rarely our, I'll tell you what, our seniors, the guys that have been here the longest are the ones most comfortable having those conversations. Yeah. And they'll, and that always the truth. Yeah. Yeah. They'll walk right into the office, one of, one of our two offices and. And sit down'cause they're welcome to, to just hang out or do whatever and and then start talking. And that's, again that's, that, that's when we're really doing good things, right? That's when we feel like, we're doing it right for them and for the program. And I'm glad that they're, they feel confident enough to do that, but most of the time I think we have to start the conversation. Yeah. Thank you so much for that coach. That's. I want the podcast to be, and it's what I want families and kids to hear. This is what you should want. You should want a coach that loves you and believes in you. And yeah, they're gonna win a lot of baseball games, but there's, I. There's that space between childhood and adulthood that you get to be with somebody for four years that's really gonna help you learn how to jump into that adult world. And you guys just sound like you do it so well and you care about doing it so well, man, I don't know how well we do it, but we do care about the kids here and it's not always, so here's the other side of it, right? This is like a recruiting talk. It's not always nice. This age isn't nice. Yes. This life isn't nice And our guys need to learn how to deal with that. Yes. Because they're gonna go into life when they leave here and they're gonna get a wife and they're gonna get a job with a boss they don't like, and they're gonna have a kid and they're not gonna have sleep. And there's gonna be a bunch of things that go on and they better learn how to deal with those things. Better than anybody else. That's what the goal is. Yes. And not walk away from it. Not, not be, a poor default version of themselves but a version that's strong enough to stand up to whatever it is and handle it the right way. And, sometimes that doesn't feel good, yeah. Sometimes. Sometimes that's being told you are not doing it right here. And that doesn't always feel good. And so there's that too. But I think again, like I wouldn't tell you if I didn't care about you and I wouldn't tell you if I didn't think it applied to this and everything else we were doing. And I hope we do a good job. I really believe in what we do. But I'm super biased too. Yeah, you should be. Yeah. Yeah. And we talk about the, the loving and the caring and all that, but really where it starts is, can you take a kick in the butt? Yeah. Can you adapt and make changes? Because if nobody's kicking you in the butt, you're never gonna get from point A to point B. It's really e either that or your ga the game you're playing is too easy. Yes. So that's typically, I think that one of the. I think one of the biggest adjustments guys have to make when they get here, and it don't matter what level they come from, man, most of the time we get high school kids most of the time. I think our roster. I would call it unique at our level.'cause most of our rosters built from high school age kids that come on up and play. We get a junior college guy every now and again and a transfer from somewhere else too. And it doesn't matter where they come from, there's a good chance they're gonna fail when they get here. Yeah. They're not gonna be the best player on the field, I can guarantee that. And their response to those things are, that's like you said, you're gonna have to learn how to handle that. And you're gonna have to learn how to be humbled wherever you're coming from and know, like this may be the first time you failed. And and how you deal with that is probably gonna dictate a lot about how this at least first year is gonna go. But more than likely the rest of your career. So that's also a part of it. I'm with you, coach. 100%. I've got a strange question for you and you may not have a good answer and that's okay.'cause it's a little out there and I'm gonna you'll probably call me tomorrow and go, Matt, I wish I would've said this.'cause it's this type of question. I told you I'm a slow processor. I am too. I am too. So I hate to do this to you. When you think about your program, what part of your program do you believe wouldn't make sense to an outsider, but is absolutely essential to what you do? If somebody saw your practices or a drill or what you do as a team, is there something that may not make sense to a parent or a high school? I wouldn't even say a high school coach'cause they usually get it, but is there something that just wouldn't make sense to somebody that wasn't in there every day? Probably there's probably almost all of our practices. Are designed to be really difficult. But I, if I were gonna I can, I can't separate I'm gonna pick two things. Our conditioning and then our game day pre-game batting practice for everybody to see are things that I think most people that know the game, that don't know the game, everybody looks at and goes, what are they doing? And why? And I've had it argue with me. Not argued, discussed whatever. People, they don't, they're not really asking why, like, why do you do that? I want to do that. They're asking like, Hey, why do you do that? That doesn't jive, that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's right. But so be it. But I, I believe in what they are. I think our coaching staff, and we try to change things up every year, but I think our coaching staff believes in certain things. And our conditioning segment in the fall is. Different. And and then our VP before games is different too, I think. Yeah. It's amazing that and I've told you this. I've been talking to all these great coaches. You're one of'em. I feel like I've talked to the Mount Rushmore of division two coaches this week, and I put you right there. How, when you, I'll say it. You don't have to say it, I'll say it, but for me it's amazing how many of you talk about conditioning. How important that is to your program and because you don't, I don't think an outsider would understand that. They watch a baseball game and go, my wife says it's so slow, and I go, oh, these guys are amazing athletes and they're in amazing shape. Do is that a cornerstone for you? The conditioning is, yeah, but it, it's not necessarily the c the carryover of the actual physical. Trait from conditioning to the baseball field necessarily. And in a lot of regards, the people that ask me why we do it are making good points. It makes it harder to perform. Like when we're doing'em, we're doing it to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. Yeah. So if anybody, it's, it is. And it's about developing trust and finding who you want in your foxhole with you and who's gonna do what's required, even though it ain't pleasant. And who's willing to take on an extra load if somebody else is struggling. And conditioning speaks to a lot of what I think what the guys in the locker room need. And they know it sucks, but they also know they need it. And they they want it. Even though they hate saying that the guys that you know that are back year to year, even people that know they're, look, they have to do it again. They are for it. They support it. But in the moment, it makes things tougher. It makes our on-ramping process longer. We, like physically, we beat'em up pretty good. So a bunch of guys are losing weight. We've gotta help'em gain weight. They gotta stay hydrated, they gotta go to class. They still gotta perform baseball activities on the back end. We're making life tougher on them. In a lot of ways, in a lot of those ways aren't really applicable directly from there to the field but in so many other ways when those guys in the locker room can all look around and say, yeah, I saw that guy do this, I experienced this with this guy. It makes it far easier for starting pitcher to give the ball to the guy coming outta the pen. Yeah, the guy outta the pen to throw the slider. Three, two, knowing that catcher's done what he's done. And, I think it, it brings'em all closer'cause they're all, sharing in the suffering. But I also think it all creates a different kind of trust level between them too. Yeah. Yeah. It's it and I think what outsiders don't understand when they come to a college practice like yours or like mine, like I, as a basketball coach, there were so many people that go, Matt, why? Why are you guys only shooting? Three or four free throws in practice and I go,'cause most of these kids are only gonna shoot three or four in a game, and I want everyone to be so pressurized. That when they get in the game, it doesn't matter if there's 10,000 people in the stadium screaming and yelling and there's one second on the clock and they gotta make a free throw. I want every free throw to feel like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I want them to know that they can overcome that anxiety and that fear. And a big part of that is being in great shape and having the lung capacity, whether you're a baseball player, a pitcher, or a basketball, it doesn't matter, is having that lung capacity be like, all right, I can mentally handle this. I'm not worn down. I can handle that. That last inning of pitching,'cause I got it. My arms got it, my, my lungs got it right. You can't do anything if you're not breathing. Yep. And there's a skill to finding your breath and slowing it down and, finding. Again, like when you start to accomplish, the conditioning, I'm sure for a lot of people, so I don't know that we're doing anything super different, but but whatever it is, it's tough and it's gonna challenge'em. And most of them have never done anything like it. And when they get through it, they've accomplished something that they never would've thought they could've accomplished before. And I think mentally that carries them over, as you said, over an anxiety hump or something else. But also I think it really allows them. If the direct carryover is this, it's like, Hey, if I could catch my, if I could push this sled when I felt like this, yeah. I guarantee you I can throw this pitch when I feel like this. So awesome. Yeah. Awesome, coach. I got some rapid fire fun ones for you. I've pushed you today and you've been great and yeah, I've thrown some crazy stuff at you. Are you up for some fun ones? Yeah. Come on. Anything. All right. If you're playing today, what's your walkup song? For me. Yeah. That's a really good one. It's gonna be Wolf and Man by Metallica. Oh yeah. Now we're talking, speak of my language. Favorite post-game meal, win or lose. Is there something you crave? I will not eat if we lose. And if we win. Oof. Pork chops. Pork chops. A good pork chop. Chop me too. More satisfying. A perfectly executed hit and run. Or picking off a runner at third o. I, a hit and run for me. That's, yeah. Sorry. No, I'm with you. If you weren't coaching baseball, what would you be doing? I've been asked that a lot. I don't have a great answer. It's a tough one for somebody that's so passionate about coaching. It's a tough one for me too. Yeah I think I probably, I would probably be in the military probably. Yeah. I tell people that all the time. I wish that's what I would've done. I wish I would've put more thought into that at 18. Me too. Because I saw my nephew do it, and I just saw how, what that did for him when he came out of that and the type of human being he is now, yeah. What he learned. So I'm with you there. A player or coach you'd most like to share a dugout with? Past or present? I'm, wow. I've been really blessed to share the dugout with some special people. And I, there are so many people that I look up to, I'll tell you this because it's recency bias. I think you brought'em up and I have heard some just incredible things. But Coach Brooks at Angelo I have heard some things just about his feel for seeing the game. Yeah. And his ability to predict what's gonna happen before it happens. I would be fascinated to be in the dugout with him. I have an enormous amount of respect for him, enormous amount of respect for Coach Urso too. I have no idea how he does what he does, but man, it's hard to play against and it's it's fun to watch. But yeah I've heard some things about Coach Brooks all good, that are, that almost other worldly that I think I would, that I would really like to, I'd really like to be a part of and see. I just spent about an hour and a half with him. So I see so many similarities in you two and how you see the game and what I love about both of you is you just simplify it. You're able to take something that's really complicated and see the nucleus of it very clearly. And I, I think that's what makes a great coach when you can take big ideas and say this is really the key to that. This is how we get to that big idea. So I'm with you there. Coach, thank you so much. I'm excited to do a recruiting segment with you, but thank you so much for doing this and thanks for being who you are and caring so much about these kids and doing it right, even though we're both couple old men yelling at cars to slow down. We're trying to keep the heart of why we coach and why we play the game. As the centerpiece for these kids. So it means a lot to me. I appreciate, the invite on. I am as I guess really talky. So I'm happy to do this. It's the first one I've ever done. I really enjoy it. So I, and I can go on forever. So I really appreciate the opportunity to speak and thank you very much. You got some big games coming up and just know we'll be cheering for you. You've got a big fan in me and if there's anything I can ever do for you and the boys in the program or your family, don't hesitate to call. I appreciate that offer. Thank you so much. It means a lot. That's a wrap on today's conversation with Coach Kyle Crooks for managing a nationally elite roster to identifying recruits who truly fit the mules baseball culture. Coach reminded us that great programs aren't built overnight. They're built on consistency, clarity, and connection. If this episode added value for you, don't forget to subscribe, rate and share the podcast and head over to coach matt rogers.com to sign up for the weekly newsletter where I share tools, strategy, and perspective to help you lead and recruit with significance. And be sure to check out the new recruiting journals, dropping this summer. Designed as companion tools to my five star rated book significant recruiting, the playbook for prospective college athletes, these sports specific guides will help athletes stay focused, document their journey, and prepare for college conversations that matter. Hey, thanks for listening, and remember, significance is greater than success. See you next time.