Episode #85: Paul Svagdis on Recruiting

What College Coaches Are Really Looking For – A Recruiting Talk with Paul Svagdis of Westmont College

In this week’s Significant Recruiting episode, Matt Rogers is joined by Westmont College Head Baseball Coach Paul Svagdis, a veteran leader with over 850 career wins and nearly 30 years of experience across NCAA Division III, NAIA, and now Division II.

Coach Svagdis breaks down exactly what he looks for in a recruit—from mindset and resilience to how a player responds to adversity. He shares why Stephen Vogt, now the manager of the Cleveland Guardians, stands as a prime example of the kind of athlete he wants in his program.

You’ll also hear advice on how to stand out in the recruiting process, how coaches evaluate character, and the importance of humility, consistency, and leadership potential.

🎯 Whether you're a student-athlete, parent, or coach, this episode is packed with practical insight to help guide your recruiting journey.

📚 Ready to take control of your college recruitment?

 Visit CoachMattRogers.com to get your copy of Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes and the new Recruit’s Journal—your week-by-week guide to staying organized, confident, and college-ready.

Transcript

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someone said to me, how did you guys get over the hump and get good? How did you get players to come? I said, I sat over and I looked at'em on the other side of the desk. I said, I can guarantee you, based on the skillset I have in this program, you will play right away. And you and I, are gonna build this program and do something no one's ever done here. Welcome to significant Recruiting, the podcast that helps student athletes and families take control of the college recruiting journey. Today's guest is Paul Spades head baseball coach at Westmont College, who brings nearly 30 years of experience, over 850 career wins, and a proven track record of developing elite athletes on and off the field. In this episode, we dig in exactly what Coach Faggy looks for in a recruit and why if a kid has quick hands. He believes he can turn them into a ballplayer. Now he's from Boston, so if you're from the Boston area it's not gonna hurt if you're from Boston, let's put it that way. Whether you're just starting your recruitment or navigating decision time, this episode is full of valuable insight. And before we dive in, don't forget to subscribe and check out all my tools, books, and free resources@coachmattrogers.com. Alright, let's get started. Here's my recruiting conversation with Coach Paul. All right, coach, let's, let's jump into some recruiting talk. You've been doing this a long time, so I'm sure you have a system in place. I'm seeing the board behind you a little bit. I'm sure you got some recruiting stuff back there. Talk about your structure of recruiting. And how you use your staff and how you guys meet and how you discuss who you're going to recruit and why you're going to recruit. Yeah. So that's evolved through the years, of course. With access to social media the, the access of the club environment or personal coaches tread driveline. All those places have had a really positive impact on the recruiting process in a lot of ways, but also allow and I also think allow you to really, like strategically go look at kids that have specific skill sets that you might be interested in. Right. So the, the club and the travel ball have all come together and they understand that their business model is to help these kids get off to the next level. So they're providing as much informa a lot more information than we got 10, 15 years ago. Right, right. And especially data-driven information is huge with pitching in a lot of ways. So I think how we do it is we're, I'm in like this staff transition here at, uh, Westmont. So what, how I will do it moving forward is I. Depending on how many of, how much of my staff is back from last year, we talk about, okay, here's who we have coming back. How do we project them out to win a conference championship? That's obviously goal one. And you win in a conference championship, you go to the regional, and then we move on from there. And then the next step from there would be, okay, we know what it takes in some fashion to be a conference. Champion, but we want to be a regional champion, right? We need to get to carry North Carolina. What is the upgrades that we have to have? You know, is it, do we need a higher level caliber pitcher? Do we need more pop or thump? Do we need to be more of an athletic team? I don't want to chase my tail as a recruiting coach, like, oh, well we didn't run last year, so now we're gonna run this year. And then I'm constantly flipping my philosophy. That can be, now I'm just, every other year I'm doing something different. There's no continuity for the kids. Yeah, right. In terms of what you're trying to build in them stylistically. So I think that's where we start. What do we have returning? Can we project them out and then we start to fill in from there? I have a preference. It's a different world now with the portal, and I'm getting hammered right now with excellent looking baseball players that are in the portal and want to transfer. And I, I signed 20 high school kids this year from Wow. Yeah. Oh, well we had, we had a senior class of 16 to 17 guys, so I. You have to replace those guys in a lot of fashion. Yeah. And so I thought being a new coach, I might lose some guys in the transfer portal'cause they might have not been happy with their playing time or whatever. And we haven't lost any, we haven't lost any. So they had a great experience. They have great teammates. We've lost a couple guys, but they were, it was less of, I think, the playing time issue and more of just the right fit here. Right. At a place where you're paying, you're financing most of your education as an athlete in a lot of ways, so did you help those kids with that transition or did they come to you and say, I'm, this is what I'm gonna make? They came to me. Okay. They came to me and so I, you know. I think, this is the world we live in. I have some coaches that have talked to me about like the portal. If you have an athlete that wants to go on the portal, I'm like, it's, there's no use fighting it now in my mind. Yeah. You gotta be in the guy's corner and do the best you can to sell'em on yr culture and this situation's gonna be better for you, I think. Over the next couple years, we'll see whether that culture allows us to keep more talent. Yeah. So I, I think that's, that's gonna be an interesting one, but we What do you like? Go ahead. Go ahead, coach. No, you go. You go. What do you like to carry? Oh. Well, I like to carry 38 to 40 guys, and I'm in the 50, I'm in the 50 range. Okay. But we, that we were 54 guys last year. And because we didn't have any real guys going the portal and I brought in the same amount of seniors we're at that we're at that we need to figure out I, I would like to right size without cutting kids. Yeah. I'm with you. All right. So you are where you are with post COVID, big class graduates. Yeah. Bring, bringing in a bunch of high school kids. You have to do what you have to do, you injuries, class time. There's so many things that you have to have a big roster to, to get you through a long season, especially when you're playing 50 plus games. Yeah. And you need, and you need arms. Yep. And I'm assuming you're a 50 50, 50 guy. Half pitchers, half utility. Yep. Yep. Exactly. Carry three catchers, sometimes four. Probably four. Yeah. Okay. Yep. How do we keep, maybe this is the wrong question, may, let me rephrase it. How do we make sure 20 guys, 18 year olds are coming into the program? They're developing, they're understanding the culture, they're understanding what can be here long-term, if they're committed. To being here for four years and, and growing with us coaches and growing with the staff. How do we create that? Yeah. So I think it starts I think I inherited that culture here where the play, the player, the culture of the seniors is incredible here, and that leadership like gets filtered and being a part of the Westmont program is something that these kids really, really enjoy. They're treated well. They treat each other well. And so there that. Kind of colloquial, we're a family mentality. These kids literally love being a part of the Westmont program because of how they treat each other. So I think you have to have great leadership with your upperclassmen that they're taking the younger kids under their belt and letting them know, Hey guys, I was there. I was a part of the national Championship team in 23 or 24, whenever that was. I think it was 23 and I got 25 at bats that year. The following year, I became a starter and I was an All American. Yeah, right. Yeah. And so, so the younger kids can see like a history of incredible, physically talented kids that had to work their way into the system. Yeah. So that there's that, and you need the right players emotionally that can filter that into the younger kids. And then I think from a practice standpoint we scrimmage a lot. I tell the kids, even when we have all these guys, you are going to play baseball here and we're going to, you're gonna get your app bats. It might not be against Point Loma and Cal Poly Pomona, but every week you're gonna get four to eight app bats. As a guy that's not starting at a minimum, we scrim three days a week right now with, because we have the talent to do it. And so, and then what I'll make sure I do is even though I think those scrimmages help our frontline guys see more pitching consistently,'cause the way they set us up here is we play Friday, Saturday, and then we're off basically in practicing. Baseball's meant to be played consistently. I think see, consistently, I'm constantly feeding positive feedback into our backups. We won this weekend because we crammed. Wednesday, Thursday and you came out and tried to compete and we put the scoreboard on and then there's also moments where pitchers, right, we'll have pitchers that aren't seeing the field. Aren't seeing the field. And it'll be like a Wednesday and I'll be like, Hey, I have this one young man in particular as a freshman attached. I'm like all the teams together. I'm like, you just stacked another day kid. Like that was a great performance and it was against awesome. Varsity kids that are winning a lot of baseball games. And then what would happen is there would be a moment where I had an opportunity to get T in a game, but he earned that opportunity. Does that make sense? Yes. And he gets in the game and he succeeds and all the guys see it. And then on Monday I'm like, Hey guys, do you remember? It was like, it just didn't happen.'cause tach stacked one day, he stacked a month of pitching performances through the month of February. Where he never got on the field and an opportunity presented itself and that kid was prepared and then love it. All of a sudden now attach becomes a bullpen guy for us. So I think you have to create opportunities for them to be able to not just throw bullpens, throw against great hitters. And they'll, then it makes my job easier. If they're getting smashed or they're walking guys, we can just have a good conversation, Hey, let's look at our, let's look at the numbers. Here's where you need to get to. And they're smart enough kids to get that. But I think if I'm just throwing BP every day and they're just throwing bullpens, they can't see maybe what the coach sees in their bullpen performance. So they're, they're batting, everybody hits batting practice well. Yeah. How are we doing when we're facing 90 to 91? Yeah. I think that's how I've tried to strategize, to keep the energy level of the backups in the mix, right? Where we can then watch video. We have the six camera video system here and love it. We're coaching'em up. And then, uh, the last thing I'll say on this,'cause I, I do, I had a young man that was a senior that I played in one game. Okay. One game this year. I decided to bring him to the regional with us'cause he was a senior and we're taking BP on the day before the regional. And I know and he knows there's no way I'm putting him in the game this weekend. And I was still coaching his BP up. Not in a hard way, like you're not performing, but it w there was a lot of knocks with, Hey man, do you see how you stayed inside that ball? Well, could you feel it off the bat? Because I tell them, I'm psychologically committing to your development until you're no longer wearing one of our uniforms. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I was able to pat him on the back end. His game day was BP in the regional. Yeah. You know, or infield, outfield, you know? Yeah. So you just have to work harder to keep them more engaged. I'm gonna speak to the parents, the moms and dads and the high school coaches listening to this.'cause it's so valuable.'cause I, I deal so much with recruiting now. I'm helping so many kids get to college and I, I'm telling them, you have to listen. You. It's not just about, Hey coach, do you like me? And I like you? You have to listen. There's so many great coaches in the country, but there's so few that are constantly teaching. Like you, you got 50 plus kids and I bet there's not a kid that walks off your field after any practice that didn't say. Coach. Coach didn't make any comments to me. Coach didn't make any contact with me. It's energy. If you're a coach, it doesn't matter if you're 55. It doesn't matter if you're 25. You have to give that energy to your kids. And they have to know that you're caring about them every single day or it's real easy to go the coach, forget about me, am I not a part of this? Yeah. And that, that becomes a cancer for three other kids that aren't playing with. Absolutely. 100%. And, and going back to us failing as younger coaches. Yeah. I failed at that consistently in my career, you know? Yeah. So all the players, if I had any of my players, from 20 years ago. Or even 10 years ago saying, Hey, who, what's Fag is talking about? He never engaged with me on that level. I'm like, yeah, I learned from that failure. Yeah. My job I take, that was wrong of me not to engage with you. If you have a uniform on, and I'm telling you that's important, I gotta engage with you. Yeah. Does that make sense? And the, and there's always that kid that's having a really bad day that's just not engaged. You know, they're not talking, they're not, they're their head's down. They're, you know, they're going through the motions. And it's our responsibility as coaches to go, what's up with you? What, where's the eye contact today? Right? What's going on? I'm fine coach. No, you're not Fine. We don't have to talk to about it right now, but you're not going to bed and I'm not going to bed until we talk about it, right? Yep yep. It's absolutely, it's, it's a part of who we are as coaches, and if we're not playing that role, we're failing the kids. So I love that about you and I love the energy and your commitment to that because I had a, one of my kids called me last night, she called in tears. They had a high school practice. Not one coach talked to her. The coach. Yeah. Brought every kid to an individual meeting and Hey, come with me. And I'm just like, I wanna strangle that coach. Yeah. You're giving that kid nothing. You're giving him one, one avenue to walk out that door and it's not a good one. Even if I chewed on your butt today and'cause you didn't work hard or you didn't run out of a popup, it's'cause I cared about you and you know it, you know, I I didn't give up on you. Right. Yes. Yep. I love that. Yeah. All right. Talk to me about your recruiting board. You guys have your systems in place. You know what you need, you know what you need for next year in two years. What does that recruiting board look like? When you look at your 20 sixes, do you got a hundred kids? Do you have a 200 kids? Do you have 30 at each position? You know, you gotta bring in? What does that look like? I feel like because our numbers are so big, and I brought in such a big class this year in general, it's gonna be a smaller pool of guys. Yeah, so, but in general, I would say like. Generally, if I'm thinking about a recruiting process and if I wanted to be, you asked what's my ideal number? I think I said like 38 athletes, right? Yeah. So that's, what's that like maybe nine, eight to 10 guys a year that I'm really sitting on. Yeah. In order to get to eight to 10, I'm probably at three guys, three to four top guys per positional group that I'm looking to recruit. So, you know, a lot of coaches do this in baseball and I've started to do it as of late. You're gonna recruit short stops'cause you can always move them to center field if they run well or third base or second base. Yep. Yep. You know, so those guys, you're gonna, you're gonna need multiple middle infielders that you like athletically. You always going back to, you asked how many catchers I would like a catcher in each class. Yeah, me too. So we're, we look at the board and we're like, okay, we might need two catchers this year. Does that make sense? Yeah. So then maybe one's a freshman, but one's a sophomore portal guy to create that gap between senior, junior, sophomore, freshman. We'd like to develop'em.'cause now with the portal, I have the luxury to say, Hey, I actually need a senior catcher. Maybe that's what we need to sit on this year in June or July and August. Does that make sense? Yeah. And then outfield, we'll probably, if I'm looking, I. For like a couple. It depends. If I'm looking for a center fielder, I think the speed component comes into it just like that eighties and nineties model. Yeah. Um, if it's a corner outfield, I'm looking for probably a, a little more of a thump guy. Yep. That I think can slug pretty well. So if I'm looking to bring in two of those corner outfielders, I'm probably jumping on about six of'em, that I narrow a pool down to six. Okay. Does that make sense? Would that, would, you guys might look at 50 to a hundred of those kids to get it down to that six? Yeah, I would probably say that. Yeah. I mean, I don't even know what the number is.'cause every day I'm looking right. Yeah. It never ends. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, and now you can look on Twitter, so everybody's throwing out their profile, right? Yeah. So I could go, Hey man, I'll let me watch his swing on video. And then I'm like, Ooh, I like that swing. Let me look at his numbers. Yeah. And going back to our process with my recruiting coordinator, I'll say, Hey, can you reach out to his coaches? Can you find out what his characters like? And if they like him and what have they seen? Yeah. And then, then it will come down to now we'll go watch them play. Now you wanna see'em live Uhhuh? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. At what point were you invite that kid and their parents to campus? If I, if we'll invite'em up to campus if I feel like they're a legitimate prospect for us. Okay. Is that a camp invite for you or is that We'll invite a visit first. We'll invite everybody to camps. We've, camps have been a great asset for us. Yeah.'cause there'll be kids at camp that show up at camp.'cause we have a mass database. Right, right. Because when I get off the, podcasts today, I'll, I'll look at my email. I have 15 emails from probably 15 good baseball players with video, and I kind of gotta pour through quickly and then I'll send'em a questionnaire. They're in our database, they're all gonna get invited to our event. The guys that show up to our event, and then their numbers are good. We're gonna jump on'em right away.'cause they showed an interest in our school. And I like them. So now we're, we almost got the hook in. We've almost set the hook. So those ID camps are huge. I think we've got well and incredible. And they're doing, they're doing so much of the work for you. You don't have to convince'em to look at your school. They're already excited about Westmont.'cause they're showing up. They're already excited about you. Right. And you get, they're coming to you to see, you get to see'em play, live and work with'em. Exactly. I love that. And you can manipulate the process. So if I go down to, I, I went down to modern day in the spring looking at a guy, and let's say he gets up maybe twice, maybe three times seven in a high school game. And he walks twice. He walks. Great. But I need to, I need to see him swing the bat. Yeah. And he is playing shortstop and he got one play and it, his routine. Yeah. Whoa. Like, man, I'd love to have you on campus and work you to a right. Work you to your left time, you in a 60, take bp so I see your hands, and then give you four live at bats against a pitcher. And when you walk, I go, Hey, stay up again. Yeah. So I see you swing. Yeah. So it's, it's such an advantage for us as coaches. I love that. Yeah. All right. I'm gonna speak to your, your heartstrings a little bit here. Sure. I'm a 16-year-old in Boston. Yeah. I'm 3000 miles away. Yep. You're probably not coming to see me play live. Correct. What do I gotta do to get your attention?'cause I wanna play at Westmont. I wanna play for you, but I'm 3000 miles away. Do I have to spend a grand to get to your camp and get a hotel room and get my dad there and mom there and rental car? No. Depending video's not ideal. But it's. I'll use this as an example. I, I saw a vote on three swings on a video baseball factory, and this was when we had the phones on our desk where you pick it up like this and dial and, and I, I saw three swings.'cause it was a baseball CD rom. Yeah. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. Hey man, have you been offered yet? And he's like, no. And I go, okay, I'm offering you a scholarship right now. And I talked to him about AUSA and his brother. Yeah, right there. Thanks. I was like, his, his hands looked lightning fast and, um. And then another guy Kirk Neen, who played seven years in the bigs and played for me at Azusa and took over for me. He's the head coach at a PU now, Kirk. We watched him on video. I was like, dang, I, that guy's got good ha that guy's got fast hands. So we said, Hey, come on. He's a Colorado kid. Come out and visit. He came out and visit, which is, he had to spend a little money on that. We first time in Southern California, it rained for three days. We couldn't get him outside. Oh. So I had to offer him based on the video. So two video guys. I offered both Big leaguers, so I'm like, maybe I'm okay on video. There was something there. Yeah, maybe I'm all right. Yeah, so, so I would say for the Boston Kid video, and then I'll probably come out and see you.'cause then it's, it's an excuse for me to go to Fenway Park and, uh, yeah. Visit my friends. But absolutely, I would say video if, if there's some, coaches, Rex Travel Ball. We try to go to as many events as we can. Some of these guys, the East Coast kids go down to Georgia a lot, right? Yeah. To East Bob and stuff. So what I would do, this is the nice part about being in a small world, if I'm not gonna go there,'cause it's not super beneficial for me to go to Georgia to think I'm gonna get a kid from the East Coast to Westmont. I'm gonna stay in Arizona, California for the most part. Yeah, you gotta control your budget. Yeah, exactly. But if a kid really loves us. Like, I have enough colleagues and friends that I've been coaching with through the years that will be there and probably be able to see that kid. So you're just, you are doing your own research as a coach because that young man loves the school. Absolutely. I. Absolutely real quick about film and if for any Boston kids that are out there, I love Boston guys, so send your Yeah, absolutely. Especially, especially if you're your Red Sox fan. Ruin Celtics. Pats quick thoughts on Raffi devs he's gonna do well with the Giants. I think it was a tough situation that probably wasn't handled well emotionally right out of the gate. Now that I have, you know, guys that have been up in the big league level and I've heard their stories about front office, and now I have someone in the front office or managerial, right? Yeah. You kind of go, man, maybe I better hold out judgment on how guys have handled these things. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yes. It just breaks my heart though, when I want a ball player. I want a guy that says, put me wherever you need me, coach you, me, a catch I've never caught before, but put the gear on. I'll, if we need a catcher, I'll catch right. Any and, and$300 million.$300 million go play first base. If you want to know my personal opinion based on being a Red Sox fan, I'm pissed at the front office that they didn't resign Mookie. Oh, yeah. The reason why they didn't resign Mookie is because they knew they had devs coming up and they were gonna pay for him. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, that's a big blunder because Mookie's one of the most well respected. People in the game of baseball and you passed up on giving him that max contract. Man, that's. That's bad, tough business. You know, I, I wasn't excited about that. There's, there's a, that's my Boston side. Yeah. There's a pretty good All-star team over the last seven years that have left Boston. Pitchers and, you know, you can get into the weeds there. 100%. Yeah. Well, so what's going on culturally? Exactly. Sorry to get off anybody that's listening, that's not a, major league baseball fan, but I wanted to have that conversation too. All right, coach, I, I'm gonna let you go. You've been great, but I, I want you to give one piece of advice to families that are going through the recruiting process. What do you want them to know that can make it healthy for them to get, help their son get to that next level, wherever that school may be? I, again, I do like, I, I would say put if you have the resources or you have to figure out how you're gonna spend your resources. Find the right, find matches at different levels.'cause we all wanna play division one baseball. I 100% on board with that. But find a school that matches a couple, division three, a couple ai, a couple D two, and then your D ones. Does that make sense? Yep. And put yourself in situations where those coaches at those institutions will be there. Yeah. As simple as that. So if that's coming to a camp, come to a camp. If that's doing a multi camp, if you're an academic guy, this is a super expensive camp but for kids that actually have the money to do it. But Show Ball is a big academic camp where all the Ivy League guys are. Yep. But that a lot of, I imagine the new MAT coaches go to those as well. They do, yeah. Yeah. And so like spread yourself out to these areas. Where those coaches are gonna be on the field. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. I think that's absolutely. And they get to interact with you personally. And, and, um, and then even like I told my son who played high school baseball, I'm like, Hey man, there's always gonna be a place for you to play baseball. Yep. Okay. But you have to decide is that spot location worth what you might be sacrificing in terms of your major. Your desire to be in a certain area of the country. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. And, um, playing time right away. Playing time right away, all those things. And, uh, I think finding the right institution is the right start. I don't wanna overwhelm you and I don't want you to have more on your plate than you guys already have. But if a kid just wants an evaluation,'cause they don't know where they belong, they don't know where they fit. Is your staff comfortable looking at a film for three minutes and going, Hey, this is where I see you. You're not a great fit for us, but you know, this is where I think you could play. Yeah. I always get nervous doing that'cause I feel like they're gonna end up in the league and then crushing us. I had a guy I, I had a guy at Pomona. I cut. This is why I stopped cutting. I, I, I kid you not, I cut and Oh, he didn't go play for bird? No, he went and played at Claremont McKenna. Oh, Roddy Cart Street. No. And and I totally, it was all me being a young coach and a man just idiot. Yep. And he goes, and sure enough he's playing against us and he's like in a three game set. He probably had 10 hits and, and I'm 25, 26 years old. And he'd bang his, his eighth hit and he'd point at me in the dugout like, Hey man, you let like all in my face. So here's what's great about life. Here's what's great about life. He's a great kid and he was probably a really good player and I was just 26 years old, made the wrong call, right? One of, one of my Pomona Pitzer kids is a lawyer now in LA and he goes, Hey, guess who I'm good friends with? And it was this young man. Okay. And I go, no way. And I'm like, and he had a Spanky story. Yeah. And I go, you gonna apologize for him? Okay. Apologize to him for me. Right. I'm like 50 now. I totally messed that up. Like, and he, he connected me with him via. Text. Right. And his son plays I, I think freshman baseball or he is got little kids and we're all gonna connect at some point and get together. That's great. But he's older now and he saw the bigger picture and he had a great experience at Claremont. But I have a hard time probably doing that because I think a kid, for me to say your division three player and not a D two player, I don't know if I can say that or not'cause there's plenty of guys playing for burns over burn. That could start for me. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And it, I think it's in baseball than more than any other sport. Right? I don't think a di I think 99% of the volleyball players that play division three, they couldn't even hold the a minute on the court for division one. That's right. Basketball, there's so few kids that play division three basketball that can play division two, let alone division one. But I think baseball, we're seeing more and more of it. Where there's just a, it's just about the evaluation of that, that coach, correct. Who was the kid? I don't follow division one, but my son was telling me the short stop from, uh, Arkansas. Yeah, right. Was he a Sac State kid? I, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So here's my question. He was just named the, like the Spikes Award winner. The best player in college baseball hit 20 something jacks. Okay. So Sac State was the only guy, the only coach that identified that kid. So that goes back to we miss and misidentify kids so much in the game of baseball. Yeah. And I think it would be hard for me to sit back and go, Hey, this would be a good spot for you. Find here. Here's the advice I would tell guys. Hey man, if find the school that fits your style of play. Yes. If you a burner and a hit for average guy like going back to you, you must know Scott Winterburn at Laverne. Yep. Yeah. Bene are close. Yeah. So they do an incredible, you can't strike'em out. They know how to hit the ball the other way. They know how to execute and they know how to play great baseball, great style of baseball. Yep. So if my son were not a six two plotter with his feet, but had good feet, could turn a double play and had back control, I'd be like, you need to go play for Scott Winterburn. Yeah. Because you're gonna win games and you're gonna be highly successful. Because of the style of play Coach Winterburn has with his athletes. Yeah. Incredible. And then I bet you Scott would say,'cause he said this about my Tufts team we had some guys hit some home runs in a series with them and they were, ranked in the top whatever, 10 in the country.'cause they're awesome. And he, he probably remembered my Azusa teams, which were like that. Yeah. And he'd be like, dang, you guys are aggressive. So at the plate. We're gonna swing and miss more than Scott's teams. Yeah. So I would say too, if you're like that athlete, go do your research. Find out what the laverne's look like, what the pomona's look like. Redlands.'cause we all coach similarly in some ways. In some ways we have different stylistic approaches. Yeah. And it's, for me, it's teaching kids. You gotta look everywhere. Yes. You know, just because this school has a name or this school has a reputation, man. It might be a brand new coach coming in and this guy's great and he's a great fit for you. So go look. You know, yes. Everybody's got a cafeteria, everybody's got dorm rooms, everybody's got a library. Find a coach, find an environment, find a culture that you fit and you're gonna grow there. 100%. And being, going back to Pomona eight and 32, they hadn't had winning three winning seasons in school history. Yeah. And I got there in 96. Yeah. So someone said to me, how did you guys get over the hump and get good? Like, how did you get players to come? I said, I, I, I sat over and I looked at'em on the other side of the desk. I said, I can guarantee you, based on the skillset I have in this program, you will play right away. And you and I, I. Are gonna build this program and do something no one's ever done here. Yep. And now if you are, if that if there's a kid on listening to this right now and goes, that fires me up. Find a program with a young coach that's trying to turn something around. Yeah. Because you can, because it's gonna be hard. Yeah. And you're gonna feel the daggers from former like players and current guys in the program. But if you want that experience, those guys still, we get together because they went from eight and 32 to 36 and seven. Yep. And they saw how hard it was to do that, and they attribute a lot of their success in their personal life now that they're 45 to the things they had to go through in that progress of turning a program around. Yep. So that's exciting stuff and there's plenty of great coaches out there that are doing great things with teams that, that need to turn things around. I think of Tyler Lato at Pepperdine, who I took over for. They're in this process of, he's trying to flip the script over there right now. What an exciting time if you were one of those guys. Absolutely. And they, they have an incredible history of course, but it'd be pretty cool to be a part of that run that Tyler's gonna bring there to put'em back where they used to be. Yeah. Too, too many kids go chasing a legacy instead of saying, I'm gonna go build one. Yeah, exactly. And that could resonate with someone on the listening coach. It's been a pleasure. Hope you don't mind if I call you a friend. I just love having Absolutely. Having you talk. And, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna send you a book and get your feedback on my recruiting book, but, uh Oh great. Just so you have one and but I wish you guys all the best of luck. Have a great summer and I'll look forward to future conversations. Sounds great. Thank you very much. A big thank you to Coach Paulus for joining me and offering such a clear look into how a championship caliber coach evaluates talent and builds programs that last. I love his humility and I love his dedication to doing it right and doing it his way. If you're a student athlete or parent trying to navigate the recruiting process, remember you don't need 100 schools. You need the right fit. And sometimes it starts with something as simple as quick hands and the right attitude. And don't forget to subscribe. See you never miss an episode, and head over to coach matt rogers.com to check out my books and to schedule a free college recruiting strategy session with me. Thanks for listening, And as always, remember, recruiting isn't about chasing offers. It's about pursuing significance. We'll see you next week where I have another great guest ready to help you with your coaching and recruiting needs. Have a great week.