Episode #117: Vinny Barber on Recruiting

📬 “Clarity Wins: A Recruit’s Playbook with Coach Vinny Barber” 🤼‍♂️🧭

 
In Part 2, Coach Vinny Barber—Head Men’s Wrestling Coach at the University of Lynchburg—gets practical about recruiting for high school athletes, parents, and coaches. Drawing from concrete examples in the conversation, Vinny shows what actually earns attention, builds trust, and moves you up a coach’s list—without the fluff.

You’ll hear:
 

• Communication that counts — how to reach out with purpose, follow up, and keep it concise
• Film that helps — what to include, what to skip, and the right length
• Social media that builds trust — what coaches notice (and what raises red flags)
• Academics as a separator — transcripts, test plans, and reliability over talk
• Reading “fit” — culture cues on visits, body language in the room, honest self-assessment
• Timelines & first-roster realities — how Lynchburg is building toward ODAC 2026–27 and what that means for recruits and families

 
Learn more about Coach Barber: https://lynchburgsports.com/staff-directory/vinny-barber/363

Connect with all things Significant Coaching & Recruiting—podcasts, weekly blogs, Significant Recruiting books, Launchpad classes, and speaking: coachmattrogers.com
 

Transcript

0:11

Welcome back to The Significant Coaching Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Rogers. Today is part two with Coach Vinny Barber head men's wrestling coach at the University of Lynchburg, and we're keeping this basic and universal for every listener. So don't think that you have to be a wrestling family or coach to really understand what we're gonna be talking about today. This is for you no matter what sport you're a part of. This episode lays out what actually moves a recruit up, a coach's list. Clear communication, consistent effort, and habits that show who you are when nobody's watching. Coach Barber will break down film that helps, emails that get read, social media that builds trust, and the academic plan that signals you are ready for the demands of college. We'll get practical, unfit, how to read a program's culture prep for visits, how to carry yourself in conversations and understand timelines. And because Lynchburg is building its first roster on the road to odac competition in 20 26, 27, you'll hear how a new program evaluates character commitment and readiness. For weekly blogs, recruiting tools, my significant recruiting books, my launchpad classes, and how to schedule me to speak at your school or organization, head over to coach matt rogers.com. Now let's get into part two with Coach Vinny Barber. You and I have been talking recruiting for a long time. I'm really interested in,'cause I've been out of it in terms of running my own program for 12 years now. So much has changed from a technological standpoint. So much has happened now with texting and there's so many apps out there and social media. Are you hearing from parents more than you expected to? Are you getting texts from parents and social media things more than you expected to? Yeah. Yeah. I think,'cause I kind of engineer that in a way. So as I've kind, I say older as I've just aged past the way kids communicate I've started like really relying on Facebook for parents, right? I add every recruit's parents on Facebook'cause that gives me some insight.'cause the parents post the things, the kids don't care, think they care about yet, right? Like homecoming or an a on a paper, which now that gives me another touch point that I might not already hear from the kid. I'd be like, Hey, I saw you guys went to Disney. I saw you did really good on your project. And they're always like, I wonder how Coach knows, right? It's'cause I care to know. But that does open the door to have more conversations with parents. I look at like social media as. Extension of my coaching staff and myself, like Facebook is me recruiting the parents in a way. And if you go to my Facebook page yeah, you see some of my personal life in there, but it's pretty much about the program and the way I am as a human right, and the way I run my program. And so talking to parents more has definitely become a thing. I'm actually I'm like. Trying it now because I think parents who wanna be involved, like, why not have them involved Now I'm good about setting the boundaries, like as you do with fundraising or anybody outside the team that's involved is like, how do you create a boundary that they're not like too involved, but they're, they feel good. But I actually have a lot of interactions with parents and building those relationships because they. Let's face it, they're part of the decision process. They are part of an alumni base in the future. They're part of a fundraising base. They have so many factors, and I want them to feel special that they're sending their son to come wrestle for Lynchburg. And they have a stake in the game too. And they feel good about it, they feel good. And I mean it's in longer insight into how their child, who their child is, and who their family is that we're welcoming to our program. That's really cool. Is social media. A good way for a kid to reach out to you to get noticed by you. Because one of the things I always warn kids on, it's real easy for a coach now to click a heart. I just sent you a message coach and Oh, they clicked a heart. Oh, they followed me. Yeah. What does that mean to you when you favor a kid or follow a kid? What's that? Yeah. I think, what's the reality of that? I'm gonna, it's gonna sound like, like scientific when I say this, but I just was talking to my assistant about it, right? He's first time coaching and I was like, recruiting is not that hard. I'm not discrediting why I do these things, but swiping up on a kid's story and sending him like that fire emoji. Is like just a quick rush of like dopamine and be like, coach sees me. And I don't, I'm not discrediting that. That's, I do it because that's how you communicate with the kids. I have a desk full of handwritten letters. I actually have some here that I gotta mail out, that though, not as hard hitting anymore with the kids. Right? Sammy just went up and watched a kid play soccer on a senior day. We're not soccer coaches. That the kid thinks that's cool. But staying and meeting them at their level is really important to me. So the parents see things we do more, the coaches see those like old school recruiting and I think that there's never not a time that's important, but from the kids standpoint and also. It is easier for me. You're sitting at home and you're relaxing instead of getting on the phone with the kids, which you can do when you're driving. That's still gonna be something we do, but you're just like, doom scrolling and you come across a recruits page. Like that's helpful for me. That now has become like a, the way to touch the have a touch point with a kid. It's like pretty easy. It's like a low hanging fruit. Yeah. But you'd still be shocked on how many don't do it. Social media is like where we meet'em. That's that has become very as much as I, I feel like I'm an old man when I say this as much, I hate that it has become something that, we've had to adapt with. I think you see some coaches get outta the game now because they're adverse to understanding that, or they bring in really young assistants who live there. My assistant crushes it on social media. All my assistants were young, first time coaches, they crush it there. And the social media footprint, it's that's what's cool. You gotta be cool. I gotta be somewhat cool and gotta have it. Yeah. I won't take credit for any of that, but it's something that I've preached to you and your staff at Ozarks and I preached I just did a keynote with 60 coaches in Oregon. And it's one of those things that. There's too many coaches that don't get that part. It's the wow for the kids you've taken. It might just be 20 seconds outta your life, but you've said, wow, that's cool. Hey, great job. Or, Hey, boom man, way to go. Yeah. And it's their social media becomes like the old school Rolodex of notes. Yes. Like I get so much information like, and I'm not, again, like college coach's life is super busy, right? Like between, like for my, for example, the last three weeks I put 10 hour days putting walls up in this facility and getting it ready. The last thing I was doing was checking results. But while I'm going, while I'm home for 20, 30 minutes and waiting for dinner to be done, like I'm scrolling through Instagram, it's oh, that kid went five and two that weekend. Ah, there's the result I was looking for. There's the. Oh, he had homecoming or he did this, or there's a picture of him getting a good win or I learned more about him outside of wrestling. I think social media actually, as much as some people wanna despise it as much as I sometimes do, it also has made recruiting a more well-rounded like approach and you can really learn so much more if you just kinda let it like absorb you for an hour a night. Yeah. I think what's changed in the last 25 years since I started doing this is you might have 50 to a hundred recruits that are on your radar that you know who they are. You've seen'em compete you know what they're made of. Today it might be 500 to a thousand kids Oh, yeah. That you've had a touch point with. Yep. And you can't, you don't have the time in the day to do it like we used to 25 years ago. Yep. You need that social media to go, Hey, I'm still here. Still thinking about you. Yep. Nice job, because every interaction on social media is recruiting. Like we just posted our highlight video, a highlight video today from our camp. And it's like that is a touch point for recruiting. Everyone just saw that every piece of content is that. And so it works both ways, whether we're interacting or they're interacting with us on social media, like that's huge. And then, the, I see how this is gonna make me feel like I'm like a hundred years old. I see some knucklehead stuff on social media though. So that's one thing I tell kids be careful what you're posting, right? I see some kids posting things where I'm like, man, I wish I didn't know that about you. I wish that was like something you didn't do. I wish that was, kids have gotten a lot better at it though. Like usually kids you post on, so I'll never run across those kids'cause I just don't attract those types of kids to our program to begin with. And they, I think kids have gotten better and like when I was coming through, like things I posted in college, idiot, I was a big old idiot. But it was new. That was when Twitter and all that stuff was just coming out. Now it's like these kids are a little smarter. They know what to keep private. But it's just a big insight and I think we just had a call with our recruiting software about an hour ago, and integrating social medias into their profiles was a big one, right? Trying to get their social media is so big. It just, I always look, I'm like, what are the schools do they follow? And, oh, that's my competition, right? Oh, that school's not following'em. They don't have a chance. And I know that might not be the way to look at it, but I do, I look and say Hey, so and so is not following this recruit that we're on. And they're not even in the picture. Yeah it's. I was gonna ask you this question in the last segment, but this is a really good transition to get that topic back up. Social media is their independence. In terms of where their identity trying to figure out what their identity is next. Yep. You talked about in the last segment about that first two weeks, you want kids to figure out college. You wanna figure out how are you gonna do this? How are you going to, are you gonna get your butt up at 6:00 AM to start practicing 6:00 AM How important is that they try and figure out and learn what their identity is without their parents before they get to you? Is that even possible? I think it's hard. I think that becomes really hard. It's interesting because, I think too, kids, like when I was growing up, I wanted a lot of freedom. I think now as. At times it's just changed. I think parents have become a little bit more friendly with their kids, where you know, not that I come from a very strict household, but my parents were my parents. I didn't go, I didn't do some of the things kids do with their parents nowadays. I think it takes, a unique kid to try to go find out. There was a kid I was recruiting in Illinois and unfortunately I just don't think he wants to come this far away, but, he started his own little landscaping business and he was like, really crushing life. And I was like, man, those kids are really hard to find nowadays to do those types of things. But finding their identity as themselves is important. Some of the things that I look at there is, and it, this is a weird one'cause I want the parents to come up on the visit with them for sure, but it's kids who showed up to the prospect camp without their parents, who makes the decisions like, Hey coach, I'm ready to come visit. I'm gonna let my parents know. Or, Hey, my mom's still filling out my applications. I still get that sometimes, like parents fill out the applications and actually increasingly more than I ever have. And I used to have a rule. If your parents are filling out the application, I ain't recruiting you. But I think the day and age we are, parents are more involved and. It makes it hard to stand on that hill. I don't wanna die on that hill anymore, but it is really important for kids to start to, to find their own, because, and that's what I tell kids on the recruiting process, and I beat around the bushes. Hey, when you get here. You're on your own for good, right? Like you're, this is it. And find that over the summer, right? Find that, start doing your own laundry. I tell'em all, start doing your own laundry, right? That's the one thing you'll thank me for when you get here is I did my own laundry, so I got my closure cleaned, right? And that's a small one. And but it's a big one. But finding their own identity now and becoming. Like a man now is important because again, there's so much change about to happen in college, and I got kids that I'm recruiting from Minnesota. There's gonna, there's not kids from 20 minutes down the road. They're here, you're going far. You got new responsibilities, new people. You got a roommate, you might not know you got a coach that you're feeling out for the first time and you're on your own. So having some independence is really important. Hypothetically, I'm a 16-year-old wrestler in Ohio. Done really well. Heard great things about Lynchburg. I'm gonna make state my junior year again for this, the second time. How do I let Coach Vinny Barber know that I'm interested in you? What's ideal for you to get a kid's information get to know that they're thinking about you. I talk to kids about this all the time. Every time I go to a high school, it's guys, you think there's. You know so many kids in the country who wrestle, so many who wanna wrestle in college and then just like I'm very honest with the kids, like there's some coaches you just don't recruit. So if there's 175 division three co or 145 division three college wrestling programs, I'm just gonna say 45, might never even get outta their office and hope the kids come to them. So there's only a hundred to 200 coaches, including assistants that are ever recruiting. So 200 and there's probably, sometimes I'll run it like this weekend I had a hundred kids in here, right? So the numbers just are. Against us as coaches. So I always say reach out, right? I want the kid who reaches out and something that I've seen more increasingly, like kids make little mock resumes and I'm like, that's cool, right? They email it to me and I'm like, that's cool. You go up. You might not be that good at wrestling right now, but I like that, right? You're, I'm gonna worry about you going to class. I get kids who reach out to me on social media. One thing I advise is try not to use slang or, and talk in complete sentences when you're doing that, right? The biggest one, and this is the one, like some weird analogy, but it's almost like dating recruiting's. Almost like dating. You put so much time in it and then you just get ghosted when the biggest pain in the butt for me is I looked at it the other day. I messaged all the kids trying to push, get some visits and stuff. So I got this app where I like can send the messages over and over, but I track analytically where, how much have they responded? And I got seven or eight kids who we want, and I don't want to give up on, they've never responded to me. And then one of them today said, coach, I'm sorry I've seen these messages. I've just been busy. And I'm like, how busy? And I need him'cause he's a big guy and it's a little far hard to find big guys out here, but it's like kids don't, and I'm not knocking the kid I used to get so mad at the kids, they don't get it right. They're 17, 18 years old. They don't get it. I can't expect them to think like you. And I think, but I say it all the time. If you are not about a coach, just let'em know. Hey coach, I'm not interested. You can't let a college coach text you three times with no response. You can't have three methods of communication with no response. Yep. That's, yep. They don't understand what that does to your mentality about them and the impression that they're building in your head. And I use this analogy, you talked about dating. I use this all the time. I just tell kids, I go, if a girl reaches out to you, you're a boy and a girl reaches out to you, or you reach out to a girl and you say, Hey, love to go to the movies with you. Silence. Yeah. Day two, silence. Day three, silence. What is your, what do you think that girl is thinking about you? Yeah. She obviously doesn't wanna go to the movies with me. Obviously she doesn't like me. Okay. Yeah. Guess what happens when you do that to a coach? Yeah. Same thing. Who sent you a text? Say, Hey, I love you. Can we set up a time to talk? Yep. And it's funny. We have the number one school I'm gonna recruit against is about 45 minutes away. Me and that coach are really close. He's runs a great program, but we talk about recruits. We're good buddies. We've been buddies since I started Coach and he was at a different school like, and so we talk about it and I'm like, Hey, and we'll always recruit the same kids, like we're always gonna recruit. I said, so and so you talk to him, he says. Doesn't answer me. I said, me neither. And we're always just we don't wanna deal with that. Or like I would you, yeah. And I say to kids too'cause sometimes, and I care about kids, I wanna see'em do well. Like a kid will come across my desk sometimes and be like, Hey, I want to be like a meteorologist, right? And I'll be like, Hey, Plymouth State is division three wrestling. And they're really good in that field academically.'cause there's not a lot of options for that. But I think like sometimes that also counteracts itself where. We might see a kid, like if I got a good coaching buddy, and it's man, this was my experience with the kid. Like coaches talk, like we're not like cutthroat division one people where we don't talk about recruits like we talk, we know. And no, every time that I communicate with a recruit is another opportunity for me to win them over just as much as every time that they communicate with the coaches, another time they could lose that opportunity. And I don't wanna, I always look at recruiting that they hold all the power. I know that might sound weird, but I think a lot of coaches. Live by this. Like I can do more for them than they can do for me. No, they can do for me. That's why I'm recruiting them. I wanna help them. And it's transactional in that regard. But like the kids hold the power in the whole recruitment process, definitely at the division three level, because I don't have any money to offer athletically and I like it that way. But they ha they almost gotta own that a little better. And communication is key, right? Like communication and just growing up. Like the last thing I like to see is a kid commit to another school after I'm recruiting him for three weeks and he, or three months. And he doesn't even tell me. I'm like, man, I thought we were cool like that, right? I thought we were buddies. It's stuff like that. And I just think sometimes kids don't recognize that. Yeah. Yeah, I told one of my kids last night, I go, you're probably gonna have 18 or 20 coaches making you an offer here. When we're all said and done. I know this is gonna be hard to hear, but I'm gonna tell you this right now. You're gonna call every one of'em once you make the decision. Yep. They put a ton of time into you and they wanted you, they wouldn't have offered you if they didn't want you. Yeah. They see you as a part of their future. Make the phone call. Don't send a text, don't send an email. Make the phone call and say, coach, thank you. There's a place that's a little better for me and maybe a little better money, and, but I just want you to know how much I appreciate you. Yeah. Does that, doesn't that make your day when you get that? Oh yeah. Even though it's heartbreaking. Oh, it's awesome because I'll tell you, I want these kids to be successful. So that's happened to me before. And I'll look across at the national tournament and see that kid and be like, Hey, good luck, man. I like that, like me. I like that. I don't wanna be mad at an 18 to 22-year-old. That's just weird at 35, 33 years old, right? Yeah. So I and I want that for kids. And also, like I tell Sammy, rarely will I ever say the door closes on a kid. Yeah.'cause sometimes they might go somewhere they think at 18 is the right choice and then 20 rolls around and they're like, Hey, it's not, or we had a kid, my last national qualifier at Ozarks, he didn't choose the Ozarks. He was very good about it. Went to a different school for some different reasons last year. Said, Hey man, I wanna wrestle for you. I knew I should have back then. I was like, that door never closed, made it became my last national qualifier. He was actually the assistant coach there now. Great kid, but it's like now that I have master's degrees here, a kid I recruit at 18. I'm gonna try to get him here as maybe a ga as maybe the used his last year, whatever it is. Like I keep a running list on my phone of like recruits we've missed out on. I just check and see if they're still wrestling or what happens. And not like illegally. It's but hey, maybe he's in the portal. I've talked to that kid and it ended well. Now when they just ghost me. It's it's the bridge has been burnt a little bit. I don't, and I know it's hard to say'cause they're underdeveloped brains at 17, 18 years old, but I'm like, nah, I don't. That ship has sailed. Yeah, and social media makes it so much easier now, we have texting, we have social media. You can go so easy. You don't have to tell nobody. You could just text a coach. I found another option. Be like, oh, you don't even have to, I don't even have to hear you say it. At least you demonstrated some level of respect. Some level of We put into each other was valuable. Yep. Correct. I just had a 45 minute phone conversation with a kid I recruited 20 years ago that went to another school. I wanted the kid more than anything. He's a lawyer now. He's got his own family. We connected through LinkedIn and we talked on the phone. He goes, coach, I would've loved to play for you, but your school didn't have some of the things I wanted, but, and I was like. Hey man, I completely understand, but I'm so still so proud of you. Look what out with your wife off. I get, I got this recruit I used to, I recruited at the Ozarks. He was at another school in Arkansas that he transferred out. When he was transferred. I re recruited him and now he's he'll send me recruits now that, because he's from New Jersey and I'm on this side now and he's Hey. And we actually just landed a kid the other day because of him, and I'm like, that works. Like it just wasn't a fit for him is all. There may not be a better analogy than for coaches and athletes to understand that the recruiting process is a long journey that's gonna continue long after you graduate college if you do it right, if you think about that mindset, right? Correct. Yeah, so I love that. Coach. This has been awesome. I haven't asked this question. I don't think of any guess any college coach before, but I wanna get your thoughts on it. I usually ask about, you've done so much already, given advice for parents and recruits. Yeah. What's your advice to high school coaches about the recruiting journey? What do you wish? Yeah. It's, they were doing and thinking about. So I think what's really important for high school coaches, and I'm pretty brash when I say this. I spoke at like an Arkansas thing and they never had me back'cause of this like an Arkansas coaches convention, but all the coaches want, they asked me, what do you look for in a recruit? And I think they wanted this very easy oh, when he moves his hands in his feet, he does this. When he does this, he does that. And wrestling related. And I was like. I need somebody who's coming from a program where their coach is like real with them. I think sometimes high school coaches, get really caught up in, in where they can send their kids and it becomes like a weird, oh, I sent my kid over to. University of Northern Iowa. Now me and Schwab are like this and it's are you, is that why you did it? So you said to that coach, we're buddies and you can get a beer with him every now and again, so you can post about it. I want the coach. There's a lot of coaches that I run into now out here where it's like, Hey, I got a kid for you. And we will sit down after he wrestles for me or and it started more at the Ozarks towards the end. But I can tell out here some coaches just want the best for their kid. Yeah, like I've connected with, there's some coaches out here that I'm really not super interested in building relationships with right now because they're more on the what can you do for me, type. Thing rather than the coaches. What can you do for them? What can you do for their kids? And it's I want the coaches who recognize that it's not about wrestling, right? Like I want the coaches who have me and like we, we built some really good relationships. The best coach in the state, one of the best coaches in the state, both coaching stacks, one's skyline and one is Grassfield. They're like number one. Number two, arguably either one's the best. And we go out to their high schools a lot, built really good relationships with them. And they just say we respect what you do out there. We respect what you're building. They don't even care if we're division three, division one, if we have money, if we have not to like, Hey, this kid will be good for you. Rarely does it even come up like, oh, they wanna go. Do you want the kids have that allure, but I want coaches and coaches need to level with their kids and sometimes have the hard conversation like. Division one Athletics right now is such a cutthroat space. The Division one dream is dead. I believe the Division one dream is dead. I know that sounds crazy to say, but like to say, I'm a fringe Division one wrestler and I'm gonna walk on and the coach is gonna spend time and develop me, and I'm gonna win a national championship on my senior year. He's gonna pay five kids at the same weight in that same five years that you're there trying to do that thing. Just the way, it's just the way it is now. Yeah, it is. And and if they're not, then the program's probably not all that successful. There's such, there's no, not much not much parody there, right? Like you're either paying kids a lot of money or you're not having success. And their job is to find the best kids in the country from California all the way to New York. And you could be in Montana, right? Yeah. So I, I want coaches who understand that picture, and they don't really ask me what technical things do my kids need to work on. That's the question that comes after they commit. Hey, coach, he's committed to you. How can I get him better and ready for your room? That's a down the road question. The question the things that I want these coaches hammering me on now is like. How are you gonna help my kid become great at life? And the coaches who find more value in saying, I'm sending my kids to wrestling college for four years at a place where they can be successful academically and athletically, versus those singular signing day posts when you've got your arm around them and there's three division one hats on the table, and that's your claim to fame. And so I know that's a long-winded answer. I hope that makes sense. But I need, I I only recruit from programs that send kids to division three level on a, or non-scholarship programs on a consistent basis. And I don't mean that as like to push them out. It's like they get it right. Like there, there's a club in town. He wasn't too interested in having me out or any division three coaches, and I'm like. Why? Yeah. Like why? Fuck, you have to lose. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that's what I thought. And now I'm just like, okay, I probably won't ever get a kid from that club and I'm okay with that because the other thing that co high school coaches don't realize sometimes is like the athletes you produce. Have had for a few years become who you are in your belief system of wrestling. So there's a really good buddy of mine, Willie Hilton out there in North Carolina. I'll take his best kids down to him. Maybe he is not his best kids because that guy's a great coach and he knows what he's talking about and he instills the right things in his kids and he wants the best for them. There's some other coaches where it's. I wanna take their best kid'cause they don't think highly of division three or they're gonna come in with this sense of arrogance. It's like realizing like I'm recruiting you to high school coach. You're my first you're one of the first people I look at personally as a high school coach. Like I look and see what program are they coming from, what kind of values are being instilled, what kind of things are they teaching their kids? Yeah. Not just in wrestling, but like how important is it then for them to match the kid up with the correct college fit? Or how important is it for them to hang Penn State's wrestling banner from their gym? I, it was always a pet peeve of mine when a high school coach would call me and say, Matt, I got a kid for you. Yeah. Like this is the perfect kid for you. I'm like, you've never been in my gym. You've never seen him practice. Yep. You have no idea what our system is offensively or defensively and you think you've got a kid for me. Yep. I always tell high school coaches, if you're gonna call me about a kid, say, Hey, Matt. I got a kid I think can play at your level. Yep. Would you evaluate them for me? Yeah. Would you gimme some feedback and let me know if we're right, if we're wrong, or what we need to be looking at differently? Yep. So now that person wants to be a partner with me. Now that person wants to learn about my system and how I teach. Yeah. Instead of trying to tell me what kid's gonna fit, how are you? No. And that, that is, that's huge. It's like I get this one a lot. Coach. He's a D one talent. What's a D? What's a D one? Talent. What does that mean? That's true. What does that one mean? I dunno what that means. I swear like my assistant wrestled four years, division one, one of the best. He was like the number one high school recruit coming out of high school into college his senior year. If anybody's been recruited and is like a true division one athlete, it's Sam Hillgas, right? Yeah. But it's funny because like he'll hear that sometimes he'll be like. What does that even mean? Like how do you quantify that? Like, how do you quantify a D one talent? And there's the guy, this is how you quantify it when they have D one offers on the table. There you go. That's how you quantify. That's the biggest thing. So there's a coach who wrestle division one. He is up, he's up on like the Virginia, like up top of Virginia and his name is John Fian. Phenomenal wrestle, division one. Phenomenal athlete, phenomenal competitor, great coach. We're talking about some of the kids he's got and and he's has some true kids who can wrestle at the division one level. But we were just talking about kids in general the other day, and I was like. What do these kids think? Like that they're just randomly don't have D one offers, so they just walk onto a D one team and changes like, and I'm not trying to be mean to the kids, it's just hey, if he's not talk, if the coach is not talking to you. Then that, that's a red flag. Go somewhere where somebody wants you, not somewhere you wanna be. And I know that's so hard to say because it's like maybe you don't want to a hundred percent be at Lynchburg, but like the coach wants you there. Or any school insert any other school, maybe it's man I'm like 80% sold in that school, but that coach is a hundred percent sold on me. Or you go down to Penn State or Iowa, or West Virginia or vtech and you're like. Oh, I didn't even get to see the head coach, but like I love the tech and I'd love to one day maybe put a single on an immediate media picture and it's like. Ooh I don't even think the coach will know your name and that's okay. I'm not knocking those coaches. Their job is different than mine and their, their paychecks drive a different way. So I'm not, I get it. That's a, it's just different. There's levels to this. But it's always interesting to me, and I tell high school coaches a all the time. You, it's your job as a high school coach to put your athlete in the best situation for them to be successful at the next level. And if you don't do that, you failed the kid. It's so funny'cause I hear this some parents all the time, they'll say my son beat the kid that's signing at Appalachian State or at Cleveland State or Columbia. Throw out a D one kid that signed. Why didn't they offer I son? Why aren't we getting those same offers? Yep. Your son might have D one ability, but does he have D one character? Does he have D one? Yep. Does he have a D one work ethic? Yep. Is he a D one teammate? Does he have D one grades? Yeah. So there, there's just so many layers how we talk. I get it. Like we have a really good working relationship with a division one not too far from here in another state. And they'll get emails from kids all the time and they forward'em to me. They're like, Hey, this kid's not bad. Like he's a good wrestler, but he is not gonna wrestle you and we can't. We can't tell him more times and it's I really commend this coach'cause he's done a great job. He's one of the best coaches I've ever seen in division one wrestling. It's he's I don't know why they keep emailing me. And it's, but somewhere along the way, whether it's a parent or a high school coach, is keeping that dream alive for the kid. And it's like they're trying to put the kid in, like the other coaches are trying to put this kid in a good position by sending him my way. But the kids are just so obtuse because somewhere along the way, whether it's mom or dad or high school coaches are telling them go wrestle. If you're a true division one athlete, and I'll, this is like the. Advice I could give to recruits 98% or 99%. And you probably agree if you're a Division one caliber athlete, you probably have been communicated with by a Division one coach and it might not be a big one, right? It might be a small piece, act school, some small levels, at least by the end of your junior year. Like it's not gonna just randomly pop in where you are. Done with your high school wrestling season and all these D ones just start talking to you. It's probably you're gonna hear from these people pretty before you probably are walking on campus your senior year more times than not. And it, it comes down to just being practical with your child too. Every five or six years, my wife and I'll buy a new car. And I'll always be like, let's just go. Let's just go drive the Lexus. We can't afford it. Let's go drive. Let's go drive the Cadillac. And it's amazing how many times I'll get into one of those cars that are 20, 30, 40, 50,000 more than I can afford, and I'll go. I wouldn't spend the money for this. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? This doesn't, I don't like the head space, I don't like, I don't like the technology. Yep. And I think parents need to understand that is get your kids to look at every level. Go visit a Lynchburg. Go visit a D two. Go visit an NI go visit a D one. But if D ones aren't saying, we want you to visit, if you have to go through the admissions office. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah there's a big problem in how you're evaluating your child, correct. Instead of saying. Let's figure out what their value is and let's give them some options where they have some choices. So I'll never, and I can say it like with Lynchburg, right? Like I think some people gotta give people, looks like a school like Lynchburg, like a really good athletic department. We have division one capable athletes on this campus in other sports. We win national championships in a lot of sports here and wrestling to be next. And it's our, we treat our kids like division one athletes, like Sammy Wrestle. Division one is we have better facilities than some. We have a nutrition station, right? Like we have things here. We have five or six full-time athletic trainers. We have three full-time strength coaches. We have, a 30,000 square foot weight room and multi-purpose training facility. 12,000 square foot wrestling facility like we have. National Division three and NCAA Coaches of the Year, national champions on staff. Like we have things that, look I say it all the time to kids, we treat this like a division one university. I just don't give you Division one scholarship, but this is division one type wrestling. And that's where I think sometimes people are like, oh, like we have these, some kids in state who are like, I don't wanna wrestle division three. And I'm like, I don't know, man, if you'd even start for me. And I'm not being mean. It's just you're not great yet, but it's this preconceived notion that Division three is like a club. And I'm like, no, we. If you like, when people come on this campus and they see the high, the level that we care about our athletics here at Lynchburg, sometimes I even forget, like I think we're at a D one, a smaller division one university. Now we're not like Penn State massive enrollment, but for comparable enrollment size to division ones, we'd be like top of the pack for a lot of division ones that have 2000 undergrad enrollment. Like we, we crush it in that department. That's so cool. I'm so happy for you, my friend. I'm proud of you. I'm so thankful for our friendship and I love you to death and I know you are just gonna tear it up there. But thanks for coming back, sharing your story again and sharing your new story. And I know any coach or family or student athlete that's listening to this, take what Coach Barber's saying to heart. None of this is absolute. And he's trying to get that clear, this is about, it's about finding that great fit. It's about finding those relationships you want to take you on your journey. So thanks for continuing to do it, my friend. Yeah. Appreciate you, man. What a great conversation. Big thanks to Coach Vinny Barber for the straight talk on recruiting, communication, fit, and habits that move you up a coach's list. If this helped you, please make sure you follow, subscribe, rate, and leave a quick review so more families and coaches can find the show for weekly blogs, recruiting tools, my significant recruiting books and journals, our launchpad classes to help guide you through every step of your recruitment. If you're interested in having me come speak to your high school organization, please go visit coach matt rogers.com for all of our free resources and tools. We're here to help your recruiting and coaching journey get easier. Until next time, stay focused, stay humble, and keep chasing significance.