Episode #118: Will Chavis

🎙️ From Bobby Knight to Drexel: The Humble Leadership of Will Chavis 🏀

In this episode of The Significant Coaching Podcast, host Matt Rogers sits down with Will Chavis, Assistant Men’s Basketball Coach at Drexel University — and one of the most grounded, inspiring voices in college basketball today.

From being Bobby Knight’s first recruit at Texas Tech to a decade-long professional career in Europe, to developing NBA players and leading young men at every level — Coach Chavis’s journey is a masterclass in humility, resilience, and purpose-driven leadership.

He opens up about what he learned from playing for legends, how his international experience shaped his coaching style, and why he believes the chaos of modern college athletics (NIL, transfer portal, player movement) is actually an opportunity to lead differently — with empathy, honesty, and hope.

If you love real conversations about coaching, culture, and character, this episode will hit home.

🔗 Learn more about Coach Will Chavis: drexeldragons.com/staff-directory/will-chavis/553

💡 Explore tools and resources for coaches, athletes, and parents at CoachMattRogers.com

Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes

Don't rely on mere chance.  Be significant with your future.

The easy 12-step book to owning your college recruitment.

Get your copy here at Amazon.com

Also, check out the companion workbooks The Baseball, Basketball, Soccer, Softball and Volleyball Recruit's Journals at coachmattrogers.com or amazon.com.

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Welcome back to The Significant Coaching Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Rogers. This week's guest is someone I could have talked to for hours, will Chavis, assistant men's basketball coach at Drexel University. One of the reasons I love doing this podcast is because I'm always learning every conversation, whether it's with a coach, an athlete, a college president, or a professional in another field. It always makes me better, and my hope is that it does the same for you. That these stories, these perspectives and insights, open your eyes to different ways of thinking, to different cultures and to the ideals that shape how people lead and grow. Coach Chavis is the absolute embodiment of that. I was captivated by his story from being the first recruit by legendary coach Bobby Knight when he moved from Indiana to Texas Tech, to his time playing professionally in Germany, and ultimately realizing that coaching was his true calling. But what really stuck with me were the moments in between the moments where his humility and perspective shown through. You could just feel how much gratitude he carries, how much he values the game, and how deeply he cares about the people he's responsible for and accountable to. Coach Chavis brings such a grounded, yet hopeful voice to the conversation about where college basketball and really college athletics as a whole is headed. He doesn't run from the chaos that defines the Division One landscape. Right now. The NIL, the transfer portal player movement dealing with agents of 18 year olds. Instead, he embraces it. He sees it as a part of the evolving world we live in, and he's choosing to lead. Through it with integrity and purpose. I love that. I learned so much from him. There were so many times during our talk where I just felt this overwhelming gratitude to him, not only for the wisdom he was sharing, but for the hope he gave me about the future of college sports. We need more people like Will Chavis humble leaders who love the game, love their players, care deeply about doing things the right way And he fully accepts that we must adapt with the times, and he is and he loves it. I truly believe he's going to play a big role in shaping what the next chapter of our sports looks like. I hope the leaders at the NCAA look to individuals like Will. Who played college ball at different levels, played professionally, now have come back in our coaching. His insight and his wisdom are so valuable. And after listening to this episode, I think you'll feel the same. Now if you wanna learn more about me or wanna reach out to me to get advice on your child's college recruitment, or just want to have a conversation about how I can help your school, your community, or your culture, you can schedule with me anytime@coachmattrogers.com. I also encourage you to check out my recruiting books and classes. My advice not only comes from 20. Plus years of experience, but also from a deep devotion to making sure young athletes and families don't make the same mistakes I've seen too many families make over the years, including my own when I was a teenager. And before I forget, I want to thank Coach Brian, BJ Johnson, associate head, men's basketball coach at Bingington University for referring Coach Chavis to me. I, the coaches and the presidents and the adss that I interview every week have been so gracious to introduce me to people that they trust and they believe in and see as significant coaches and leaders. And I'm thankful for BJ to introduce me to Will and, and I'm thankful to have will in my life and thankful that I got to have a conversation with him. Alright, let's get to the significant conversation with the phenomenal will Chavis. Coach Javis, so great to see you, man. Thanks for being on the show. Sure, man. Thanks for having me, man. Man, you're in the thick of it. I know you guys have been going hard since April at that, at the D one level, what are practices starting to look like right now as we get closer to October 15th is right around the corner and you guys have scrimmages and games coming up. What are practices looking like in terms of intensity right now? Yeah, they, they've been pretty intense. We're rubbing it up trying to, stagger the days of hard practice with moderate practice, with low practice. But the guys are getting after it. We have five new guys. We had nine returners, so it's going to be competitive and they're a competitive group, right now we're just trying to get our habits down, get some pattern recognition with some of the plays. Yeah. And just try to scaffold from there. What's the hardest thing for you teaching? You got five new guys coming in with nine returnees, nine guys that really know what practices look like and what you guys want for that rhythm and pace. What's the hardest part for you with those five guys coming in new? Honestly, they've been great. I think we've done a good job of trying to teach the habits in a way that they can learn 'em. We structured it in a way where the returns could also help them as well. So I think our returning guys have done an awesome job of integrating the new guys. And they've done a, the new guys have done a good job of assimilating, trying to pick up those habits of what we're trying to do and what we want to accomplish on the floor. You okay if we talk Juco a little bit? Yeah, sure. I know that's how you came up and then you went and played. For an unknown coach, this Bob Robert Knight guy, right? Yeah. Yep. Talk a little bit about what JUCO did for you and what that meant to have those two years, not only to grow as a ball player, but to grow as a young man and to figure some things out. First. Did that make a difference for you? Yeah, it did. I so Juco, I came to juco. It was an interesting path for me because. I never would've expected to go juco. I was an honor student. Like I never I never thought that would be my route, but the stigma back then was juco guys that didn't qualify. It was a different stigma than what it is right now. Right now in JUCO you have a lot of freshman qualifiers just because of the transfer portal. But my freshman year, I started out at the University of New Hampshire, which was in the league with Drexel. Yeah. It was America East back then, but all the teams that are in the CAA were mixed in Hofstra Delaware back then Northeastern, so they all were in the America East. So I started out there, New Hampshire with Jeff Jackson's the head coach. After my freshman year, Jeff decided to leave he took another job at Vanderbilt with Kevin Stallings. I had an opportunity to try to go with Jeff. He came to my dorm and tried to convince me to go, but I felt it'd been better for me just to, to see what was out there. So I decided to transfer. Back then it was when you transfer, you had to sit out a year. So it came down to UNC Greensboro with coach Dempsey and Coach McCaffrey, who's at Penn right now. And Tennessee State, which was Frankie Allen and Coach Monarch. I chose Tennessee State and I had to sit out that year. So that year I set out Frankie Allen gets fired. Of course he gets fired and it is not funny, but it's just my luck that he would get fired. Yeah, it's, none of this is funny. It's just like when it rains, it pours, doesn't it? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So my coach resigned my freshman year. Maybe it was me, it just, it's bad. My, my coach got fired after my freshman year too, man. So I, I know where you're at. Yeah. So I had to figure it out from there. I initially was going to go to Tyler Junior College in Texas. Okay. Coach Crutchfield was the head coach there. He's the coach at Omaha now and the head coach at Omaha in Nebraska. He was the coach there. And he was friends with Scott Monarch, who's at Grayson Junior College right now. And Scott was my assistant coach at Tennessee State. So Scott got the, Scott sent me to Coach Crutchfield to Tyler. A couple weeks later Scott gets the job at Panola and he tells crutch, I need, will, I need to take will with me. So I ended up going with coach Monarch to Panola, Carthage, Texas. How was that? I always say, I tell a joke, it was probably 2,500 people in the town, and I think 2000 of 'em were in the cemetery. So it was a golden corral on the strip, a Dairy Queen, and I think a Walmart back then. I hear it's a lot better now, but what a, what an easy transition for a 19-year-old girl from Philly. Huh? Yeah, Philly inner city to New Hampshire, to dorm, New Hampshire. Then I go to Nashville, Tennessee, and then Carthage, Texas. Oh man. This is why I do this for a living because. I swear to God, more kids make decisions based on somebody saying, Hey, I like you. You should do this, than actually thinking about what's best for them and where, what would be, where they would be happy and healthy and be in an environment they love. But the other side of it, man, how much did you learn in those two and a half years? Yeah, I learned a lot. I learned a lot because. First of all, I didn't wanna leave either situation. That's I just wanna make that known. Like I didn't have a plan to leave New Hampshire. I sat down and talked to the new incoming coach when they hired him, and I think his style just didn't fit the way, my, I played, yeah. He wanted to get up and down press. I wasn't that type of player to just press the whole game. I was more of a cerebral type point guard, like setting people up. Yeah. Just pressing, just takes the thinking out the game. Yeah. So that didn't work out. And then the other coach came into Tennessee State and the first meeting I had with him, he asked me straight up, are you staying or are you leaving? So here I am, a 18-year-old kid, a man comes up and says, are you standing or leaving? Not Hello. Not like, how are you? Oh gosh. So just off that initial feeling. I just said, I'm going. So yeah, that's how, that's basically how it happened. And what I learned was just to continue to try to get better. Yeah. I think every year after high school, I just feel like I continue to get better and better on the court and off the court. I just try to continue to work hard, and I just felt like good things would happen. Did you feel like there was some continuity by the time you landed down in Texas? Did you feel like you had a coach, you knew a little bit and you understood where he was coming from? Did that help? That's funny. In Juco I'll even go back here. In junior college, I had no idea where I was gonna land. The first couple weeks in junior college were really difficult for me, but I, I was blessed enough to have my brother with me, coach Monarch gave my brother a scholarship. My brother ended up gonna Colorado State playing for Buzz Williams and Okay. And Dale Laer. Yeah. But he was with me, so it helped me out a lot. But that, those first couple weeks were really difficult. And then it started to turn around a little bit. I started, we started to play games. It started to, I just started getting more comfortable with what was going on. I played the whole year in junior college with a torn ligament in my thumb. Oh my gosh. As a point guard man. How heck Yeah. And it was my right hand, my shooting game. Oh. Yep. Tell me about the difficult part. What was the hardest part those first few weeks? What obviously culture wise must have been? A dramatic change for you, even coming from New Hampshire at the time you were in New Hampshire. Going down to Texas, small town, Texas. Man, that's a huge culture change. What was the hardest part for you that you feel felt like you had to overcome? I think the hardest part was just solitude. It was like coming from Philly. It's a big city. Yeah. Going down there, it was just, I didn't have a car. All the baseball team and the basketball team, we shared the dorms. So it was like two bathrooms on East side. Yeah. Shared a dorm with my brother. So it was really like an adjustment in terms of what I was used to having a dorm room and just that difference in, in demographic down there. Also I didn't see a lot of people that looked like me. I would say. I didn't see a lot of people that dressed or spoke like me. So just that, that change, just trying to understand people, the dialect, the language. I had a difficult time just adapting into everything. The food, chicken, fried steak, biscuits. Yeah. Like I wasn't used to that stuff. Healthy stuff. Yeah. Great. Great for an athlete. When you think about that, I would've come in with a ton of preconceived notions. And then when you're 18, 19 years old, you must have thought the absolute worst about everything as you walked out the door there, when did you get, did, was there ever a point where you got comfortable because you stayed in Texas after that? Yeah. Different part of Texas, obviously a bigger city. Yeah. At what point did you start realizing, okay, there's some people here that. I can trust, there's some people here that I can get to know better. There's a bit of a melting pot that maybe I can bring to them. Yep. Is there some of that happened in that year? Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it was. The diversity was definitely there. And I, like you said, I added to that diversity, so I got to learn from different people different aspects. I tried different foods, so it was really a learning experience for me. And like I said, the first weeks were difficult, but after that. I got pretty comfortable when we started playing games. Yeah. So like basketball for me was just like, like a savior, in that environment. Yep. So we would practice, and I, like I said, I really had a chance, the solitude allowed me to get better because I was in college for two years, so that means that I didn't have any class really. I took a couple classes to get my associate's degree, but I was already two years in school, so I basically had one class today. Whatever the eligibility standard was, that's the CLA amount of classes I had, and I would just stay in the gym. In a weight room. You can get really good with nothing else to do. Almost makes you think, as a coach now, how do I create that environment where there's nothing to do? Do we take away their cell phones or computers and lock 'em into the gym? But it's so hard to recreate that now. No, for sure. And I was a worker anyway it just gave me the opportunity to really lock in and focus. Yeah. What doing I was, same way. I was point guard too. It was just like, okay, can I get keys to the gym? 'cause it locks up at 10, 11, whatever it was. I was like, just, yep. I can't sleep before one in the morning, so let me go shoot, let me go dribble, lemme go work on the game, get in the weight room. So I was the same way. What do you, at that point, did you still feel like you were a division one player? Did you feel like. You could play with anybody or were you still have some doubts on playing at New Hampshire and playing at Texas Tech are two different worlds. At that point, where did you feel like you were as a player? Like I said, I felt, I definitely felt like I still was a division one player. It just was what level, coming through our gym. I had two teammates with me. One of 'em transferred from University of Memphis, so a lot of people were coming in, looking at him. And then I had a six 10 guy from Mississippi. I mean he had every power, five SEC, big 10. He had every school in the country coming in looking at him. So I was getting lower level looks. But as the season went on, like I said, I just continued to get better. Yeah. I put a string of games together. I put 40 on 14th, straight Wow. With like double digit assists. So it was like, like I really went to I really went to work, but again I couldn't, I really believe I couldn't have done it if it wasn't for my brother being with me. Is he older than you? He's younger. He's younger. So he had your baby brother there with you. Yep. All right. Yep. And my baby brother had a lot of opinions about how I should have been playing and he I remember one game and this game started the streak we were playing at Jacksonville junior college, and I had one point at half time. And we were losing by 20. I ended up the game with, I ended the game with 41 points and we won the game. What the heck happened at halftime? My brother. My brother, me, my brother and I, we had a lot of choice words for each other. He basically called me soft and it just turned everything, like just, I just turned it around. I just went and killer mode. The whole second half. The trust your coach must have had for you to have that second half to say, Hey, nobody's stopping me now. Yeah. That's, your coach must have been a part of that, even though you were the point guard and you had the ball in your hands, he told me. You were more of a structured kind of guy. Yeah. What score? 40 is tough in 40 minutes. Yeah. Score 40 and 20. Yeah, I can, I could always score. Even in high school, my senior year I was 26 in games, so it was like I could always score. But I, I felt I took pride in winning as well, so whatever it took to win the game, that's what I brought to the game. Even. Even at Tech it's the same, but like whatever it took to win the game, I was willing to do it. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that 40 points in the second half was just, I don't think coach had a choice because I was just so aggressive that it just turned the whole game around. If you're a coach, you're a coaching the guy, he, he's getting the rebound, pushing the ball, making threes, like playing defense. You get the hell outta the way. That's good coaching. You just get the heck outta the way and say just keep doing what you're doing. Yep. We can't build an offense better than what you're doing. Yep. You must have scored on 70% of the possessions. Yeah, it was insane, man. I felt like I couldn't miss. If that makes sense. Yeah. Every shot, I got three pointers off the dribble. Like everything. Like about 10 threes in the second half. It was just, I was just unconscious. It doesn't make sense for me 'cause I never had a game like that, but I could see it through your eyes. That makes a lot of sense. And it helped me out because the team was pressing. Yeah. Ru the guy that wanted to stay at New Hampshire, he wanted to press to game team was pressing. Maybe that's where you should have been. Nah, no. Alright. Tell me about getting recruited by Bobby Knight. I want to hear this story. So basically it starts at that game. So after that game again, I put a string of games together. I just remember after that game, like a lot of Power Five schools started calling my JUCO coach. Yeah. And I could hear him on the phone with him, like in the van, like after the game in the van, I guess Word got out and like a couple schools in Texas, S-M-U-T-C-U at that time, I know that he talked to them for sure on the phone. So I guess when that happens, other schools in that area started to get involved. So I guess they got word of it and yeah, man, it was just, it was a shock because. I had visits set up and I met with a lot of coaches. And they might not even remember this, but I still remember the coaches that I met with, sat down with and talked to, and a lot of 'em are prominent coaches right now. But when Coach Knight came, it just was different. I I didn't even know he was at the game when we were playing San Jacinto. We were playing San Jack. It was another one of those games. They had the number one point guard in the country. And I had two points at halftime. I ended the game like 32. And Coach Knight was at that game. That was that, again, it goes back to what I, what we needed to win the game. Yeah. And I would have outbursts like that. If I felt like I needed to pick up the slack and scoring for my teammates, but if everybody was rolling and everybody, 'cause I was, there was 10 assistant in juco, so if everybody was playing well, I would just, pick my spots. But if I had to force the issue to get everybody going I would do that too. But coach there. Did your brother have an impact that game? That have to I, I was, it is funny because my dad actually came at halftime. My dad showed up to that game at halftime. I didn't even know he was down there. He showed up at halftime and that kind of like also lit a spark. 'cause I saw him in the crowd and we were losing the game. So of course I don't want, I don't want my dad to see me lose this game and I don't care who we were playing against. That's, I always just felt like, man, I gotta change this game somehow. And that's what happened. Tell me about your relationship with your dad. My dad's was awesome, man. He's the one that, he was a really good player. I always hear everyone talk about how good my dad was as a player. I never got a chance to see him play, but I always hear the stories, but he's the one that spent a lot of time with me when I was younger. Teach me how to shoot a basketball, working on my form, and just always talking to me about, am I having fun playing basketball? That was his biggest thing. Are you having fun? And what did you learn? That's great. Yep. So he never was really like a long drive home type of dad. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was more like, and back it was different. Parents didn't go to games a lot back then. Like I could count on probably two hands how many times my parents were at in my games in college, yeah, it's just different. It's hard in college though, especially when you're that far away. You got jobs. Yeah. It's expensive. Nobody's paying for that trip. It's coming outta your pocket. Yeah. I don't think my parents came, but I don't remember being, them, being at more than maybe one or two games, my career. Yep. It was just too far away. They worked all the time and Yep. They didn't have any money. There was, it wasn't like they could hop on a plane and come see me play, exactly. Yeah. It was different. All right, so for the. For those 17 and 18 year olds and parents that are listening to this, how does Bobby Knight introduce himself and what does that first conversation look like? The first time I met him was at the airport on my official visit. Okay. So he came to the airport to pick you up? Yep. Pat Knight. Pat Knight came to Panola and watched me at Open Gym. And that day I remember I met with SMU, I met with Southern Illinois. I met with. Oklahoma was Matt, was that Matt Painter back then? Yeah. Matt Painter. Matt Painter was assistant coach for Bruce Weber. Yeah. They both came to see me in Panola. I was at, I was the head coach at Maryville University at that time. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yep. So I, yeah, Matt and I kinda came up at the same time. Yeah. So you were, that's very cool. So Pat picked you up or Bobby picked you up? Bobby picked me up from the airport and, I just remember the first thing, interaction I said. He asked me how I was doing. He was, he seemed really nice. He was really nice, right? So I'm like, this is not the guy that everybody's talking about. He was really nice. So he so I asked him, I said, coach, why, like, why you recruit me? He's ah, Chavis. Called me Chavis already. They didn't call me Will they just called me Chavis. He said it's not the size of the dog, it's the size of the fighting the dog. And the rest of the car ride was silent. I'm just contemplating what he is saying. Like, all right, what is that like? All right. I'm tough. What? Oh, okay. But yeah, so he, that was an introductory press conference the same day. So he picked me up on the same day that he has his introductory press conference to Texas Tech from the airport. So now being in this world, I see like he made it a priority to come pick me up when he was literally being introduced as the head coach at Texas Tech. You were priority number one for Bobby Knight. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? Wow. That was, that's compliment, man. No, for sure. And looking back on it right now, I'm like, wow. That was that was pretty good. And that's where I first met Chris Beard. 'cause Chris Beard was on our staff and he he was a young coach, coached in Juco. In Oklahoma. Yeah. Yep. He was at the press conference as well. Very cool man. Very cool. So car ride silence. You get there and how does it go? It went well. I don't, I went out with the guys. It is funny because I went out with the guys and with any coaching change is transitioning. Like they're trying to figure out if they're gonna keep the players or not. Like similar to my experience. So it's just amazing. That's where you end up. You were in the middle of a tornado, guys thinking about leaving guys. Not sure. And they wanted to play for Bobby Knight. Not having any idea. All they knew is what they saw on TV about him. And you still made that decision? Yep. That's amazing to me. Yep. How many of those guys that you went out with that night already had made up their mind? They were staying or leaving? Two of them. So you didn't know guys, you were gonna have a team? No I knew we were, have a team. It was, there was, there were three guys, other guys on that visit with me. Okay. And they all committed as well. So Power Kozinski. Irma, Cuco, Irma, Cuco ended up, I think he's with the Brooklyn S right now. He ended up not coming to Texas Tech because of the international stuff back then. Yeah. With, and he ended up playing in Turkey, being one of the best players at FSO, ER, one of those big teams, the Euro League teams. But yeah, he was supposed to play with us as well. But yeah, it was, and there was other guys, like I said, Powell was in France. He was. Polish Prince. He was born in Poland, but lived in France, so he committed as well. And they both were JUCO guys. So knew you, you knew you were coming in with some size, some guys that could shoot it. Yep. Irma played for for Chris Beard. I think it was at Oklahoma or somewhere like that. Okay. But he played for him. And Powell played at Dodge City. Juco in Kansas. Yep. And then K Powell ended up committing from Butler Junior College. Nick Valdez from it was a school in Colorado at Juco ended up committing. And I think that's it. And then we, Andy Ellis stayed Marcus Sharp Shire Steed, Andre Emmett Steed. Mikey Marshall. Yeah. Like a lot of guys stayed. I think it was like five or six of 'em that stayed, and he brought in five of us. So Bobby Knight was really nice. First impression, when did you get to meet the real Bobby Knight? How long did that last? Like coach, like he wasn't like the yelling and all that stuff. It was in practice. Like in the games, he was really like calm and coached the game. But he might got on the refs and yelled at the refs, but it was rare that he was like yelling at us all. It wasn't all the time. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. But for me, for me, I just remember one thing that stood out to me because he questioned like my toughness. It was a loose ball in practice. And he I didn't dive on the floor for the loose ball, and he stopped practice and he said he used some choice words. He said, why did, he said basically, why didn't you dive on the floor for the ball? I thought you were from Philly. And then he went on a tangent talk. He went right there, didn't he? Yeah. Then he went on a tangent and started talking about a guy that he coached from Philly. He was one of the toughest guys he ever coached. He's I just don't know. He is I don't know. You must be from the suburbs or something. That's what he said. So the next chance I got in the same practice, loose ball. I'm the first one to the floor. Dove on the floor, got the loose ball, had a tore my whole side up. It was strawberry red on the side, and he just ran over and picked me up and stopped Practice. Told me like, that's what he needs. That's the intensity he needs. So that was, that's how he was though, like he was a great motivator. Yeah, a great motivator. Knew what buttons to push, didn't he? For sure. A hundred percent.

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What did you learn playing for him those two years, about your game and about yourself, and a little bit of, for foreshadowing of who you are today as a coach? I think it's, I think playing for him shaped me as a player, as a person, as a coach, really as a coach as well. Because the one thing I learned that, that stuck with me is he always used to say mental is to physical is four to one. And like I, I tell kids that to this day when I was coaching my high school team and McDevin, that was our saying. That was our motto among other things. I just learned that

(Cont.) Episode #118: Will Chavis

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being mentally prepared and being able to concentrate is a real skill that's valued in life and I just see a lot of people are unable to do it and I think that he allowed me to learn that to how to really concentrate even in the heat of like battle he allowed us to. And I think that was part of his method of coaching, like the chaos a little bit in practice. He just set an environment where those behaviors would allow you to be successful in the game. Yeah. Yeah. Like being able to concentrate, being able to take instruction. Like he really, he rarely used a clipboard. If he did, he was breaking the clipboard. He wasn't writing on it. He just break the clipboard like, but yeah. He was just a basketball genius. His mind was amazing. Amazing. You've had a great run yourself as a coach before you, you got back into Drexel. What's that journey been like for you? Coaching club, coaching high school? What did you learn about the game? Being able to coach at that level before you got to this level? Yep. I started coaching in Germany, and I will, I wanna say this right now, like I think Germany has the system down. When you see all these players that are coming from Germany that are making the NBA. Yep. And not only making the NBA, making an impact in the NBA. Yep. You see the success of their national team, European champions, world champ, the system that they have in Germany is something that everyone in the world should look at and try to model. So I was a part of that system as my first coaching experience. I was coaching 16 and under. Is that when you were playing too? Yeah. So that's how, explain a little bit how that works when you're playing pro overseas. Yep. So the club I was playing for part of my contract to pay me more money. Me being an assistant coach, I say that assistant coach, right? Which means I come to practice sometimes I don't, like assistant coach to 16 and under team. Because in Germany you could have many jobs where they don't have to pay taxes on it, right? So it was a mini job. The coach end, like the team wasn't great, so he ends up quitting. And when I say the team wasn't great, the kids were amazing, right? But the record wasn't, our record wasn't great in terms of wins and losses, right? So when he left, he just, he quit the team. When he quit, I took over as the head coach. Okay? So because I cared about the kids so much, I didn't even really, I didn't care about winning or losing. All I cared about was that those kids have a great experience, right? That they don't feel like lesser than any other kid and they get better at something. That's all I focused on. We lost games by 40, 50 points, but like after the game, I'm still the happiest guy because. Because we might have remembered the play and ran it. There was some execution. Yes, exactly. And people got better, right? Yeah. So fast forward to the next year, just continuing to develop those kids. We ended up making like we, because in Germany you get relegated. So like even at the youth level, like you'll get relegated and out of the J it is called the JBBL, the union win BA Basketball league. And if you get relegated, you can't play in it. So the top league for youth 16 and under, you can't play in it if you get relegated. So we had to go to a tournament to see if we qualify to play in it again. And man, I'll never forget that feeling, man. We went to that tournament and the same kids that were like, couldn't win a game, were down on themselves. We went to that tournament and won and that was one of the best feelings ever. And I learned a lot as a coach right there. Like a lot of times it's not about people say Xs and Os with the Jimmys and Joes. Yeah. But it is really about how much you pour into the kids and how much. They trust you and they trust each other. They bought into the heart of their coach. Yep. That's awesome. And what was that, Hartenstein and Schroeder were the, were those guys on the roster at that point with you? Yeah, so Dennis and Isaiah, they, we played against those guys. Okay. You played against 'em. Okay. They played against those guys and Hartstein, I think he had 40 and 20 on us. Something crazy like that, it was like he was ridiculous in jail. I can't even imagine him as a 16 century year old playing against, how do you match up with that? You don't trust me. He averaged 40 points a game. It was ridiculous. And Dennis played a little bit, but he wasn't like he already was moving up to the men's team. You could quickly see that he was going to be really good. And there was a lot of other guys too that, that, that played really well, that, that are playing on the national team right now. That I coached against or played in a Euro league that I coached against or playing in top leagues in Europe. Yeah. So it was really good to see that, and it was really good for me to have that experience as a young, I would say young, but as a coach just failing forward, I would say. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. I was allowed to fail forward and I understood what it took. How you had to mold the young players in order to get them to perform at their maximum to the best of their ability. Were you a father at that point? Yes. How much did that having a wife and a kid, because you had just the one at that point, right? No, I had both. You had both? I both, yep. The maturity that you have to take on as a dad when you have kids that age. How much of that affected you as a coach and your ability to mature into the coach you are today, having kids that young and doing it while you're coaching, being a dad? Yeah. At that time, I think at that time I didn't have my kids with me, like my wife, my first wife and I we got divorced the year before I started coaching. Okay. So that also was like a saving grace for me as well. I was at that time, I was going through a difficult time. So to your point, it helped me not being with my kids, take these kids as surrogate. Yeah. It's almost like they took the place of my time and I was very empathetic towards what they were feeling as players as well. They had some adversity. That must have been hard, man. Yeah, it was hard, but I also knew that I was doing it for a reason. Yeah. And I really do feel like it was a calling for me because I didn't plan on doing it. I didn't plan on doing it. I remember I went back to Texas Tech to work camp for Coach Knight and Pat and Chris asking like, why don't you get into coaching? I was like, man, I'm never coaching. Said I'm never gonna coach basketball. I can't, like you put up with us. Like I can't, I don't know if I could do it right. Yeah. But this is coming from a guy that was playing professional. Like I didn't think, I didn't, I wasn't in that mindset. I wasn't in a player's mindset at that time. But those kids in Germany changed my whole outlook on what it meant to be a mentor, a father, a coach all in one. They were awesome, man. That's great. That happened. The same thing happened for me once you get a group of kids to get that hook into you. Yep. And you get to see that light bulb go on. Yep. You get to see them execute the things you're trying to teach 'em. There's not a better drug in the world than that. No. You know what I mean? Matt? Matt, I remember the moment. I knew that I wanted to coach. Tell me. So it was a kid and it is. It is. It was. It was really emotional for me because it was just like the light bulb went off for me. Yeah, yeah. Because it was a kid named Marcel. I was gonna leave it at that, like his name was Marcel, and Marcel was a really good player, but he didn't have a lot of confidence. Yeah. So we're playing an important game. Against a rival by Right by is our rival. We're at home, we're down two points. And we have a side out of bounds. I called a timeout because you move the ball forward in, in Germany. So I called timeout. We get a side out bounds. And I tell Marcel, I said, Marcel, because I felt like he needed a confidence boost. Yeah. And he was playing really well that game. So also he's our hot hand. So I contemplated it. I said, man, should I do this? Because I don't want to kill his confidence. I don't wanna take it away from him, but he's really playing well. I don't think anybody else could take this shot but him. He is like our best player. Yeah. So I draw the play up and I tell him, you're gonna take this shot? The kid said no. Give it to Nico. I said, no, you're going to take this shot. And then I made the whole team. I asked every player, do you want Martel Marcel to take this shot? They all said yes. They said, Marcel, you could do it. Take this shot. So now at this point I'm invested. If it goes wrong. That's right. I got a lot of cleaning up to do. But everybody said they wanted him to do it right? Yeah. So we could all rally around him if it doesn't work out and I think that's part of it, right? Being a part of a team, we can rally around if it doesn't work out. So I made up, alright Marcel, you're taking this shot. I draw up a play. Marcel gets the ball. Three, two. Shoots the ball hits off the backboard and goes in, we win the game. Marcel Beelines to me, right? And just jumps in my arm like it was the most amazing feeling ever, man. Like I literally to this day, still think about that. Man, like that really changed my life right there. That's the first hit. Yep. That's the first hit of that drug. Yep. Then you just want more and more of it. That is fantastic. That's such a great story because it speaks volumes to where you already were as a coach and understanding your players, understanding the mentality of the game and the emotions that kids are going through and what you saw in this kid and how you wanted to help him take that next step. How old were you? 24. No, I think I, at that time I was probably 31. Were you that old at that? Yeah. But still, man, just to have that thought process to go we're gonna help this kid get to the next level, we're gonna help him get to that next point of where he is as a ball player. That's amazing. Yep. And a kid, Marcel ended up going to, he played well the rest of the year. Of course the bigger club scouted him. Yeah. So Bamberg, which was a Euro League team at that time, ended up scouting him and he I'll never forget this, he came to practice with tears in his eyes because he had to tell me that he was going to bamberg. And he was like, I don't want to go. I'm not going. I'm like, you're definitely going like I whatcha talking about that's conversation. You're doing all this. Exactly. Exactly. No, you're going. Oh, that's great. Speaks vibes to the relationship you built, the trust you built. That's so good. I wanna jump into Drexel a little bit before we talk, go into recruiting. You were a big time division one player played for, Mount Rushmore, coach of division one. What's it been like for you over these last five to six years? Seeing how much has changed with the ncaa, with the portal and NLI? Has it affected your heart at all? In terms of how you go about your business, are you still, I'm talking to coaches that are getting burned out talking to agents. Yeah. I'm talking to coaches that are getting burnout that they, they never know what the roster's gonna look like next year. You jumps through some of those hoops without having any control over it. As a player, what is all this change done to you, if anything? Nothing. I feel like I'm in my element. Yeah. Because. When I stopped playing I started coaching a professional team as well. So I had to, I was basically like the GM of the team. I had to like, talk to agents. I had to fill the emails from the agents. I had to figure out, what our budget looked like in terms of who we would sign, what we would get. And like I worked with the head coach with that in terms of it was only him and I. Yeah, so I had to do everything. So what a great experience. Yeah. It's like right now it's really similar and I learned a lot, I learned a lot about valuing the players that you have, right? I know everybody says that oh, but throughout that experience I learned that like when you look at other players, transfers, they call it in Europe, and players you want, you might wanna sign on your team. You have to first always evaluate the players that you have, right? Because if you can retain the players that you have, that's how you continue to build a good team. Absolutely, yeah. And it, it definitely translates to college basketball. And then you talk about the money and alright, if you have a player that makes X, Y, and Z but he doesn't fit, how can you get a player that just, that's just as good as him or better and maybe get a better player in another position to spend more money sold. Is, I feel like I'm in my element with this one. That's great. Are there changes that need to happen? Are there things that need, you talk, I talk to coaches all the time that always have an opinion on this. Are you seeing something with NIL or the portal that you wish everybody would agree to and it would work this way? Way? Yeah. I think one thing is just the agents. I think the agents need I'm all for kids making money, but I think it has to be some type of. Vetting process for these agents, like I think they need to go through rigorous training and there needs to be some type of licensing for agents. Like you can't just become an agent. Yeah, and it's the same with like with coaches, and that's why I say Germany has one of the best systems. In terms of how they structured youth basketball, it's not connected to the universities, it's all through the club teams. It's not connected to high schools, right? Yes. So it's all about, and to be a coach, like I, I had to go get a license, like a German coach's license. I had to take a course, take a test show that I can do practice on a court, right? I had to go through all this stuff to become a coach. When you think about our system, it's like the Wild West aau. You can you, you take a couple questions, do the USA basketball thing, and you can become a coach on the AAU circuit, but there's no vetting process. And that's the one thing I would change because I think if we don't change it, we're gonna continue to fall behind in terms of, we always have the athleticism, we always have the bodies for it. But the skill and the development and the way we play the game, I think we're falling behind a little bit. Yeah. How much of that is, so many of these schools don't have a consistent culture from year to year now because of all the transfers. Is that affecting the growth of the individual when they're constantly playing for a brand new coach or a brand new system or, a lot of these kids are playing in four schools in, in five years. Is that affecting their ability to develop the way they should be? I don't think so. I know this is not this opinion might not be popular, but I think your environment shapes behavior. So I think the more you're introduced to new environments, just like I was with New Hampshire, just like I was with Panola, just like I was with Texas Tech, like Tennessee State. More you learn about who you are as a person. The more you're, the more adaptable you are to certain situations, right? Yeah. And it goes, it is also good for if you wanna be a professional player, because it's the same system, right? When I came out of college playing pro, I didn't know how to play pick and roll because we played motion. Yeah. Yeah. So it was one system I knew how to play. That's it. But if I played if I played at multiple schools right. Or was ingrained at and when I say play at multiple schools, like at New Hampshire we played pick and roll, but it was one way, right? At Tennessee State, we didn't play, I didn't play at all. At Panola, we ran like a five out system. So I never really got introduced to playing pick and roll. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Wow. Wow. But that's my point though. Yeah. So now I love that perspective though. Yeah. So now it, it makes a lot of sense. It goes back to you were talking about, throwing different cultures and that melting pot into the roster. The more change, the more everybody has to be humble, you have to be vulnerable, you have to figure it out, right? Yep. Yep. Brain has to work faster. Yep. I love that you're throwing into, you have to concentrate. Yeah, I haven't thought about it that way. And I love that perspective, coach. I love it. That's gonna make me think tonight. I'm gonna be up late thinking about that. But there are some aspects of finishing at a university that are beneficial. Like you have a, always have a home. Yeah. They'll take care. Stuff like that. I wish was different, but do you feel like Texas Tech is your alma mater? Do you feel that in your Yeah, for sure. Okay. For sure. Because, I have that, and I feel like there's, when you play at four schools in four years, it's okay where's your love at? It's like dating four girls at the same time. It's yeah. You know who you really getting to know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but tech definitely is, tech is my alma mater. Like it's. Yep. All right. I figured as much. I wanna roll into recruiting with you, but I wanna talk about this a little bit. You've coached some studs. You've coached Bones Highland. You've coached Isaiah Wong. What, and you've seen guys like Hartenstein and you've seen Schroeder at that, when they were young. What separates elite players, guys that can really do it at that D one level have a chance to play? Pro and make money, even though everybody's making money now, but to go and be a pro after college, what separates that elite player from just the good ones in your eyes? I think it's two scales, right? So you have a player that's elite that because the way the NBA is now, I think it's more geared towards development. Yeah. Yeah. So if I take a six nine kid with a seven three wingspan. That can dribble and shoot threes. I feel like I could I think the N NBA's kind of taken those guys to develop them. Yeah. To be good players. But guys like Bones, they, the guys that work really hard to get there. I think the mentality, like just the mental toughness that they have to overcome. I mean think about this bones, when he was a junior going to senior in high school, he jumped out a second story window from a fire. Yeah. He missed his whole senior year. So think about that type of adversity. Yeah. And then two years into your college career, so literally two years later, you're a first round draft pick. Crazy player of the year in the A 10. It's just a different mentality, like Yeah. And that's what I think the difference is with some kids. Some kids are able to lock in, have the self-belief, 'cause that's a huge part of it. Believing in themselves and then they're surrounded by people who also believe in them. Yeah. So it's a lot. It's your environment, it's your mentality and it's if you fit that mold to, to go to that next level. And then we've got guys that were superstars that didn't have anybody to believe in him, had nothing but adversity. And had to figure out how to believe in themselves. Yeah, for sure. Or, yep. Yeah. It's just the look at any NBA, any NFL draft man, any major league baseball draft, and you look back the last 10 years, nobody knows how to pick that league kid. Nobody does. May, maybe three or four guys will hit the first round, but it's amazing how many guys hit round two. Yep. Football round six. Six, six round baseball, the 13th round. I love that. I love that idea. And it comes down to having the right coach. You look at these kids that had you in Germany. They might have gone the other way. They might have never blossomed if they wouldn't have had you to inspire them and teach them and give them the opportunity they had. So that's some cool stuff. And a lot of 'em are still playing. I think it's like there's seven or eight of 'em that are playing professional right now, so That's cool. It's pretty cool. And these are kids that couldn't dribble with their left hand. They played football, soccer all the time, right? Yeah. It is just development, like developing the kid holistically. As it's just something that's special, man, I think it's really important that as coaches we try to do that and in, in recruiting, like you said, like the ones that are obvious are easy. Yeah. Yeah. Stevie Warner can see them, but if you have a kid that has potential to be special. That's where I think separates the evaluation and recruiting. Yeah. What can they be in one year, two years from now? Yeah, even three years from now. What are they gonna look like three years from now? Yeah. Evaluation isn't what today. It's the projection of what down the road. Absolutely. Coach, this has been a joy. If you've got the time, I'd like to take about 10, 15 minutes, talk some recruiting with you at that, at your level. And yep. We'll come back and do segment two here. But thanks for doing this today, man. It was a lot fun. No, no problem. I appreciate it, man. For sure. I. That was Will Chavis, assistant men's basketball coach at Drexel University, and what a conversation it was. What stands out to me the most about Will isn't just that he was Bobby Knight's first recruit at Texas Tech, or that he's coached at every level and played professionally, or that he's even helped develop NBA players. It's his heart. It's his ability to take everything he's learned, the good, the heart, and the humbling, and pour it back into the people he leads. He's proof that the best coaches are still students. Students of the game, students of life, and students of the people they serve. And I think that's what makes him so special. Will's story reminds us that leadership isn't about control or credit. It's about consistency and humility and impact. If you enjoyed today's episode, I'd love for you to subscribe, rate, and please leave a comment. I wanna know how this is going for you. Do you want changes? Do you want more? Do you want less? I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know. Any feedback is good feedback. It really helps others find the show as well, and keeps these conversations going. You can also learn more about my work from my recruiting books and journals to classes and speaking engagements@coachmattrogers.com and don't miss part two of my conversation with Coach Chavis this Monday on the Significant Recruiting podcast where we go even deeper into recruiting, philosophy, player development, and what young athletes need to hear most right now. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control. Stay humble and keep chasing significance.