Episode #133: Bet Naumovski on Recruiting

🎙️  What Division II Coaches Really Look For: Recruiting with Bet Naumovski 🏀

In Part 2 of this conversation, Matt Rogers sits down with world-class coach Bet Naumovski to unpack what NCAA Division II coaches are truly looking for in the recruiting process.

Drawing from decades of experience building championship teams at Queens College, Bet offers an honest, behind-the-scenes look at how Division II recruiting really works—why fit matters more than flash, how coaches evaluate potential beyond stats, and what recruits and families often misunderstand about opportunities at this level.

Bet also shares her lifelong commitment to advocating for equity in women’s sports and how that perspective shapes the way she recruits, develops, and supports student-athletes. This episode provides clarity, perspective, and practical guidance for anyone navigating the college basketball recruiting journey.

To go deeper, you can find Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes and the companion Basketball Recruit’s Journal at CoachMattRogers.com—tools designed to help recruits stay organized, intentional, and confident throughout the process.

Transcript

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Welcome back to The Significant Coaching Podcast. This is our recruiting segment. I'm your host, Matt Rogers. In today's episode, I'm joined by world class coach BET Naski for part two of our conversation. This time focused on the realities and opportunities with an NCAA division two recruiting. Bette has evaluated thousands of athletes built championship level teams, and helped young women find the right fit both on the court and in the classroom. Just as importantly, she has spent her career advocating for equity in women's sports, pushing for opportunity, respect, and resources for female student athletes at every level. Before we dive in, a quick reminder you can find my book significant Recruiting the playbook for prospective college athletes, along with my new companion workbook, the Basketball recruits journal@coachmattrogers.com. Both are designed to help student athletes stay organized, intentional, and confident throughout the recruiting journey. Let's get into part two with my good friend, coach Bette Nki. Let's talk a little recruiting,'cause you were really good at it and you were in the recruiting capital of the world for a decade and a half. And you're from Toronto, so you understand. You know how great athletes can be all in one region. And you talked about in the first segment, when you're in Queens, you don't have to go too far to find really good basketball. Every university in New York doesn't have to go more than about 30 miles to be able to fill the roster if they wanted to. Agreed. And I, and that was one of the things that made Queens attractive and kept me there for a while, is. It's nice being in the mecca of basketball for a number of reasons, but there's a lot of talent. A lot of talent. Did you ever worry about the culture? When there were too many kids from the city, too many New York City kids that maybe they all had that same mindset. Did you get to that point where you're like, I need to pull out of different areas. I need to, I need more diversity in terms of what my, how my roster's built. Did that ever work? So that's a, that's an interesting question. When I started at Queens that was my goal when I got there was, I inherited a team of players who all knew each other before they got to Queens, right? Either they played on the same AAU team, or they played against each other in AAU or in high school. And I realized that year that I didn't like that. I didn't like that because it was just too. I don't know, cliquey and they knew all of the players on the other teams and I thought, this isn't a true college experience. And what I remember about being an athlete that I really liked was meeting, like people on my team weren't all from Toronto. There was a handful from Toronto and most were within, I would say, four or five. Hour drive, but still they grew up in a different city, in a different culture. And to me that was a big part of my university experience that I liked a lot. And I still to this day, really enjoy meeting people from other cities, other cultures, learning from and experiencing it. Because again, you could take a couple things. And as a student, I felt I learned a lot. Like I thought that the way I grew up in Toronto was the way that everybody grew up everywhere in every city. And then I realized, oh, that's not how everybody grows up. Yeah. But I liked that it, it challenged me as a person and it was part of, my growth experience as a student. And when I got to Queens, I thought, okay, I gotta change this. I gotta, have a couple of New York City kids and a couple from upstate. I do think that was a good thing. And then, again, times changed, pandemic hit, during the pandemic, immediately after pandemic, I found that people weren't wanting to go that far from home. There was still that fear of what was going on, and I think families didn't want to have their, sons and daughters go too far. So I found that, we the New York City kids were more attractive to the school than before. So that kind of evolved. But when I could be deliberate about it, I, that was important to me is to diversify who we had. And the other reason is, it's interesting because each city pocket plays basketball a little differently. Does it? So if you're in, if you're in New York City, like everybody drives the ball, everyone wants to play off the dribble, everyone can get to the rim. If you go to upstate New York. Everybody wants to shoot the three. They're pretty good at it. And other areas I thought did have that better understanding of team concepts and team play. And I started to look at it that way'cause I thought I,'cause one when outta the pandemic, we were very New York City heavy for the reason that I said, and I thought, man, we don't have enough shooters on this team. Let me go upstate because they're everywhere upstate. So yes, I was definitely deliberate about the region or city that I was recruiting. Did you find yourself thinking about some of that too when you were putting kids together as roommates? Because I always, yes. I loved if I had a city kid and a small town kid, yes. If I could get them together just to see if magic could happen, yeah. I was more focused on personalities. But when I could do that have kid from one sitting, kid from another, put it together, I absolutely did. My first focus was always. Again, you can't put a neat person with a messy person'cause that's not gonna work. No matter. No matter what. So I tried to focus on personalities and then again, if I could do that I would absolutely do that. How did you find out those things? Did you do a survey with your incoming newbies? How did you know there were No, it was just a recruiting process. Okay. And, I feel like it might be a little more, might be different for guys, I don't know, I ask a lot of questions'cause I'm a, I'm an inquisitive person to begin with, right? So with recruiting, it's just those conversations and once they commit and they're going through the process the kids who, Hey, I need this. I gotta get it to admissions by Friday and have it to me the next day. I knew tend to be the neat kids, right? They need their ducks in a row. So I was like, okay, they'll, these are the options of players who could be together, right? And the kids who I was like, I need it by Friday, and they'd get it to me, I need it Friday at five. They got it to me at 4 59. That's another kind of kid you're gonna meet the timeline, but you're probably more laissez-faire. And I thought she may not be that organized in her room. I love that it, it just makes you wonder if I had to go back and do it again, would I do a little bit of that survey to figure that out and then you can get, then you can get creative with how you wanna, yes. How you wanna break through their insecurities, and listen, if I had a kid who I knew was organizationally a disaster, I made sure that she was gonna be with someone who was relatively organized to keep her on track and make sure that she's on time for meetings and practice. Yeah. So you are right. You definitely think about all those things. Maybe they'll rub off on each other, yes. Rub off and, yeah. Or she could say come on, you gotta go. We're gonna be, five minutes late. And if she goes, what? What's the big deal? Then hopefully that person would explain why it is a big deal. That's right. All right. Let's get in, let's get into Coach Bet, the evaluator. You're sitting on the court, you and I are watching a club game. What are some of the things that jump out to you as green flags? You're like, I need more of that. I wanna see more of this kid. Are there things that you're drawn to? So first again, it's what hole do you have to fill? What's the piece of the puzzle that you're looking for? But one of the one for sure is does that person have a motor? Are they constantly in motion? So are they, do they have that motor transitioning from offense to defense? Defense to offense? Do they instinctually go for offensive rebounds, making those extra effort placed, because that's also telling me that person is in shape. You can't play with a motor if your fitness isn't high. So that kind of tackled two things competitiveness.'cause I feel like that is a trait, a skill that is getting a little bit lost. So people who hate to lose, because if you hate to lose, then you're gonna be, I think, proactive about figuring out solutions for how to win. I was at a coaching clinic once and Rick Jeris was the speaker, and I asked him, what are the things that you think that, you either have or you don't, things that you think that you can't coach like that kid either has it or not. And he actually gave me a really good answer, and I've always had in the back of my mind. He said, hands touch, feel. He's either you have good hands or you don't. And I found that he's absolutely right about that. Isn't that the case? Yeah. Yeah. Like again, you can improve it to a certain point, but it's always gonna be a deficiency. Then the other one that he said, which we already talked about was, your decision making. Either you make good decisions or you don't. And again, you can improve to a certain extent, but that ability to see the game. So I do look at that. If someone has bad hands, I probably go, oh, I'm gonna stay away from her. And then I absolutely do look at decision making does she know what the right pass was? What the right play was? Yeah. Does she take good shots? And then the other one. Which again, I think is super important and these people stick out more than ever is the kids who communicate. Because before everyone did to a certain extent, but now a kid talks and or lead, like God forbid somebody would lead. You circle that name right off the bat and you're like, I lead her. Whoa. Let me see if she could play. Yeah. So those are things that I think differentiate. Players from others right now. So I'm definitely looking at those things. And then I would say potential, and I think that was one of the areas that I felt like I was really good at is I is finding, looking at somebody and going, okay, she's not quite there, but there's a lot there that if I just tweak, I actually think she could be really good. Yeah. So I thought we were really good about finding kind of the diamonds in the rough and I love it. And often they did really well. I'm interested motor shape, competitiveness, touch hands, decision making, communication, and potential. Is love of the game in there at all in terms of do one of those? Yeah, so I would equate to love of the game. So I would, I put that into competitiveness. That's what I wrote down. That's what I wanna do. Like the kids who are competitive. Nowadays. I find that kids play, it's changing a little bit, but they don't play with the same outward emotion. Yeah. Like they don't fist pump and high five and celebrate as much as they used to. Yeah. I do think that's changing a little bit because of social media and what's people are. Putting out there or highlighting. Yeah. But I think, yeah, what they're highlighting. Good word. I and I,'cause I feel like when you love the game, you are not afraid to let everybody in the gym know that you love the game. Your face shows it, your body language shows it, your competitive spirit shows it. So a hundred percent absolutely. Like I do look at how animated. Is that person when they play, and again, they don't have to be the loudest person in the gym or chest bumping or whatever. Yeah. In your own way, you celebrate when good things on the court happen. Yeah. And you know what, you get disappointed. There's, it's a difference between hanging your head because you've made a mistake and you can't move on. And it's a different than clapping your hands and being upset that you just turned the ball over. But then, hey you get down and now you're like, I'm gonna make a play. I'm gonna get a steal For me, I think my love of the game came out on the defensive side of the floor. I loved stopping, shutting down the other team's point guard. I just I loved it. I loved making a great pass where one of my teammates got an easy score. I created something simple for them that they could get a bucket, and I love shutting down. The other teams guard are, do you see that when you step on the floor, is there something where you're like, gosh, that's the competitiveness, that's the love of the game. I want more of that. So I think yes. And I think one of them for me is also I do look at, are you afraid of the moment Uhhuh? Yes. Because I do find that, a lot of kids are afraid. They're afraid to make mistakes, so they tend to play in a safe area. Yeah. So are you afraid of the moment? There was a kid that I recruited very recently and it was a big New York City event here, live, DJ, lighting show, everything. And I look, I watched her play and we were recruiting her. When I watched her play in that event and she ended up getting player of the game, she was not the best player on the team. There were multiple players who went and played division one at Good schools. Big division one schools. Yeah. But she was the player of the game because she was the leading scorer. She got a couple steals and she looked like she does in every single other game, like was relaxed, calm, stepped to the free throw line, knocked her free throws down. I thought, not afraid of the moment. And that's a big deal because I'm hoping that we're gonna be in situations where we're playing in playoff games and in, in hostile environments. And it's, you're gonna focus on, again, you're focused on what do I need to do to win instead of what happens if I make a mistake? All these people are watching me. And that's the difference, right? If you're playing afraid to make a mistake, then you're not playing to win. You're just playing to not make mistakes. Yeah. If you are focused on winning, then you're focused on making the plays that it will allow the team to win. I find that is becoming more and more of an issue because I find that anxiety levels that is a real problem right now in, in college athletics. Again, that's the world that I was in, college athletics, so every year I felt like that was a bigger problem than it was the year before. Is the level of anxiety that these kids have on game day. And who they were in practice and who they were when the parents showed up and the referees and the other team was so dramatically different and sometimes very hard to watch as a coach. Very sad to watch. Yeah. I was that kid. Yeah. I, and I still, to this day, I don't understand it. I don't understand why I could be so free and loose 99% of the time, and then 1% of the time. It wasn't there for me. I couldn't find it. Is there a difference, coach between not afraid of the moment and rising to the occasion? Because you talked about this kid that the occasion was huge and she stayed the same. Is there a difference between not being afraid and then rising the occasion? I do. We had a player, I'm gonna, I'll name her name, Bria Jackson who I enjoyed coaching so much, and I've never coached a player who made so many big plays when we needed a big play. So she played every game. Unafraid. Yeah. Unafraid. If I was like, this is what they're doing, you need to shoot the three. Okay, I'll shoot. So she wasn't focused on missing or what if I miss, or what if I, she never thought that way. It was just. I need to do this. I need to get a steal, I need to get a make, I need to get a, so always focused on what she needed to do. So always unafraid. But then there were games and that year we were about a 500 team. That was my second year. We were a 500 team. And so we were in a lot of close games and I just don't know anyone who hit more buzzer beaters than her to win us a game and. Just, she was on, she was actually on SportsCenter top 10 for hitting a buzzer feeder, sending us into double overtime. So there, there are, and but that ability to rise to the occasion, I think I maybe coached two, maybe three people in over 20 years of coaching who could really do that. Yeah. It's such a special gift. I just, I remember my, that group we were talking about earlier, you had your four or five, I had my four or five, I had a Matt Regan. He was just never afraid of the moment. It didn't matter if it was start of the game or lend the game. He was gonna be that guy. But then I had another his partner guard on the other side of the floor was Ben Hebel. And Ben, just, when it was time to hit the big shot, or take the big shot, he wanted it. It was disappointed if he didn't get that. So I, it is just I think kids need to understand when we're out recruiting, we're watching those things. We're watching what your shoulders are doing and what your head, what your eyes are doing in those crucial moments. How are you reacting when there's a minute left and you gotta step up the line and make a free throw, and you're down water, down to, what is that? Yeah, I'm gonna say like you probably noticed that when you asked me things I look for, I didn't name one thing that involves skill, right? Because I think that you can teach that. I agree. Like I, I can teach you how to be a better shooter. I can teach you how to finish around the rim better. And obviously I, that's part of it. Hey we need a shooter next year, so I'm gonna be looking for the shooter. But there's a lot of shooters out there. So the skill is that's just the beginning of it. I'm truly trying to look for things that I can teach or I can't, or I, you can teach it, but by the time you really are good at it, it might be in your senior year. Yeah. And I don't have four years to wait for you to be better at that'cause some things really do take. Just years before you're average at it. Yes. Yeah. Is there an overrated skill in recruiting? What a great question. They're an overrated skill. I don't think so, because I think everything comes down to a coach's philosophy. This, these are my philosophies. But another coach is gonna say there are some coaches who think the exact opposite of me. Yeah. Who think like I, I don't wanna have to teach any of that. I want you to be ready to shoot the ball when you come in. Yeah. I don't wanna have to teach you how to finish around the rim. I need you to, I just talked to Heather Macy. That was Heather Macy. She I don't wanna, I don't wanna, if I have to teach you how to get better at that, then I'm gonna find somebody else. But I also feel like that's the level of play. If you're at division one, I do think that like you gotta be ready, you do, like division two, I understand that I'm gonna be probably doing a little bit more teaching from skill standpoint than a division one coach. So I don't wanna sit here and say that any skill is overrated.'cause I think that comes to a coach's philosophy. And there's a coach who's gonna see it that way, that your skill is. Valuable and that's what they're most focused on. There's a lot of coaches who say I don't wanna have to teach or coach any of the off the course stuff. I'm just going to focus on the basketball stuff. Yeah. And listen I wish that was my philosophy'cause I would probably sleep a lot better and not be so stressed out. Yeah. But I do feel the, what I am doing ultimately is preparing these young people for life after sport. I do. Yeah. And I think the more we have these conversations, the more you realize who you are. Yeah. Because those are the things that always come back up. You and I are teachers, we got into this not to win championships. I wanna teach kids how to work together so they can win a championship together. Yeah. We have the same goal, but I love the teaching side. I love when the light bulb goes off. Me too. Me too. Is there an underrated skill? That players need to be thinking about when coaches are out recruiting, is there something that they don't put enough time into? So I think it's communication and leadership. I do, because I think that, those are the two of the weakest areas of athletics right now. Is we used to do a lot, we tried to do as much team building stuff as we possibly could, and we used to bring the Marines in at the beginning of the year to do some team building and some leadership training. And one of the things that, that the captain said to me, because they're, listen, they're seeing the same issues trying to train, cadets, and they, he said, this generation they wanna lead as a pack. They're reluctant to step away from the pack and lead. And he said that to me and I thought a lot about it. And I thought, I think we're experiencing the same thing in athletics. Yeah. And there's just a greater fear than I think there's ever been before. And I think social media has a lot to do with it because we, there's a lot of bullying, a lot of shaming, and people are afraid to step out from the group and speak their mind because they're afraid of. What's that going to lead to? People talking about me not liking me, posting this on social media about me. And he said the problem when you try to lead as a PAC is you can't see the direction that you're going in'cause you're amongst the pac. Someone has to step away from the PAC and see the big picture and know where you're leading to. And I do think that there's not a lot of or that kids are. Reluctant to lead. They really are reluctant to step away from the group and fitting in and belonging. Although we all listen, we matter. We cared about that as well. Obviously, growing up you wanted to fit in. You wanted to belong, but I feel like that's become a bigger goal for them than it ever has been in the past. And I think because of the social media, people will put on a post about them. So I do think that leadership and communication is now a skill that will separate you from your peers very quickly. I agree. The metaphor that popped in my head is the conductor of an orchestra. I might be the greatest violist in the world, and I might be frustrated that guy or gal conduct conducting us and leading us maybe isn't as good as I am. It's the courage that it takes to lead that group right is so hard and so hard to find. And I think of the Michael Fastbender, Steve Jobs movie. I thought they did such a great, I don't know if you watch that. No, it's worth your time.'cause they did such a great job of pinpointing why Steve Jobs. Was so great at what he did. He wasn't a great coder, he wasn't a great, great with mechanics, but it's, it was his vision and being able to explain his vision and help others get there. And to me, that's the greatest sign of any coach. Yeah, you imagine and you can explain it and get everybody on board to get there. But that's that, again, it's that again, that's what we talk about, anxiety and it's what's your motivation? Yeah. Are you, is your motivation the fear of failure? So I'm doing this because I'm afraid that if I fail, this is gonna be, or is my motivation, the will, the want to achieve my goal. And not, kids don't understand enough that you're gonna be on two different pathways and one is way more enjoyable than the other. When I'm motivated for, when I'm focused on what I want rather than what I want to avoid, yeah, I will enjoy sports so much better. Because my experience is more of a positive experience.'cause I'm always thinking about how am I gonna win? How am I gonna achieve, how am I going to, and yes, it's a grind, it's difficult, but when my motivation is just focused on not failing, not, it's just negative, right? Because your motivation is what you don't want to see happen versus, so you're either chasing what you want to see happen or running away from what you don't want to see happen, right? Running towards something is a much more enjoyable than running away from it. And I, listen, I've talked to my teams about that and I think that sometimes what's happening with the transfer portal? Are you going in the transfer portal'cause you're running away from something, or are you going into the portal because you're running towards something? So when I give the example of, my student who decided to go in at least she was running towards something. She was running towards her dream. Yeah. If you go in it because, hey coach wants me to play defense here and I'm not a defensive guy. Yeah. Guess what? There's no coach who's gonna ever say, don't worry about defense over here like you, you can't outrun it. So I do think that makes a big difference in the experience that you have through athletics. Are you running towards something or are you running away from something? That's why I'm gonna keep pushing you to get back on the sideline sooner rather than that right there. Thanks, coach. I love that. And when you need an assistant, you just holler and I'll come running deal. I'll follow you wherever you go. You've given me so much time today. Give parents a piece of advice who've got a teenager going through the recruiting journey. W what's the one thing that you think they need to be focusing on? I think it's hard to say one thing, but if I was to say one thing, it would be drown out the noise. Because every when your child has a talent. Everybody has an opinion on what they should do with that talent, where they should bring it, what they should do, where they should go, and it can be a distraction. So people's motivation is obviously to help, but in the end I think it becomes a distraction and I think that you lose yourselves in the process. Finding that balance of drowning out the noise and sticking to what matters to you as a family. And don't look to the right and don't look to the left about, this person did this, and my son or daughter is better, so they need to do equal or more. It's not about that at all, but people easily make it about that. And if so, I think drown out the noise. Stay true to your family's values and. Choose the school that really values your son or daughter and sees them as an important part of that team. Not in a year or two. You're gonna develop into the starting point or the back. Like where does, where's the right fit? And I think too many families jump at. The first highest offer. So for example, I am being recruited by mid-majors, but One Power Five school jumped in, so I'm gonna go there.'cause it's the higher school, you're probably a mid-major person. That's where most of your recruiting happens. So you're probably a mid-major. That's right. So I just really think that a lot of stuff is being distorted and lost in all of this. I do think at the end of the day, after four years, what you remember is the relationships that you built in those four years as a student. I still talk to my mentor. Yeah. It's 30 years later and I don't know where I'd be without her. Yeah. But that would be my biggest advice is out the noise. Do your research. Choose the school that is the right fit. And feels right for the family and maintain your family values through this process. Would you change that advice if I told you're talking to 16 and 17 year olds instead of parents, or would you come at a different angle? I think that those 16 and 17 year olds have more voice, more voices at them than the parents do because their peers are, and everybody, and. They also need to do their research. They have to ask questions, and this generation asks less questions in the process than they used to. And they need to ask the questions that are important to them, not because, Hey, my friend went on a visit and they asked these questions, so that sounds good. So I'm gonna ask them. You have to come up with a set of questions as a family that's gonna allow you to decide that this is the right fit for my student. And I will also say, and I know that people are gonna disagree with this, but you're asking me, so I'm gonna give my opinion, if you're going into a school with the notion that I'm gonna go there with the plan to jump in the portal after a year. I don't like that plan at all. I think, I don't think it's fair to the coaches who are recruiting you, who genuinely believe in your child, and if that's what you wanna do as a family.'cause that's what's important to you, then at least tell that to the coach. Yeah. Hey, like how do you feel about, I would ask that question. How do you feel about students who just come to your school for one year because they want to,'cause guess what? There are some coaches will say, doesn't bother me at all. I just wanna win. And there are other coaches who will say, I really want this to be a four year a, a four year relationship. I'd love to work with you for four years. You've gotta be transparent in the questions that you're asking, but you also have to be transparent if you have to answer, when coaches ask you questions, parents and student, you have to be honest. Because that's where the headbutting happens in your first freshman year. Because coaches quickly realize I thought you were a because you told me that you were A, but you're B and now I don't like it, and now I'm giving you consequences. And yeah, but if you would've just told me,'cause hey, listen I really wanted my kids to get into the gym. Get we have a gun. It's over$10,000. Use it, please. That's right. You could use it whenever you want, but get on the gun. And then you she's a gym rat coach. You'll have to kick her out. Okay. By the end of the year, I can count how many times she shot on the machine in one hand. That's right. That's a stickler for me. So guess what? I'm gonna be constantly on you about that, and I can't imagine that's gonna be fun for you. Yeah, it's so I think that honesty and transparency is super important, not just for the coaches, but for the student, the athlete, and the parents as well. I totally agree. There's a great quote from Ted Lasso where he says, be curious, not judgmental. We, you gotta go into every situation going, how could this make my life better? Yeah. It may be hard, it may be a hard path to that, but I see how this can help me with some of the things I don't have right now. May I'm, I don't think I'm ready to be an adult. Is this person in front of me? Can they help me become that adult and help me get over some of these insecurities? That's a really good point though, Matt, is I think that you also, first of all, I do think that as a family, once you realize this is what you wanna do and schools are starting to show interest, I do think that you have to have conversations as a family. Agreed. And I think one of the conversations to be had is what do. What do when it's all said and done after four years, when we look back, what do we hope was accomplished from those four years? Is it that I want my son or daughter to, to be ready for the real world or is it that, listen, the financial piece is the most important piece to us. We wanna make sure that we are not in debt after this. It's your journey. It's your thing As a family, I'm not here to judge you. If that's where your values are, that's what you, that's what it is. But get on the same page with that and then make sure that you're being transparent about that with the coaches who are recruiting you.'cause like I said, many times in this. This is just my opinion, but there's a coach who has the exact opposite opinion than me. So you might not be the player for me, but that doesn't mean that you're not the right player for anybody, right? It's just you're not the right fit for me, just as I am. Not for you. But there is going to be a coach out there who says, I don't care that person doesn't talk as long as they defend and they do things right. Yeah. So if you're honest about all of that, then you're, you are gonna find the right coach for you and the right school for you and the right fit, and probably not wanna jump into the transfer portal. It's, and maybe I'm just too old school. Maybe the game has passed me by, but I look at recruiting as a marriage, those points you just made. If I'm getting married thinking well, I can always go get a divorce attorney. You've got one leg out the door already. This isn't somebody you care about and wanna spend the life with, and if I'm gonna go after a coach or a school and I wanna play for them, I want to go in it saying, I wanna be with you. As long as I can be with you. I'm committing to you because I see something special that I wanna be a part of every day. As a coach, I'm saying that, and as a student athlete, I need to say that I wanna be a part of that journey. And that's why, for all the families I, I talk to, I don't take many honest clients because there's too often I don't feel that, I don't feel like you're in this for the right reasons. I'm not the right coach for you if you don't want this to be a great educational experience for you. Yeah. And I think the other is what? What kind of, because I think this is important to discuss as a family, but also discuss to the coaches, what type of relationship do you want with that college coach? That's right, because that has changed as well over time. In the past the student athletes looked at us more as. Mentors they would ask you for advice about life advice, and I think more and more it's become transactional. I hate to say that. Yeah. But if you are, but it's not for everybody, right? Like for me, again, I got into this because I genuinely wanna help students and hopefully try to provide them with the transformational experience. And I know that's becoming harder and harder, but that's who I am. And I can't be something that I'm not. It's important to me to find students who are like, when I come here, that's what's important to me is that I learn and I grow as a human being, and I think that coach is gonna help me do that. If you are kinda like, I really don't care about having a relationship with my coach. I just want to play. I'm not judging you, I'm just not the coach for you. Yeah. But there is one for you. There is someone who's also Hey, I just wanna win games and if you can help me win games, you're gonna be on the court. I know you could win a championship at the D one level, but I'm not sure. You weren't born to be a D three coach. I, because I think all the things you speak of, I think that's still there, where it's gotten and lost to D one and D two, that love of the game and love of the relationships and kids that wanna play for the right reasons. And, I'm still a believer that D three is hanging on to that, and I hope they don't lose that. I agree. So I agree, coach, thank you so much for your time. Just an honor to talk to you and a great pleasure to call you a friend and I wish we would've talked more these last 12 years, but I wish you well and I'll be cheering for you wherever you go. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for the opportunity and likewise, I have a ton of respect for you. So I enjoy the conversation very much. Thank you so much. And that's a wrap on part two of my conversation with Coach Bet Naski her insight into NCAA division two recruiting. Her commitment to equity in women's sports and her care for the people behind the process are reminders that recruiting is about far more than offers and rosters. It's about fit opportunity and long-term growth. And it doesn't really matter what division level you wanna play at. If today's episode help bring some clarity to your recruiting journey, please follow, rate and share the podcast on whatever platform you're listing on. And don't forget, you can find significant recruiting the playbook for prospective college athletes and the basketball recruits journal@coachmattrogers.com and@amazon.com. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control. Stay humble and keep chasing significance.