Episode #154: Katelyn Smith

🎙 Katelyn Smith on Leadership, Culture, and Why Division II Works (Part 1) 

What does real leadership look like at the NCAA Division II level?

In Part 1 of this Significant Coaching conversation, Adams State University Athletic Director Katelyn Smith shares her journey from assistant coach to AD—and the mindset that has helped her build a culture where more than 500 student-athletes and their coaches can thrive.

Katelyn brings a refreshing honesty and energy to her role. She talks about what it really takes to lead a small-college athletic department, why hiring for fit matters more than a résumé, and how Adams State has created sustained success by focusing on hard work, relationships, and doing more with what you have.

You’ll also hear why she believes small campuses and rural communities create powerful opportunities for growth, accountability, and connection—and why Division II may be the best-kept secret in college athletics.

In this episode:

• Leadership lessons from the AD chair
• Building culture that supports coaches and student-athletes
• Hiring strategies and what ADs really look for
• The reality of small-school athletics
• Why Division II offers a unique and meaningful experience

Part 2 will dive into Division II recruiting, the transfer portal, and NIL.

Learn more about Katelyn Smith at https://asugrizzlies.com/staff-directory/katelyn-smith/1231

Transcript

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On the latest edition of The Significant Coaching Podcast, a presentation of the coach Matt Rogers YouTube channel. Also available audio only everywhere you get your favorite podcast. I'm your host Matt Rogers, and today I'm bringing you part one on my conversation with Kaitlyn Smith, the director of athletics at NCAA division two. Adam State University in Colorado in the highly competitive Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference or the Armac. I love talking with Caitlyn. She has a raw energy about her, and I mean that 100% in a good way. She's honest. She's humble, and she has that rare mix of confidence and care that you can feel immediately. Kaitlyn understands that her biggest job, and she has many. Is to create an environment where her athletes and her coaches can be the best versions of themselves. And the thing I respect most about her, she speaks with complete conviction about Adam State and Alamosa being small. She doesn't try to spin it, she doesn't apologize for it. She sees it as an opportunity because in a small town, you're known, you're connected and you're accountable. And as she puts it, people wave at you. People remember your name, and if you're wearing Adam State gear around town, you represent something bigger than yourself. Kaitlyn's leadership story is also one I think a lot of listeners will connect with because she didn't follow some perfect linear path. She started as an assistant coach, moved into the business side as an athletic department business manager, and then she stepped into the ad chair right in the middle of COVID. And her mindset is as real as it gets. You get thrown in the fire, you figure it out and you run with the opportunity. That's leadership, that's growth. And that's the kind of learn it by living it journey. So many coaches and administrators understand. Throughout this conversation, you'll hear her talk about what people don't see. The compliance rule books, the other duties assigned reality of the job, the deadlines that show up out of nowhere, and the constant need to rely on people across campus to make college athletics run and run efficiently. She'll also tell you why she's obsessed with fit when hiring coaches, why authenticity matters in a cover letter, why she values fundraising and creativity, and why she'd rather build something with the right person than chase a resume that just looks good on paper. And then there's her culture. She wants loud hallways. She wants real relationships. She wants coaches who bring solutions, not complaints. She believes division two can be the most sane division right now. Still competitive, still scholarship opportunities, but with a real commitment to the student athlete experience where people know your name. The gym is packed and the community is invested. This is leadership the way it's supposed to be. Work hard, treat people with respect and put the best people in the right positions to create something special for the student athletes going through their college journey. So here's part one with Caitlyn Smith. Athletic director at Adams State University and make sure you come back for part two on Monday because we're gonna dive into recruiting division two, recruiting the NCAA transfer portal, NIL, and the real world challenges athletic leaders are navigating every day. Let's get into it. Here's Caitlin Smith. Kailyn, so great to see you. Thanks for being on the show and talking to us about Adam State and NCAA division two. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. I love the transition that you've done in your career.'cause I was kinda like that. I was a teacher and a high school coach and then I moved up to college and then I moved up to ad and it, it takes so many bumps in the road to kinda learn how to do everything. And I was a head coach and I don't think anybody ever taught me how to be a head coach then. I was an AD and nobody taught me how to be an ad. You just have to figure some things out. When you went through your transition, you were a cis coach, then you were the business manager for athletics, then your athletic director. How has that full circle journey shaped the leader you are today? Yeah, I know, I think you hit on a really good point. It's definitely all about figuring it out. And I think that it's something where an opportunity was given. Um. It was there and it's how you just run with it and yeah, figure it out, get thrown in the fire. And so I think that's something that has really shaped me to where I am today. Coming in at a time that was as difficult of taking over during COVID ultimately, which, I already don't know what I'm doing now. You've got this layer on top of it, so it's like an extra wait, what am I doing? But that has actually helped me in a lot of ways to where now I'm like, what? There's nothing I can't handle. That's kinda the attitude that I've tried to have for sure. You know those challenges that come to you and you're like. We were able to make it this far and make it through everything there. Try to attack everything I can head on. And that's helped me develop to where I am and who I am today. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing how many things you have to do on a daily, weekly, monthly, annual basis as an ad that nobody gets to see. I remember taking over Maryville's ad job in 2000 and. I don't even remember in 2003. And our four year NCAA study was due like in three months. Oh, yeah. And the president goes, we need to get this done. And I go, I don't even know what this is. I never heard of it before. And I dove in and it was like 160 pages. I had to get everybody on campus involved and get data and stats. What has been some of the big things that you've had to learn about athletics and NCAA athletics that maybe would surprise people about your job? Yeah, I think it, a lot of times in my job I say, you never know what you're gonna get. You have a compliance, rule book for example. You have everything that the NCA says. I feel like, yes, that is there. But so many other things. It's like when you have a job description and it's like other duties as a sign that is I feel like literal in this role. I just think, being an ad. It's your, you have your hand in everything and that oversight of everything. Right? And so for me, coming up on the business side of things, and that was really only for, a couple of years. So fortunately I learned a lot there because I had a great ad that over, saw and he was at, he allowed me to just do, which helped me figure things out. But then coming into the ad role you've got you're a compliance person coming to you and they're asking you questions and you're like. Okay. Yep. And we're just gonna have to figure this out. And so I do think that, like only coming up in the one route was definitely something to where I've had challenges with some of the other areas and figuring it out. And then that could go into how you have to hire the right people in those roles and let those people do, I don't want to be a compliance officer. No, thank you. So I'm gonna hire somebody that's gonna be, good in that role. And so I think just thinking about, it's funny'cause you'll get emails from, the NCA at a conference and they're like. Oh, this is due on this date. And you're like, okay, all right. We're gonna, we're gonna figure this out so I can totally understand the reporting and then getting the people involved. And I think something that's really cool about this is you don't realize how many people have a play in keeping college athletics running. You had mentioned going across campus, all the different people you're having to get involved. Like we cannot. Function without them, especially at such a small school like ours. And so I think that's another big thing is when something where we see something or it feels like a challenge it's that reassurance that we know we're not alone in this because of that support and that small, tight-knit community we have here it's important to me. It's why I do the podcast. It's why I write every week and why I do, everything that I do. And my side of this now is not only coaching parents and teenagers on that transition to college, but also I do a lot of executive coaching with coaches who just, they're struggling, they're fighting through this or that. They're trying to figure out who they are and who they wanna be. Just as much as these families and kids are. What role do you feel like you're responsible for in, in terms of just coaching your coaches and making sure they can be the best version of themselves for all your kids At Adam State? No, it's a, that's a really good question and something that I. I try to take a lot of pride in because I think, my job is to take care of all of our student athletes, right? I can't sit there and be there for all 500 plus of them. I can be there as much as I can, but it's impossible to do that. So then I need to make sure I'm hiring the right people in those roles to then take care of those student athletes. Parents are trusting us with their kids, and so it's so important that we find the right people. And I think part of that is. How I figured out who I am as a leader, who I am as a person, and then what I wanna instill in our coaches. And I think what we've really laid our hat on here is that sort of hard work, blue collar work ethic, right? So we're gonna get kids that can come in here that they can work hard. They're gonna have to grind. Adam states a grind. We're a small tight community, right? We're very rural there. There's nothing, there's really not a lot to do around here. Nothing to do on the weekends. So if you come here, you're gonna be focused in and do your sport. Becomes your job. And so I think like when I bring in coaches, like one, that's what I look for in our coaches. We may not always have, coaches with all the experience or all, head coaching experience here and here. But I like to see those young hungry coaches because I feel like I see that within our athletes. So young, hungry athletes that just wanna get better. And so when it comes to. We work hard around here. That's something that we'll always hang our hat on. We have, it's always like that, having respect for each other and then just having a great working environment. I'll tell you, we have a great culture here. Our offices are, they're loud. Which I think is a good thing'cause I've been in other departments and sometimes you're like, why is it so quiet? I literally work in athletics because I've been in another office and it's way too quiet. But it's part of that. When you're in this small place, I can literally yell down the hallway and get someone's attention or walk down and see a coach. And so I think it's also for me, I wanna be available for my coaches. I'm gonna be seen, I'm gonna be at events, I'm going to be, around. I consider myself like I work in athletics also, so I don't have to sit behind a desk all day. And I think that's something that's important for coaches because then that builds that relationship to where we can talk to each other. You've got something, come to me, let's figure it out. So I'm very much a. Really instilled that. If Coach you wanna come to me with something, let's, we're gonna talk about solutions. We're not here to just complain. We're gonna, we're gonna move forward, we're gonna find solutions and we're all gonna make this place better together. It's a great transition'cause you guys have been top 20 in the Learfield Directors Cup. I'm a consistently a year in and year out. And a big part for me, when I go speak at a high school or something like that I tell everybody I want you to remove. If the word success from your vocabulary, and I want you to replace it with significance.'cause success is mere chance. It's, it can be luck, it can be, you had a good day. For me, significance is learning how to do that year in and year out and have that sustain success. What does that look like for you at the division two level? How do you do that? How do you make sure there's that consistency? Maybe you're not winning a championship every year. Maybe you're not. Every year in the top three or four in the conference. But how do you get your kids and your coaches and all the admin on the same page where you're like, we gotta always be here. This is where we're trying to get to every year. No, I've definitely been striving to each year make us better. And I think that success is I appreciate the way you frame that because there's so many different layers to it. Yeah. And I think part of that starts with that. Recruiting process, right? We're gonna get the kids here that know that they're gonna grind work hard and they're gonna give it their all. Because that's something that when you're not fully funded, we don't have all the resources. But I think one thing we focus on what we can control and what we can control is how we work. What are we, are, we're not giving up. Like those are the things that we try to hang our hat on and focus on. And so as we get that, as we get the right. One, you gotta get the right coaches here that understand that and feel that. Also knowing hey, I'm not gonna focus on what I don't have. I'm gonna focus on what I do have and I'm gonna do the best that I can with what I do have. And then that's when we can grow. We've seen that in some of our programs, just as they continue to elevate, people get behind that and next thing you know, we're able to give them more. But my big thing is when a coach comes in Hey, you've gotta show me. You can do with what you got. To get started. I think another thing that we're super fortunate here is we have, our head coach, Damon Martin our CrossCountry director of CrossCountry Track and Field. We have over, I think it's 68 national titles within the sport of track deal. Damon has over four, I think he has 40, correct me if I'm wrong, but yeah, I think he has around 40 right now. So having that is something that these coaches can come in and really look up to and strive for. His office is incredible. It's literally lined with trophies. And so what we also use that as is, hey, when we're bringing coaches here, on visits, right? We're looking for a new head coach. Hey this is our standard, but this didn't happen overnight. Because I think something that's also super important is that it can get really easy to think that the grass is greener somewhere else, or I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna do this, and then go, no, this didn't happen overnight. This was years in the making. So we also try to find people that are gonna be committed, that they're bought in and being like, Hey, this is our standard and this is what we're striving for. And then that trickles down to the kids. We bring kids on recruiting visits. Literally any sport will stop by that office and be like. Just take a look in there. This is what Adam State is. That's right. And so having that visual I think has really helped too to understand that this is a culture of, a really a culture of excellence, right? We're always chasing excellence here and that excellence can also come in many forms. One thing too, it's also in the classroom. We hit a 3.0 department wide GPA last spring, which is one of the highlights of like my entire career. That's great. Great. Mean that's a lot of work to get to that point. The, the best thing is you see them graduating and you see them walk across that stage. And I think still one of the most rewarding things is a kid that's been here for all four, five years, however, long that they've been here. If they came through COVID and it's wow, you all stayed and you're gonna be better because of that. So I think, yeah, there's definitely that We're always chasing excellence in everything that we do. You you've used the phrase, the right coaches, getting the right coaches here a couple times. And I know you're in the middle of a search right now. So I'm gonna since this is all fresh in your brain, I wanna talk a little bit about that process because the last time I applied for a head coaching job and got the job, I think there was 300 applicants. Wow. And that was for basketball. Basketball and football volley a lot. Sometimes you just get an immense baseball softball. You get an immense amount of applicants. People just come out of the woodworks to apply for jobs. Talk a little bit about how that journey begins for you once that job is posted. And'cause. Just in what we talked about before we recorded, it's obvious you have the right mindset. We can't, this can't be eight weeks long. This can't take two and a half months to get a coaching. We need somebody here recruiting, building relationships yesterday. Yep. So talk a little bit about that, because it's maddening. If I told the average person, here's 20 applicants, you've gotta find the best person we're gonna hire. Now we're talking about a head job at a division, two level scholarships. It's good money, great opportunity. You've got all these people that are coming at you, and everybody's mom and brother and sister are calling you to say, Hey, you should hire this person, right? What is that beginning, middle, and end look like for you, and how do you deal with all that from a mental perspective? Yeah, no, I think I, we, I feel like in athletics we always have this like sense of urgency, right? And I think sometimes that's probably my biggest hangup is sometimes other areas of campus don't have that same sense of urgency. So it's usually I am very much if I know a coach is leaving, boom, I'm on it.'cause I gotta get that posted right away. From the state of Colorado, we do have to have the job posted for two weeks. So I know I've got at least that two week waiting period. But we're doing all the work in the backend. We're creating timelines, we're reviewing candidates, we're, sorting, starting to sort through them so that way when that two week date hits we're reviewing on that day to then be able to do those first round interviews. And I think, for me it's, it's crazy because I think my first, like summer here, I think we had about seven searches. We were just like, it was again, that out of COVID we weren't able to hire. So now all of a sudden I've gotta hire all these people. That was, my first experience, for example, hiring a football coach. And we actually ended up doing internal, so it wasn't as intensive, but oh my goodness. Hire a football coach is probably one of the hardest things that I've done. Just the amount of, I, I completely agree. It was the hardest search I've ever done when I had to hire a football coach. Yeah, just the amount of phone calls to people and I'm over here just oh my God. It's a lot. And I think what I think is, so it's really easy to like doubt yourself, right? It's really easy just to be like, oh my gosh, is this the right person? Is this the right person? So it really took me some time to then feel like what I'm looking for and what I know is gonna be the right fit. Because I think I'm over here I don't know anything about football. I'm like, I can know some basics, but I'm not gonna know that. Yeah. And so I think for me it's really looking at what kind of experience does someone have. We do have, usually your minimum qualifications and that's all laid out already, but I'm not always I could have two resumes and. One could have a lot more experience. Maybe on paper is way more qualified. But if we get to that first interview we're bringing on campus and I'm sitting in a room talking to'em, I feel like that's when I really try to sort through'em. I think because it can be so different from step by step. But what I really found is that I find people, or I try to find people. That one have been at smaller schools.'cause that does help a little bit, right? As many times sometimes as you have those that have maybe been bigger schools and they're like, oh, I know what it's like to work at a, a small school. It's if you haven't done it, it can be a little challenging, right? Sometimes we can work through it'cause we've had that too, and it's been great. But really trying to find those people that have proven and shown that they've grinded and they found ways with what they have. I say all the time that we have to get creative here. And that's something that I really look for in people. Can you get creative? Can you think outside of the box? One big question we ask is, how are you gonna recruit kids and how are you gonna recruit'em here? What are you gonna show that we can offer? So I really try to have that conversation with'em, and I think that it's truly those fit is just such an important thing for me. And I wish I had a very clear cut of like how I do it, but for me it's very. When I, we bring finalists on campus and I sit down with them. I feel like it's, a lot of times I gut check too, right? Of I know that this person may not be the most qualified, but they're a better fit for our department. And the ones that have been better fits are the ones that have actually lasted longer than the ones that might have been more qualified. So really for me it's and again our department's so small, right? So it's like we're doing the meetings. Meeting with all the coaches and staff at one time, and next thing you know, they're like little puppies running around the office. Like I'll ask, what'd you think? What'd you think? But because it's like everybody also cares. Everybody wants to bring someone in that's gonna fit what we already have. We don't have any coaches that are just in and out all day. We've got coaches that have. All the kids are like besties and they're all running wild. So we're like, Hey, you got a kid? This is great. This is a, great fit for you. We do a lot of things as a staff and it's Hey, who's gonna be a good golfer with us? Or who's gonna, things like that, that we think about. So it really, truly, for me, fit will outweigh what's on paper. And sometimes figure out weight qualifications, I guess sometimes for me is what I'm. I think about there. Absolutely. You've gotta have the right person on that bus with you. And that has to be the person you wanna work with every day that can handle conflict with you.'cause you know you're gonna have that can handle the chaos. Because you know you're gonna have that. Yeah. Who's that person you want in that foxhole with you? Yeah. And who's gonna get along with your staff and the other coaches? It, there's so many levels to that. I wanna go backwards though. I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick on you a little, just pick on your brain a little bit. You are reading the cover letter, are there a couple things that kind of jump out at you at a cover letter and you're like, okay, I'm excited to read this resume now? Or, and are there things that are like, okay, ai did this or this person put two sentences together? Are there things, are there good and bad when you're reading a cover letter that kind of pop in your head right away? Yeah. Authenticity is one of'em is something that I look for. I'm also very big on if your cover letter doesn't match your resume, that's usually a big red flag for me. Or if there's something where I'm very big on like dates. So if there's a date that's like an end date. But it's not if they're in their most previous role and it's not present, it's to an actual end date. So then I'm over here you better be addressing that in your cover letter because I wanna know'cause, and my thing is, it's gonna be asked more. Especially in this world, right? Of college athletics. And so I think really just that authenticity. I like to see people that have taken programs. I like to. I like to try to feel out how they respond and interact with their student athletes as well. Like that. Do you, are you gonna be there for your student athletes? You're gonna be hard on'em, but you're gonna love'em too. Can do. They show that kind of work ethic and that grind in the cover letter. And again, that just comes out to being very real. I mean we've seen I think all sorts of things in cover letters. We've seen the wrong school listed where it's just like a template one and then it's moved over. Yeah. I also like to see a little bit about why you wanna be at Adam State, because I think that's super important. What attracts you about this role and what have you done makes you feel like you'd be a good fit here? So those are the, some of those points I think I look at initially. All right. Let's talk about the resume now. Are there things that you just know that you've gotta have? You've talked about small school history. I always wanted to have three head coaches experience, and then I wanted some assistance. I wanted to have that mix that we were interviewing those people that were ready for that next jump. But I also wanted us to be able to compare those to those coaches that have been doing this for a while. Where are you at with that and what you're looking for before you move them ahead to maybe that first zoom or phone interview? Exactly what you just said, we usually look for some variety. So looking at some of those that have been in the head coaching chair, because I think that also brings a lot of value. Someone that's done it they've proven that they can do it. But then I also like to look at some of those young hungry assistant coaches. I think too, there, there's a big difference for me because I was an assistant coach. You can tell the difference between the different layers of assistant coaches, so sometimes those assistant coaches at bigger schools. You're really not doing a lot of X's and O's or you're maybe just barely touching it unless you're up at this level of it. Yeah. So it's assistant coaches definitely don't scare me. I love seeing hungry assistant coaches, but there is that layer of what level of assistant coach, because I know assistant coaches can grind because I've done it. But I also know that there's, different layers to where if you were an assistant coach and only doing this. This could be a big step for you. Totally. And so I was trying to shoot those gradual steps, but I love having it, in a perfect world, it's really nice to have kind of a different variety that we're able to bring. Because then when we bring'em to campus, it makes it a lot. We see it all, which I really appreciate. Every school's a little bit different how they go about that next step now. Okay, now we're gonna interview. In a lot of schools, the HR will tell you. Whatever questions you're asking this candidate, you have to ask the same ones to the next candidate. Okay. There's just the politic, the politics of it and making sure you're crossing your t's of do in your i's when you see there's some things in a resume. You're like, gosh, I really like this person. This is the kind of energy I want. I love the authenticity of the cover letter. It seems like they put some real thought into wanting to be here. And what this place means to us, but. Gosh, I don't know if they, I don't see that they have a real history of running an offense or I don't see that they've been the closer with recruiting. Are there things that you want to get into in that first phone call with them to answer those questions no matter what your standard list is? Yeah, so definitely. The way we do it is we have our first round, zoom interviews. I'm very fortunate to have a staff that's been in place that they've got that down, and I put people in there that I trust. I'm like, you all tell me who you feel like, you wanna bring to that next step. And then after that I'll do a little bit more of a dive into their, a little bit closer into the resume cover letter. And then talk to my committee to then get some feedback where they're like, Hey, someone's really good in this area, but we do have some questions about this. So I take their feedback first. And then I also do my own feedback specifically with football, just'cause that was a, we did that search over a little over a year ago. Again, I knew nothing about football. I was like, yeah, football coach. Yeah, it's all the same, right? Yeah, no, very different. So then I'm getting people asking me, do you want like a defensive coach or an offensive coach? And I'm like. So that was actually something that was really cool'cause I was able to, we actually had a variety of both offensive and defensive sides of the ball, so it was really cool to be able to dive into that a little bit. Yeah. But I'll be completely honest, like I hate interviews. I absolutely hate'em. I know we have to do them, which is why I've moved away. We do our first round Zoom interviews, and those are all obviously same questions, all of that. But when I bring them to campus, we don't do any sort of formal interviews. What we do is we set their schedule to very much I want you to meet with all these different people. You're gonna meet with all of our coaches and staff. I want you to meet one-on-one with our strength staff our athletic trainers.'cause I want you to know who you're gonna be working with. Do you all see, do we have similar philosophies? Do we feel like, because if you have a coach come in and they're like, no, I wanna do all my own, training and strength that's usually that's sometimes that can be a little bit of a turnoff, right? I'll usually meet with them and then what we'll do is we'll have them also meet with the team. So anytime it is a head coach, we will always include the student athletes because I think that their voices are very important. We also make it clear that it's hey, just because if you all really want this person, it doesn't always mean that you know you're gonna get it right. But we do provide feedback for them, and I actually go in there after they've met with all for this next search, it'll be three of them. So I'll go in there, find a separate time to meet with them and get their feedback. I will be, it's actually cool to see that a lot of times it actually aligns with where I'm at and like our committee's at. But I do take that feedback very seriously because I do understand that so far we've been aligned, but there could be that time when it doesn't align. Next thing they don't like it and that, but I also think another layer of that is, Hey, we all really like this person. You all really like this person. If they don't work out, this really, no one else we can blame except ourselves, right? That's right. Everybody's at fault on this one. And so I include them. And then we do a lot of, instead of sitting down formally with the search committee, you're gonna go to lunch with them and you all are just gonna have good, engaging conversations. And I think that's something that we really found works for us. Because again, it's back to what I was saying earlier, it's all about finding the right fit and it's really just we used to joke that one of my former compliance individuals he was, he would sit down with them and he was like our vibe check guy. So we would be like, let's see what he thinks because he is usually got the best vibe reader on all of'em. And what's kind, I just having a vibe check guy in it. Yeah, it's really helpful, I'll tell you. But it, it's cool though to see like the way we've gone through it and. Usually people do become aligned and then after that, obviously especially if you come down to where you can't decide between a couple we'll obviously reference checks and really take the time to do it'cause it's a big decision. It really is. And it's something that you wanna, be as, as right as you can be on it. Yes. It is it's so trying and I completely understand where you're coming from the interview perspective.'cause it is, it's just it's monotonous and it's almost like you're rooting for this person to blow your doors off. Just come in and inspire us. Just come in and motivate us. Please. That's what we want. That's what the kids want. Yep. And oftentimes you get somebody that. Doesn't understand. We are hiring you to be a coach. Coach is here. Give us give us your coach attitude. Yeah. Yeah. And we, you don't always get that. I am struck because I'm going through, I'm interviewing for three jobs right now. I'm running the interview for three jobs right now, or I'm hiring three college coaches and I'm struggling with how bad the writing is. Yeah. We've seen that too, where. You're not telling me in the cover letter why you want, why you're even applying for this job. Why, like you said it's so important. Why here, why what are you gonna do here? And I've been writing a ton about it in my blog about, this is what you're, I wanna see in a cover letter and this is what I wanna see in your resume. Don't tell me how many games you won. I wanna see the specifics. What is it about coaching that you've learned along the way? That makes you prepared for this job. Talk a little bit about when you do see that resume, are there things that surprise you sometimes in a good way where you're like. I haven't seen a lot of that. Is there any of those resumes you're looking at right now and going, I like that. I like,'cause not every coach will put, this is my team GPA for the last four years. Yeah. Not every coach will say I was involved with this. I wasn't just the soccer coach, I was also doing this on campus. Are those things important to you? I would say, yeah. A lot of times coaches, yes, you're right. Defer to like wins and losses and that is good to see. We do like to see GPA. I think it is good to see that as well as retention, just to try to get a little bit of an idea. And another big one here that, and it's actually one of the questions that we asked. Is their experience fundraising fundraising and running camps, because that's a staple for a head coaching job here. And so I don't wanna see there's a lot of ways you can fundraise, right? But I wanna see a little bit more than we sold t-shirts, right? I wanna see a little bit more back to that. Cre creativity is something that we're really looking for because we do understand we've got, limited resources and or can you show to me that you can find a way to make up some of those gaps? Or you're telling me you wanna go into this tournament, it's okay, where's the money for it? How are you gonna raise this? Or it better already be in the bank before we spend it. So I think that's something too, that coaches. Coaches are, especially at this level, and I could say arguably at all levels, they're not just coaches. They are sometimes fill parental roles. They are counselors. They are like the people that get called in the middle of the night. They, sometimes, like they're, they feel like the judge, the jury, and every they just feel like everything. And so we do try to also see that and capture that as well, knowing that we need someone that's gonna be, they're gonna see these students as more than just athletes because it. It's crazy how many times our coaches would be like wanted to be a head coach. I thought I would just be able to coach. Yep. Nope. Jokes on you, because there's a lot more to it. That's right. There is it's such a big job. You have to be the CEO of a program. You have to be, you have to have a business mind. Yeah. If you don't have that entrepreneurial spirit, it, it can, you're gonna struggle as a head coach at any level. Talk a little bit about pipelining. I preach this when I'm doing some coaching with adsd, especially young adsd i'll talk about if you don't have a folder in your desk, for every sport, for every coach that you run across, you see an assistant that comes to campus that's you're playing against and they're dynamic. If you're not keeping a list of coaches that when, if your coach leaves, you have some ideas. You're always starting from zero. Where are you at with that pipelining philosophy in terms of I'm not just gonna wait to see who applies. I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna encourage some people to apply. Are you in that world? It's funny because I always tell, I have an extremely like guilty conscience. So I feel like if I were to, I almost feel guilty if I were to like reach out to somebody and be like, Hey because I feel like I'm such a people person. I have great relationships, especially with the ADSD in our conference. To where that, so there has been sometimes be like, Hey. Definitely wanna reach out to this person. Is that okay? Alright. So I do have a little bit of that. Our coaches are also very well connected for example, it's like our basketball coaches were like, Hey, I know a couple volleyball coaches at this school I was at. So I feel like the coaches also do a lot of that work for me, which I do appreciate. Yes. Another big thing that we do look at my first, I would say, line of defense or layer is alumni. Do we have any alums? That are in that world that wanna come back. Because I will say we have found a lot of success in bringing back a lot of our alums to campus. People that have gone out. Our football coach is a great example. Went out, had coached at a couple different D two schools, had been at DC, was doing so many good things. He checks so many boxes, right? He's ready for the next step. Ready for the head job. He's got the love for Adam State. And obviously not I think with certain searches though I feel like there's some of our areas where not a lot of coaches came outta that sport, and that's okay too. But that is something that we always try to keep in touch with too, is bringing back those alums, especially those alums that were part of really good and successful programs. Yeah. Because that's what they, they've. Their blood set and tears here and they've worked through it and they know what it's like. So we've seen a lot of that too. I'm gonna, we'll say August 12th, I wanna put you in front of all your athletes. I'm sure you do something before every season with your athletes, right? You get everybody in a room or a gym and talk to all your football, soccer, and Yep. Volleyball players. What are some of those things and come at it from the perspective of the parents that are listening, the high school coaches that are listening to this. On the mindset of those kids that are transitioning to college, transitioning to that division two high level of athletics, what are some of those things you're talking to your student body about that you expect from them for their upcoming season? Yeah, my coaches joke with me'cause they pretty much know my spiel'cause it's really not long. When I do talk to the students, because I'm very, I, what I really focus on is letting them know that I'm here for them. My door's always open, you know where to find me, reach out to me if you need anything at all. So I think that's a big one that I hit on is knowing that I'm there for them. Another big thing I hit on is don't do stupid things because we will find out about it. They always think they're sneaky, they're not. Usually things always come back to us, especially in a small campus, small community. And we talk about that. We talk about there's people in the community that watch you. They know who you are. A lot of you wear Adam State outta your athletic stuff all the time. So just remembering that and really to be good stewards of the community and be involved in the community. Is a lot of things that we hit on. So it's a lot of that from a kinda that care Hey, we're here for you. We care about you, we wanna see you all be successful and what we're here for. And then we do have everybody in our department introduce themselves, all of our support staff, because I think that's important that they know who people are. I do think that it's gotten a lot better, but I think it's interesting. My trajectory as an ad was. I was almost too accessible and available to start. Because I think sometimes, students would come talk to you and it was good to hear from them, but sometimes you're like, okay we've gotta work on some other things. We gotta be a little bit tougher that,'cause like you talk, they're saying things about coaches and sometimes you're like. Just trying to take that deep breath and you're like what's the problem? Just because a lot of times it comes back to playing time too. And so I've also made it very clear that like I do not discuss playing time. That is not something that I will ever be a part of because that's not my job. And so a lot of times when you're peeling back these layers, like if we've got real issues, I don't know about'em. But if you're upset because you're not playing, I unfortunately, I really can't help you. That's helped me get to this better point to where it doesn't feel like every kid's coming to you, because they're not playing. But also not scared to bring the real issues to my attention. I was an ad college ad at 27. You wanna talk about unprepared and I think. Maybe the youngest coach I had might've been in their late thirties. Everybody else was probably 39 to 50. So I just remember how challenging that was to just earn their trust. When you talk about everything you just talked about with kids, which is just fantastic, it's the right approach, it's the right idea and you're talking about the right challenges that you've had to face to learn in that. What are some of the things you're doing with your coaches? To get them to understand not only your expectations, but that they can trust you. That you're doing this collaboratively. You gotta be the boss, you gotta make the hard decisions, but you're doing it with them. Where does, is that individual meetings, is that in staff meetings? Where do you build that? Yeah. No I appreciate that too. And I understand I think I was 28, so Yeah, you're over here. I have no idea what I'm doing. It, I feel like a lot of it happened fluidly. I, I. I, I, luckily, I was in this department before, so I already had an idea about how it ran. So I feel like the operational side of it, I could handle that. Just like I said, I hate interviews. I also hate meetings. Absolutely hate'em. So I am very much a, I'm gonna pop into your office, you're gonna pop by mine. We're gonna, text text me, call me, do whatever. So I think one, I make myself accessible to them, like literally 24 7. When we do bring no co no coaches in, it's I should know about something. I shouldn't hear about it from someone else. Just like we would ex the students should let the coach know,'cause the coach shouldn't know about from someone else. And, as it goes up the ladder there. And so I really just think it's the interaction with coaches and just being human. Like I don't feel like I am. I'm above anyone, right? Yes I am the boss. I'm running everything, but I truly don't feel like I come in like that. I don't know if that makes sense. It makes complete sense. Yeah. Yeah. Just things like that to where it's we're all in this together because we all have the same common goal. And I think by me not coming in, that top down mentality has really helped, bring everybody up to where it's like, all hey, let's see what Caitlyn thinks, but run it by me. Okay, great. Boom. Good. And kind. It's funny like with the student athletes, sometimes the coaches would bring stuff to me and at first it's like you're trying to take everything in, but it's like that's not sustainable. And so part of me becoming a better leader, I would say a lot of it is going from being a manager to a leader, right? Because I'm so used to managing, I'm so used to like the day-to-day boom.'cause I came up on their op operation side. But becoming that leader is more of I let my coaches do and I let my staff do. And then also being a little bit clearer on what needs to come to me and what does not. And I think that's also helped a lot because it was like, when you try to take everything in it, like I said, it's just not sustainable and it'll burn you out. And so we really got a pretty good I think system where again, it's. If we need to call a meeting, we will. And I'll do preseason end of season. Like I'll do all of those, like more sit down check-ins mostly just to make sure we have the time to talk. Because I think that's also important because things can get so busy and crazy. So we will set aside time in that way. But in terms of just current standing meetings with coaches. I don't have that. Our support staff, we meet every week obviously,'cause we gotta go through the day to day in the week. But I think it's just like that lead by example. I'm very much, a servant leader. I'm gonna help when I can. I'm gonna, but yeah, I am gonna have to make those tough decisions. And if I do have to make a tough decision, you are gonna be included in that. You are gonna know the why. You are going to know why we are doing what we are doing. And so yeah, those conversations aren't fun, but. It's needed because it's my job. But that comes with building that respect and those relationships to make those conversations a little bit easier. You talk about telling the kids don't do stupid stuff. Don't do stupid stuff. And it's almost like the adult way you talk to the coaches is this, is what I'm hearing from you is. I'm your boss, but don't put me in a position where I have to be your boss, right? Yeah, pretty much, right? If you've got something coming up, something you're worried about, something you're hearing, something I, I'm gonna eventually hear about. Be proactive. Get in here and tell me what's going on. Tell me that you need some help. Tell me you, you wanna work through something and we'll do it together. Yeah. It's really the same thing. Don't do stupid things. Oh, completely. Oh, I could, yeah. Say that about both. Don't get drunk at Applebee's on a Saturday night. Yeah. Not expect somebody to tell me about it, or just something bad to happen because you were drunk at Applebee's at one o'clock in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, I know it is. It's funny how similar that is, and I think back to. You coaches expect their athletes to tell them when things happen, right? So they don't hear from somebody else. And it's the same exact thing. Hey coach, I better hear it from you before I hear it from anybody else. And I've had coaches that, or they'll go off or they'll do something, they'll come in and tell me and they'll be like, I know what was wrong and I'm gonna go fix it. And you're like, good. Okay. And go ahead. Yeah, so that's a blessing because okay. At least you're telling me, because if you're telling me you're gonna go fix it, and I don't, not sure you know how to fix it. Yes. At least you told me before you tried to fix it. True. That. Can I give you a couple of ideas before you try and go fix this? Exactly. How about we take a breath and calm you down first and right. Yes. I love that. They're great though. But I do, I'm very fortunate and blessed to have some great coaches right now. And I truly am. And yeah. Yeah, it's been fun. Caitlin, why division two for that family that doesn't get division two doesn't understand the division levels? What makes division two so great? What makes it such an attractive fit for the right kid? I think right now, division two is the most, what feels like the most sane division. We still have that student athlete mentality, and I think we will continue to hang on to that. Division two, in my opinion, is so special because one it's still competi. You can still earn and make, get some scholarship money, right? Like you have that opportunity to get some money and then do the sport that you love at a very high level. I think about division two and where we're at. We are, I've said it a couple times, we have a really tight knit community here, right? We're very rural. And so something that I could think about and see is. We've watched other gyms, we've seen some D ones and they're, maybe some mid-majors or smaller division ones, and they've got no one in the stands. And we're over here. We've got a small gym. It's tight there. It's pretty, pretty tight, but we pack that thing and it is loud and it is fun. That's so much better, isn't it? See, and that's what I think all the time is I just feel like I'd rather have that experience. I'd rather be here, be able to play, be surrounded by people who actually care about me and who actually know my name. I think that's something, I love that. I love getting to know the student athletes. It's awesome and it's just being able to see them and do what they love. Is the reason that we do what we do. And I just think that sometimes at some bigger schools it can feel very disconnected or you don't maybe know all the different people in the department. Like I said, we're, we are all in one building. We are way too close for you to not know who we are. And it also shouldn't be a scary thing, if the ad walks into practice shouldn't be like, oh no, it should just be like normal. And I think that's something that we try to really instill is that we're all gonna be around, we're all available. People will know your name here and they're gonna really appreciate you and appreciate you for being a human, for being a student, for being who you are outside of your sport, right?'cause it's not just all about you as a basketball player or you as a baseball player. So much more to you than that. Totally agree. Talk a little bit to the family out there that's in Colorado, surrounding states that doesn't know much about Adam State. Why is it a great place to come visit and give it a look? Oh yeah. No, it is. It's so unique and I will say Adam State is in Alamosa, Colorado. Like I said before, it's very rural. I came from a kind of a city in Washington and I drove in here and I'm not gonna lie, I drove in and I started crying because I could not believe what I had gotten myself into. Don't look at you. Yeah. I was like, and here we are, 11 years later or whatever it is. But I really, truly think that Adam State is a place that you have to make the most of. You can easily come here and be like, oh, it's small. There's nothing to do. No, you're just not looking. And so we really try to sell that, that there's things to do. It may not be the big city, but there's so many other options. Going downtown, going outdoorsy, things, going hiking, it's a way for students to experience things that they never would. Being able to take, working with some other different groups across campus and taking these kids out to these small communities and they're seeing things. They never would've seen before. Even like carrot, we have a lot of farming here, right? So potato farms, carrot farms, a lot of, all the ag stuff we have getting them to experience that I think is something that's so cool. And then back to it, it's a community where people will know who you are. They'll see you downtown, they'll see you out at one of the coffee shops or out at, one of the restaurants and they'll be like, oh, great game last night. Or, how's everything going? And they it's really a unique and special place in that kind of way. And I think that's something that it's cra crazy because every time we're with candidates and they ask us why I'm a state for you, I feel like this is a question we get a lot and cont over and over. I feel like we say it's the people here. I know that sounds crazy, but it's it really is the people. It's like that you're in that community where people wave, when they're on their bike or walking like everybody waves. Like I was in a Washington DC for the NCA convention and I remember I was walking around seeing some of the sites and I'm so used to just waving at people. I look like a fricking crazy person.'cause I'm like, just waving and oh, you don't do this here. So it's like when it almost feels cliche, but it's like real. And I think that's something that, I think one of my favorite things too is when we have athletes that come in and then they be, they get engulf themselves in the community and then they end up staying because they love it here. That is one of the coolest things for me. It's such a good point.'cause, I've, I always recruited outta state. I was a big believer 60% of my roster was gonna be outta state.'cause I wanted kids to stay. I wanted them to fricking learn how to do their laundry on their own. I wanted them to learn how to deal with a roommate that maybe they didn't know, didn't relate to very well, and they had to figure it out. Yeah. And when I, when that happens. All of a sudden they're not going anywhere. They love it. They're not looking to transfer. They're not looking at the other side of the fence. Yeah, and I think that's what's really great about Adam State is okay, maybe there's not a rock concert five minutes away. Okay. Maybe there's not a professional baseball game five minutes away, but the fact that. You get to play division two, high level sport. Get a great education. You're gonna build this family, this sisterhood and brotherhood and get to know all these people and it just, there's nothing better. You can move to Seattle and Denver and Chicago when you're 22. You can go get a job if you want a big city, but go somewhere where you can learn how to be an adult. Learn how to get to know people and I grew up in a town of 2000 people, i'm always waving back to you, Caitlyn. I promise you always. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Someone hopefully will. Yeah, that's right. Coach, this is awesome. I wanna talk some recruiting with you. We'll do that in part two, but I wanna do a little rapid fire with you. Just whatever comes to your head, some fun stuff so people get to know you a little bit. What's your favorite part? 11 years. Big city girl, small town. What's your favorite part of living in Alamosa? Oh, it's the mountains. Just being surrounded by mountains, being able to drive not that far, and go hiking. Yeah. I love the outdoors now. I, we moved to Colorado 11, 12 years ago and I wish we would've moved here 10 years before that. I'm single. I cross country meet or basketball. I know you're highly involved in both. I know that's such a tough one. Like my, like heart is like basketball, but I will say there is nothing like being out a cross country meet. It is so fun. It's crazy. It's loud. People running everywhere. It's awesome. So that's a tough one. You'd never wanna go to a cross country meet at six 30 when you're in your warm bed in October. But once you get there, you're like, I'm so glad I can. Oh, it's awesome. The start is my favorite part where there's just like this whole mob of people taking off. Yeah, I agree. Early morning workout or late evening walk. Honestly, both. I'm an early morning person, but I like my later evening walks with the dogs. Yeah, it's when you got a beautiful view like you guys have in Alamos, it's the best time of advantage, the best time of the day. And at dusk is there a book, a leadership book that you think everybody should read, or at least coaches should read? Is there. Yeah. And actually I'll say the one that we are working on as an executive team on our campus too. But it's called Do Hard Things and I think it just speaks to a lot of these jobs aren't easy otherwise I think everybody would do it and like things are gonna be hard. And I think just remembering it's a privilege to do what we do. And the hard things make it good in a crazy way. A lot of coaches have been bringing that book up. I love it. Most underrated, division two experience. Is there something that really makes Division two unique? I would say because of where we're at sometimes in some ways it is the game day environment. I think really people don't think it's a lot and they're just coming into a gym, playing and leaving. No, it's the, we're able to surround it with different sponsorships, with things going in the crowd. Like I think that's something that we've seen at a lot of schools. Even that game day experience, it can be just as fun and exhilarating as some of that higher level. What's your best stress reliever at the end of it? A long day. Probably trying to get out go for a walk, get outside. Sometimes I do wish I was better at it, but I have found that when I when it's not windy, I will say the windier can get a little rough sometimes when it's not windy. Getting outside is something you're a dog mom. You don't have much choice with that. I do. I have to. It's like my duty. Yeah. Yeah. If you weren't in athletics what career would you be in? Oh gosh. That's a hard one.'Cause it's weird. I can't see myself in anything but athletics. Oh gosh. I feel like if anything it would just be something where I could travel a lot because I love to travel, so anything that would be around that or helping people travel.'cause I like organizing trips. If I were to interview the 22-year-old version of yourself, could you imagine yourself as an 80? Oh, absolutely not. No way. Never. I dunno, anybody that dreams about that, do they? Especially once you get the job and you realize what it is. Like what, yeah. Who would wanna do this? Yeah. Favorite thing about working with student athletes? Oh my gosh, they're so funny. And they keep you young too. Yeah, and I think I like the student athletes, especially at the college level because you can be so real with them and like just tell'em how it is and they look at you like, how dare you say that? I'm like yeah, figure, figure it out. And so I just love that you can be that honest, like give'em crap sometimes it's the best. There's so much I don't miss about. Working at the college level, but those, working with a, an athletic staff every day and having the kids every day, just that they just keep it so fresh and, oh, there's never the next day's, never like the day before, right? Oh, no. And they keep you so young. I like to think that I'm not, I. Kind of young still, but then they say things and you're like, what? So yeah, really they keep me up to date with everything also. I'll send my 60-year-old daughter to you for a weekend. You? Yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah. That'll be perfect for you. Let's finish on this one. What's one leadership trait you are still working on? I think a big one is and I've gotten better at, but that kind of like that delegation piece. I know I talked about it earlier, but I think it's really that. Going from a manager to a leader and truly feeling okay, I am leading, we've got everything in place, doing all the doing everything. So just getting better at something comes my way. It's okay to give it to somebody else or say, Hey, this is for so and so instead of me. But definitely that's a big one. And really shifting those gears and shifting that mindset. Caly, I'm really picky who I invite on this podcast because it's usually selfish. It's people that I'm like. I've read enough about you. I'm like I want to get to know you. You've blown me away. You're awesome. I'm so thankful you're in our state here in Colorado. I'm so thankful that you're representing a great school in Adams state and I'm so appreciative of your honesty and your authenticity and the love that you have for your people that you represent. So thanks for doing this today. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. You've been great as well, so I really appreciate it. Anybody that's listening come back on Monday. We're, I've taken a lot of her time. I'm hoping she's gonna gimme about 10, 15 more minutes. We're gonna dive into recruiting and really talk about division two recruiting in the portal and NIL and all those crazy things that you have to deal with every day. So I see you all in a couple of days. You just heard part one of my conversation with Kaitlyn Smith, athletic director at Adams State University, and I'll tell you this, Kaitlyn is the real deal. She's honest. She's humble, and she leads with the kind of conviction that you don't have to explain. She knows her job is to build an environment where coaches and student athletes can become the best versions of themselves. And she doesn't run from the reality of a small campus in a small town. She leans into it. She sees it as an advantage because in places like that, people know your name, they care, they show up, and they hold you accountable in the best way. In part two, we're gonna shift into recruiting and talk division two realities how families should evaluate fit, what the transfer portal is doing to roster management, how NIL is showing up at different levels, and what athletes can do right now to position themselves the right way. So don't miss it. And if you want more tools to help you navigate recruiting, parenting, coaching, and the entire college athletics journey, head over to coach matt rogers.com. You can find my podcast episodes, my weekly blog, my books, recruiting journals, and you can schedule a recruiting strategy session if you want a clear plan for what's next. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control. Stay humble and keep chasing significance.