Episode #163: Paula Krueger on Recruiting

🏀 Do You Have What It Takes to Play D2? | Paula Krueger 

In Part II of this conversation on the Significant Recruiting Podcast, Matt Rogers sits down with Paula Krueger, Head Women’s Basketball Coach at NCAA Division II Northern State University, to break down what college recruiting really looks like from the coach’s perspective.

This episode dives into how recruiting lists actually work, the reality of the transfer portal, why opportunity is more than just playing time, and how recruits should communicate with college coaches the right way.

A must-listen for athletes, parents, and coaches navigating the recruiting journey.

⏱️ CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
00:30 What It Takes to Play D2
02:00 How Recruiting Lists Actually Work
05:00 Why Coaches Already Have Their Lists
07:30 What Coaches Watch at AAU Events
10:00 Defense, Rebounding & Effort
12:30 Stats vs Real Evaluation
15:00 The Reality of the Transfer Portal
18:30 Why Players Transfer
21:00 Opportunity Beyond Playing Time
24:00 Competing Within Your Own Team
27:00 Communicating with College Coaches
30:00 Common Mistakes Recruits Make
33:00 Final Advice for Recruits
36:00 Closing Thoughts

🎧 Listen at coachmattrogers.com/podcast
 📺 Watch at youtube.com/@CoachMattRogers

Transcript

0:09

On the latest edition of The Significant Coaching Podcast, a recruiting presentation of the coach, Matt Rogers YouTube channel. Available audio only everywhere you get your favorite podcast. I'm your host Matt Rogers as we dive into part two with the great Paula Krueger head, women's basketball coach at Northern State University, this conversation is all about what it really takes to play at the next level. Coach Krueger gets into the weeds on how recruiting lists actually work and why coaches already have them when they come to watch you play. The reality of the transfer portal, why opportunity is about more than just playing time and how recruits should communicate with college coaches the right way. And if you're looking for more guidance in your recruiting journey, you can find resources, tools, and schedule a recruiting strategy session with me@coachmattrogers.com. I'm also available to speak at your school club or organization to help your athletes, parents and coaches take ownership of the recruiting process. Alright, let's get into it. Here's part two with Paula Krueger. Coach Krueger, such fun conversation on coaching. I could talk to you for three more hours just on coaching. I want to dive into recruiting. Both of us are basketball coaches. We've been basketball coaches a long time bear with us. If anybody listening that's not a lover of basketball. We're gonna get into the technique of basketball a little bit.'cause from a recruiting standpoint, I've always said. If I bring a kid in who's 18 years old, if I can get them to understand our defense by the time they're halfway through their sophomore year, I've done something well. So when you're sitting watching film, you're at a court, you're watching games, how much are you looking at the help side defense when you're watching a kid? I think. Every coach looks a little bit at that. I think the hardest part about defense and finding those kids is there's a lot of zone being played. Wow. And so that is a little bit of a challenge. Like I've had a couple kids that I've recruited that are unbelievable athletes, but didn't play a stitch a man defense in high school. So they're learning. From basic, yeah from the bottom up. But if I am lucky enough to see somebody play man defense, you can ask my assistants, they'll be sitting with me and there might have, there might be a time like get in a gap. Look at her. She's face guarding this kid in the corner and the ball's on the other side. Yeah, I de I definitely notice it. We definitely, my assistant, in fact, we were at a game the other night at a state tournament and she's look at this kid right now. She is face guarding this girl in the corner and the ball's on the opposite side of the floor, no idea where the ball is. No clue would've hit her right in the back of the head. And she wasn't gonna stop a cut either because she was so close to the kid. The kid could see the ball and she couldn't like it. She was toast. Yeah. And so do I pay attention to it? Yes, I do. Do I understand that it's maybe not being taught in a way that you or I or other people would teach it. I have to keep that in perspective too. It's, people talk about defense and effort and for me. 80% of defense is where your body is and have being in the right position. And then you don't have to work so hard'cause you can see where everything's going on. So whenever I see a kid that's two passes away and they're in the paint the butts to the baseline, they know how to read the angles. They know how to go to space when a on a screen. They know how to attack a pick and roll. I just, I fall in love, I'm like, Ugh, that's a kid. I'm, it's not gonna take me 18 months to get'em where they need to be. Oh a hundred percent. There. There's so many there are kids that come in and they're really talented kids and I think we wouldn't be recruiting'em if we didn't see that they could do something for our program. But that 18 months that you talked about for some, like when you bring kids in that are 18, 18 years old, understanding that. It's gonna take you some time. That I think is the greatest challenge. If you find a kid that has a couple of those pieces already figured out now maybe that, that 18 months you're building the whole thing, right? Like you're getting a chance for that kid to really, truly be ready to see some time. Because not every freshman can come in and play right away. Not every 18-year-old is ready. But if you've got that defensive side, which I find. Is the hardest part to develop when you bring kids in is the defensive piece because there's 150,000 different philosophies on how they're gonna play it and what they're gonna do, and then you come with some will. I was just so much of a better athlete. Like I didn't really have to guard anybody. I just would go steal the ball when it was in the air. I played passing lanes or whatever, and I'm like, yeah, that's not gonna work here because everybody else is talented. The people we played against are just like, you are also athletes. I agree with you. If you can get them to that place in 18 to 24 months, like in the first two years you've really you've taught something. That's right. And they're gonna have that forever. Absolutely. They're gonna be in a women's adult women's league when they're 25 years old and they're just dominating because they know where to be. Where their feet, right? Yes. They understand the right place, the right time. All those pieces. Talk about watching those, that rebounds in the same way. What are you looking for? For me, rebounding is probably one of the number one things that I look at for every kid. My old college coach ingrained in my brain my whole life that when you're at Northern State, you rebound, you always will. That's it doesn't go away. So everywhere that I went we took rebounding and it's an emphasis in every drill. There wasn't. A practice in the time that I've been a coach where we didn't make rebounding, even if we were working in offensive drill rebounding was an emphasis on boxing out or following your shot. Or I'll, you'll hear me say, finish with a rebound. A thousand times. Yeah. In a practice, no drill ends until there's a rebound. And finding kids with that nose for the ball that wanna go get it, that just all out, you know that Dennis Rodman mentality, man, I'm aging myself there how many times did you see Dennis Rodman have 20 plus rebounds and only have four points? But he impacted the game because nobody else was gonna get the ball. And I think there's a niche for that. We have a young lady playing right now. In the last two or three games she had. 13, 13 and 14 rebounds and only took two or three shots. But her ability to go find the basketball and just go harder than somebody else kept her on the, kept her on the floor. Yeah. There's a D three female that had 20 and 23 rebounds, I think the last two games in the lead eight. And you look at what Angel Reese Yes. Can barely make a layup consistently is changing a game with her defense and effort in getting 18, 20 boards and, yeah. It's a, it's effort based. The two things that you just said, like defense and rebounding. Anyone can do those two things. Yeah. If they buy into it and they put themselves, certainly it helps to be an athlete. I'm not saying that's not part of it, but anybody. Can do those things and effort should be the expectation That should be the minimum. Now it's putting the time in to make sure that I do those things. But anybody on a basketball court can rebound and defend to the best of their ability. All right, I'm a high school coach. I'm a parent and I'm saying, coach K, I've got this great kid. She's averaging 25. She makes five threes a night. What don't they understand about your league? And they need to understand for you to even recruit a kid like that. So it's really unique how many emails you get. Yep. That say, this kid could be a game changer for you. She could they think they know. Yeah. And I appreciate that. They think they know. But I was doing some research yesterday'cause I was actually talking to a coach who was talking to me about his kid and I said, you do know that the Northern Sun is the number one league in the country based on the Massey ratings. I said the number two league in the country is the other team that's in our region, and currently the number three team in the country is also in our region. So the top three teams in the nation, or the top three leagues in the nation are all in the same region. So there's gonna take some other pieces like what's their court sense like? Are they coachable? Are they a great teammate? Do they understand that this league is, everybody's gonna be good. Somebody else has got a team that, that has a player that's making five threes a night that's averaging 20 points a game and they're doing it in college. Yeah. So like understanding that those are all great numbers, but there's, that doesn't just mean they're gonna walk into the Northern Sun or to any division two league. Average 25 and five. Like there, there's a growth for every player that comes in, especially from that high school level. The speed of the game is different. The physicality of the game is crazy different. You know what I mean? You look at Colorado, Mesa and the way that they're, you know what they're doing right now on the women's side, and you look at Olivia Reed and the number of rebounds and points that she puts in the hoop and coming outta high school, she was a really good basketball player. But I don't even know if Houston, who is a northern guy, so I can if Houston saw that Olivia was gonna be this kind of player or if Olivia saw that. So it takes a lot Yeah. Both directions to use what you've got. It's great. She can shoot, it's great. She's averaging 25, but she's gonna have to work to be that kind of player at our level. How much of it is, can you take a punch, and I hate to use that analogy, and get your butt back up and go again. A hundred percent is, can you take a punch? Can you punch back? Can you be the person that delivers the first punch? And on a night where you've taken several punches, what else can you do if your shot isn't going to the hoop? Nobody tries to miss. You don't get your five threes'cause somebody's just taking you out of the game. How can you impact the game someplace else? What are the other pieces you can bring, because you've been punched, like they're keying on you. They're not, they don't want you to get 25. They don't want you to get off your five three. So what's next? Can you shut off the person that's. That you're supposed to guard can you balance that by being a defender? Can you create opportunities for yourself by crashing the glass like a mad person? So you get to the free throw line. What are the things when that doesn't work, that you can bring Yeah I, those kids that you want to be physical that aren't there yet. I find myself, over the years, I've always used this analogy, you get home and you see your doors kicked open and you hear screams in your house. Are you the kid that goes hides in the bushes? Are you the kid that runs to the neighbor's house and calls the police? Are you the kid that runs in to save the day? And I don't think we know that about ourselves until we're in that situation. And when you go from high school to D two, and I don't care how good your high school was, if you go from high school to D two, if you can't figure out that you can be that kid that can run in the house and have that courage. It's not for, it's not for the faint of heart. You're right. It's not for the faint of heart and it's, it a little bit it's going to battle and who you're going to battle with. We do a unique thing here, maybe not unique, but it's been unique to us. We do the foxhole test at the beginning of the year. I do too. To create to create our leadership group. We don't have captains. We have a leadership group and we have our team put those people in the foxhole that they know. Would step in front of the train would get in front in a battle, not because they're your best friends on the basketball off the basketball court, or they're your best friends on it. Who are those people that if you were going to war, I know this kid. I trust them to stand in front of me. They are gonna, they are gonna have my back, my front, and my side. And so that's been really good for me from a coaching standpoint to see which. Teammates, they really feel are those people that would run into the fire, that would go into save those people. And there have been a couple times I've been surprised, and then there have been times where I'm like yep, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. It's, the surprises are great. Because you. Because it's'cause they found something that maybe they didn't even know they had and they wanted Absolutely. Maybe they wanted their whole life. Maybe they've been thinking about being that person and it took going to college to reinvent themselves. For sure. That's joyful. Yeah. It's pretty cool. Let's put you on the court at one of those big, crazy AAU tournaments that none of us like, but we all do because we have to. What are some of the things that. Jump out at you while you're sitting there watching a game, you're like, okay let's see a little bit more. I like that. I think that every coach probably has that it thing that they see, but I'm a gut recruiter and I'm not gonna lie to anybody that comes in here. I am not the easiest person to play for because my expectations are. What they are. And I've been doing this a long time. So there's a toughness piece that I see that I notice and it's in that it's the dive on the ball on the floor. It's the ability to set the screen and not be the person that has to score it. It's the ugly stuff. I guess that stands out to me a little bit. I think you can go to a court and look and say. We all know who the kid that can put the ball in the hoop is like they, you can see it right? Like that? Yeah. Yeah. It, that's not a difficult challenge for anyone, but can they play the way that fits me and our program and this school? Do they have those it things? My gut will usually tell me that and sometimes like at an a U tournament just how they respond to. An official because those guys are on their 27th game in a row. And like how do you carry yourself, how do you respond to your coach? How do you pick a teammate up? How do you take it when a teammate kinda gets in your grill because you didn't call out the screen and they just got leveled because you didn't communicate? Like how do you embrace those things? So I like to look at the ugly. A little bit like the things that maybe you don't obviously they've gotta be able to put things on a STA sheet. I'm not gonna tell you that, man. If you can't, if you can't shoot and you can't handle the ball and that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is we already know that piece. Like we've seen those pieces. Now I need to see the nitty gritty. Are you a rebounder? Are you a scrapper? If the coach challenges you and said, Hey, somebody just fouled out and you gotta guard the post and you're only five eight, whatcha gonna do? Yeah. Are you gonna front? Are you gonna fight tooth and nail? Are you gonna do everything physically possible? Do you know what it means to empty your tank? Help parents out. When's the last time you went to one of those tournaments? Even a local tournament? South Dakota, where five teams, 10 teams, a hundred teams. Doesn't matter where? You didn't have a list of girls you were there to see? I haven't. Okay. I think that's the big fallacy for parents is that you showed up in that gym to find your next recruiting class. You're at that gym because you already know that your next recruiting class is correct. Now, that doesn't mean. That I don't add Right. One or two or three to a list. That's right. But if I'm going there, it's not to find my list, it's because I have a list and that's where they're playing if that Yeah. You get, you don't have to go to 10 high schools, you can see 10 of your top 20 in one place. Correct. Yes. And you're hoping that you find those three or four more that surprise you and you didn't know about. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Talk a little bit. About volume. And how many kids you need to see to maybe just find the one that is maybe recruitable or maybe you're gonna go after how many are you looking at to get to that one? Sure. Two different perspectives when I was at the Colorado School of Mines, because it is such a yeah, very focused educational piece, that list was far greater to find those people first that could attempt and be successful at that school. Because of the academic expectation there. I feel like my list had to be bigger just to find. The 10 or 15 that would be successful academically and that could be accepted into that institution. While it presented challenges, I found it to be you knew exactly who could get in and who couldn't. If they didn't have grades and they didn't have the thing, you could take'em off a list. That's right. And so at Mines, the list was a little bit bigger. At Northern, we're a highly academic institution, but we're a liberal arts institution, so you've got so many more majors and so many places you can change. You don't have to be a math and science. Person. If you wanna be a nurse, you wanna be a teacher, you wanna go into business marketing, you wanna go into entrepreneurial studies, you wanna be a PE teacher a pt, whatever you wanna be. We've got lots of avenues here I didn't have to worry so much about. Can they find what they wanna study here? Have they taken Calc two at this level and correct Physics three and right? Yes. So the pathways were different. I am not a mass recruiter. That is not how I'm wired because the relationships are still really important to me. Because of the social things that I have and because of the relationships I'm still able to have with the people that coached me, that was ingrained in me early. So I feel it's really hard for me to build really lasting relationships or the right kind of relationships with 30 people. That's too many for me. Now, that doesn't mean my list doesn't have 30 in it that we watch, but I'm gonna take those five or six that are at the top of that list. Those are mine. Your time is your time and energy is going into those product. My time is into those five or six. Doesn't mean I won't watch the others, doesn't mean that I don't get my, when my assistant does the calendar coach, it's your week to send out the notes. It's your week to make the phone calls, it's whatever. I'm gonna do that. But with those five, those are the ones that, Hey, kb, we need to get these kids to campus. I need to be the first point of contact. Like that. Yeah. Those five are quote unquote mine and we know that going in now. That's how I've done it. Sometimes it works out great. You put all your eggs in that basket of those five kids, and if you don't get any of those five. Those other 1520 still have had to had relationship with you. You still have had to have conversations. You still have had to be present. But I spend more time early with those five building that, getting them to campus, doing that kind of thing if that makes sense. Yeah. And so my list is a little bit shorter. At Northern that it probably wasn't mines for for those reasons. I'm also very big on high school kids, so my roster next year has seven sophomores, four freshmen. One junior. We still have a, we're still working on a couple kids. I am a coach that will fill with junior college and with the portal, but I build, my core is built around kids that I hope I can get and stay and have'em for three, four years and have them for that 3, 4, 5 year, yeah. Timeframe. It presents a unique challenge because. Everybody wants to play, and that's not realistic. When you've got seven sophomores and four freshmen, there are going to be freshmen that are gonna have to wait. There are gonna be sophomores that are gonna have to wait. There might be a junior that has to wait depending on what the people below. But I think if I can give any wisdom to a freshman, that's a high school kid that's being recruited, that's gonna come in as a freshman, then to the sophomore that's there. My job as a coach is to go recruit people. They're gonna push you to be better, right? That no one no one really likes that you don't wanna think about, like I had a kid say so you're actively trying to replace me. Once that was a question to me as their coach, and I said, no, I'm not trying to replace you. I'm trying to make sure that I get the most. Of you and that the people that come in are good enough to make sure you need to be at your best every day. Yeah. I'm not trying to replace, I'm trying to build, I'm trying to make everybody, and I'm trying to lift up, and if in that process it happens that someone becomes better than you, that's the reality of. My job. Yeah. And that's a hard thing for people to understand. I think the other part is, as a freshman coming in, understanding that everybody, you play against the other people on your team, there's competition within your team. There's competition against outside teams, but you all still have to end up on that same page of wanting what's best for the whole, for being. Part of something greater than yourself. And when you're a freshman and you wanna come in and you wanna play, some of you will. But there was a blip to from the coach at Duluth, the men's coach, and he had a group that stayed together and he had two kids that hadn't played a minute until they were seniors and they just won in the second they're playing in the championship of the region tournament. And they waited, they stayed. They didn't go. They bought into the core. They bought into the we is greater than me that we all talk about. And that's hard. Yeah. And if you can't realistically really look at that and put yourself in that spot and say, I can do that, you're gonna find yourself on the outside looking in. And that's a hard thing for an 18-year-old kid to understand. It's hard thing for their parents to understand because parents, they have rose colored glasses. You have to you're their mom, you're their dad. And so being realistic is hard. That's a tough thing. Them understanding that you constantly have to be moving the end zone, the goalposts with your program. Yes. Or you're going backwards. If you're not moving that end zone and the goals and the kids don't understand, hey, I'm bringing in this six four center, not to take your place, but. So you have to move that end zone and how you work and what, how you prepare and your nutrition Absolutely. And your sleep. And what are you gonna do differently next year that you didn't do this year? So I want to get the portal, I wanna touch it a little bit. Because I know how important relationships are to you. I'm talking to coaches that are recruiting, talking, signing in 24, 48 hours. Yes. How in the heck do you handle that? Your frame of mind as a coach and how you've recruited how? Yeah. I didn't have to deal with the portal so much when I was at Maryville. We were in the Great Lakes Valley. We had a, yep, great conference. D one kids were coming in all the time. This was Preport. But I love, like you, I love the development. I wanted that kid for 3, 4, 5 years. How are you handling that transaction? It's kinda like speed dating. Yeah. Like you're having to make, first of all, you're having to, you're having to get them excited in that very first conversation. Like they have to know Northern State. Like number one on attendance, the facility, the like those things have to what's gonna grab them so that I can have that, that next call and get'em here on a visit and those pieces. And at my level we've looked at the portal just a little bit different. Are there kids in there that I had, that I'd built a relationship with that chose someplace else initially that are now in there? So that's the, those are the first that, that I look for. Like I had a relationship in fact. I've had three transfers in the last two years that were all kids I recruited outta high school that ended up coming back and finishing their career here. I had two last year that I didn't previous, excuse me, previously know, but I knew their college coach and was able to reach out to one of them and build it. And then I spent a lot of time on the phone building relationships, trying to get'em here, now that you don't have to, you used to be only, you could call only once a week. And now you can call people probably don't even remember that, but now you can call a lot. So I was doing that and the video chats and FaceTimes and there's so many avenues to go down. And I think that part of it is they've gotta trust you in that first initial, that first impression has gotta be. It's gotta be, right? That's so much, I think first impressions matter all the time, but I think in the portal, to me that's like top-notch. My impression of them when I'm talking to them on the phone. Yeah. Their impression of me. Their impression of our program. So like you get into that whole, like that branding and what are they gonna find out if they search Northern State right now? What are they gonna find out about me? If they go to my Twitter or my ex, they go to my Insta. What are they gonna see? What is, who am I and what and who are Northern state and the wolves? And I think that is really a big piece. And I think kids in the portal have to do their due diligence and I'm afraid that not all of them. Are being coached in that direction. And the old adage the grass is greener where you water it is something that's been a little bit lost. And that's not a fault on, it's not, I'm not, it's not a fault on players. I understand. I think there are really good reasons. To transfer. And I think there are really tough reasons to transfer. If you lose your academic program, if there's a coaching change, if there's been a family emergency and you need to be closer to home if they drop your academic program. Like those make sense to me. The ones that are hard for me are, I'm not playing enough yet. I'm not this, and you, all of a sudden you, you lose what it meant to be. Part of the team, sure. And I don't mean that in a negative way because there are really legitimate reasons for people to transfer and and if it's not working and it's not a fit and you feel like there's gonna be happiness and joy someplace else, that's better too. Because as coaches, I think we've all looked at that next step. What's that job that. Can we climb a ladder? Can we become better? And so it's not a fault that way, it's just understanding why I am transferring the reasons behind it. And is this going to be better for me in the long run? Otherwise you have to look at it as, I'm gonna be recruiting you in a year.'cause if you don't play here right away. We're gonna be in the same boat. I'm gonna have to replace you. Yeah. And they don't understand that red flag. It's, there has to be a destination in the recruiting process. I have to see it as this is my goal to grow. Correct. To get into this program, to build a family to build a culture, I wanna be a part of that. And that means there has to be sacrifice. There has to be time that I have to understand that I'm gotta get better to be a part of this family. I'm not just coming in and they're gonna hand me a package and that's it. It's, I've gotta come in and grow into this. And that's my struggle with it. Yeah, and I think understanding opportunity as a young player coming into college basketball and what opportunity actually looks like, because there's no way that everyone's gonna play equal minutes and that you're gonna play 15 people and that those kinds of things. And I just think that if high school coaches and parents and kids. Could grasp that coming in, and I know it's hard. Everybody wants to play and not everybody wants to wait their turn, but at the same time. What are the things that, that opportunity to go to that university is affording you already your education, your teammates the location, the the travel that the games that you get to go play, the places that you get to go see opportunity is so often tied just to minutes. And when you get into the portal and you're only looking at that portion of it. I think that's where you find out when you look at this over half the people that get in don't find a new home. That's right. And PE people don't understand that or know that. Now if you wanna go someplace where you can play right away and you're like, coach, I got an NAI school that I really liked I gave it my shot. And I'm, that's from, I can understand that. I can get that if it's like I said, the coaching changes, academic changes. I just fear that it happened also fast, that we just weren't able to educate. Enough on what it's really like when you get in there. Yeah. It's it worries me for kids. Me too. It's happened so fast. Again, it's no one taught us how to coach. Nobody's taught these families how to deal with the portal and NIL and everything that's come with these last two, three years. And it's just been a waterfall of learning. And so where do you go? You go to the person that says, Hey, I'll help you, and it's an agent. That doesn't care whether or not they get you placed. They just need a bigger portfolio or Correct. You're gonna get an extra 5,000 and they're gonna take a thousand of it. It's, that's we, they often listen to the wrong people. And that's where that circle and having people that are knowledgeable in it and not being afraid to ask questions and ask the tough ones and finding that like you and I are, we're old coaches now. We've been doing this for a long time. So if you ask me, I'm gonna coach a kid to make sure that when you leave, you're leaving for the right reasons. Yep. And don't expect that just because you leave. That it's gonna be completely different someplace else. It's not, and some of the things that may be different aren't gonna be the things that you wanted to change. Yeah. Finding that priority of what matters is when is the last time that you've heard anybody talk about their at the really big level, what their major is, what they're gonna study. Like when is the last time that a kid asked the, at a FCS level in football? Hey, can I study? I don't know, environmental science and science at your university? Like, when is that? No. That's, it's not a thing right now. And that's what's scary to me about the portal is that the priorities of what I thought college athletics. We're built on, have shifted a little bit. And it's some of it is great and it's here, I it's here to stay. So figuring out how to use it and how to making it an advantage and all of those things like, yeah, absolutely. On the other side of that, if I'm a student athlete, I'm really gonna wanna be educated on what that's because the Grays Abels of the world that stayed at North Dakota State and end up at, end up at Seahawks and the Super Bowl champions. You don't see those every day. No. Did you see that stat that came out last week of the Power four men's basketball? Only 22 kids on all those rosters are gonna finish. The same school they started with. Yeah. 22. Yeah. That's, it's, that's absolutely that's the part that's crazy for me. And that's where I could see why there are some of those, the coaches that are older that have gotten out recently, like they're just, they're done because it, it's too much of a change. For them. I, the, it's all transactional. Who wants to do that all day? I just say it's become, yeah. It's become a business that the transactional piece of it is not why most of us got into coaching. Yeah. You've been so generous with your time. Coach. Give one piece of advice to kids that wanna play at your level or play for you. How do they, how should they go about it? And maybe what should that prep look like before they even reach out to you? I am, I might be different and you might hear from another coach, but I think all of us want honesty, and I don't like the emails that tell me how great you are. And that kind of thing. Hey, this is if you can tell me who you are, not how great you are, but who you are and you know what you're looking for and that you've researched, like when I get an email and it's got the wrong school at the top one of those don't do that. Don't be the, don't be the form email person. If you sincerely think Northern State is someplace you wanna go. I will 100% sincerely give you a look if when you reach out to me, you know a little bit about what Northern State is and it's in this day and age, it's easy to find that. Yeah, but don't send me an email that was meant to go to Fort Lewis and I get it and then I get the email back that says, oh, I'm so sorry. That, that kind of thing. I think just being consistent in your message. Being honest about who you are and what it is that you want from college basketball and from a university. That holistic feel. Those are important things for me. I just think the honesty piece about, what you, what do you want? What are you looking for? And you've seen that Northern does, Northern has X, Y, Z, like we just got a new nursing program and a brand new building. Don't email me and say, do you have nursing? Because our nursing program is all over. So easy to find out. Yeah it's easy to do a little bit of research and it's better for you to know some of those things up front. In my opinion, and it makes it easier because you can then like if there's four schools or man, I really could see myself going there. Research those four schools. Find out about those four, contact those four individually with your why, your who, and then allow that coach to decide Hey, I'm gonna, we're gonna pursue this. We're gonna we're gonna build that. Coach, thank you. I'm so grateful for your time. I'm so happy for you. Thank you. This journey you've been on and so thankful for the kids that get to play for you and the staff that get to be around you and your wisdom and what you bring to our game and our world. And I hope one day I get to work my way into the Coach K Circle. I'm that's a big goal of mine now, but thank you. Just keep plugging. You'll get there. I appreciate you very much. What you're doing is special, Matt. You're special. And trust me, I'm getting more out of this than you are. I've learned so much today. And I feel like I have so much to share with coaches and kids and parents. Because of it. So thank you. Get some rest. Awesome. Hope you get some real time away and I'm so glad your husband whipped you away to Florida and I hope more of that's coming and absolutely. Please stay in touch. I'll look forward to future conversations. Absolutely. Thanks so much, Matt. That's a wrap. A big thank you to coach Paula Krueger for taking time out of her busy schedule to talk, coaching, recruiting, and leadership with us. She was a pure joy and I'm excited to see all she will do moving forward. As a reminder for all of our new listeners, if you're looking for help navigating your family's college journey, you can find my recruiting resources and schedule a free recruiting strategy session with me@coachmattrogers.com. I am also available to speak at your local club, school, or organization to help your athletes, parents, and coaches better understand the recruiting realities athletes, parents and coaches are facing today. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control. Stay humble and keep chasing significance.