Episode #164: Coleman Lee

🎙️ Coleman Lee: Doing It Your Way and Building a Winner |  Ep. 164

In this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, Matt Rogers sits down with Central Methodist University Head Volleyball Coach Coleman Lee, who has led the Eagles to six straight NAIA National Tournament appearances.

Coleman shares how his program is built through high-level training, long-term player development, and a commitment to doing the work—especially in those early years when nothing is guaranteed.

They dive into the realities of recruiting in today’s landscape, the impact of the transfer portal, and why developing freshmen has been essential to CMU’s success.

The conversation also explores leadership, team culture, and how intentional relationship-building—from book studies to “speed dating” teammate exercises—has shaped his teams both on and off the court.

This is a real look at what it takes to build something that lasts.

🔗 Learn more about Coleman Lee:
 https://www.cmueagles.com/sports/wvball/coaches/Lee_Coleman?view=bio

🎙️ Significant Coaching Podcast – Episode 164
 🎯 Followed by Significant Recruiting – Episode 165

🎧 Listen: coachmattrogers.com/podcast
 📺 Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@CoachMattRogers

Transcript

0:09

On the latest edition of The Significant Coaching Podcast, a presentation of the coach Matt Rogers YouTube channel. Available audio only everywhere you get your favorite podcast. I'm your host Matt Rogers. This week we're joined by Coleman Lee. Head volleyball coach at Central Methodist University in Missouri and one of the best coach role models in the country at doing it your way and not worrying about what anyone else has to say about it. 169 wins, six straight national tournament appearances. That doesn't happen by accident. I love it when coaches, I've never met, surprise me when I get to speak to them for the first time on the podcast. They think different. They coach different, they have a plan that's unique to them, but they are never afraid to divert from that plan if they find a way to do it better. They understand that the figuring stuff out part of coaching is the best part of coaching. Coleman Lee was that coach for me. He's inspiring, he's fun, but he can be intense because he doesn't like to lose, and he sees losing as a personal challenge to get better every day. I hope you enjoy his great character and passion as much as I did. If you're enjoying the podcast, make sure you favorite it, subscribe and leave a comment. Those go a long way in helping us continue to grow. All right, let's get into it. Here's my conversation with the fantastic Coleman Lee. Lee, so great to see you. Thanks for being on the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. Man, you've had a great run. You're averaging 24 wins a season. When you got there at CMU, they'd never been to the national tournament before, right? that's correct. At, with the current national tournament, I think they had maybe been in some sort of regional tournament, but not to the final site. Like we had talk a little bit about behind the scenes of taking a program for word been for years. And now you guys are on this great run. What's some of that what you're doing to create the consistency that you're doing? What's changed? I mean, for us, it starts with training. We're in Fayette, Missouri, so obviously I'm not getting, um, all of the top kids every single year. We've had some really good recruits come in. Some kids that have been all Americans, but if you look at that, a lot of them are getting that recognition by the end of their career and it's because they work so hard in the gym with us. I like to think that we train at a very high level. You know, I've had good assistant coaches in the past who have, who have been in division one programs. Garrett, who was with me forever, had been at Missouri State when they were really, really solid with Coach Stokes and made a run there. So he, he knew what it took to train at the division one level. And that along with my experience, I think we kind of got us started there. And then, you know, we just, you know, we just, We just continued it. Every single year, we know that we're going to have to recruit hard. We're probably going to have to start with some freshmen and sophomores that, that may or may not see the floor right away. And then by their third and fourth years, they're going to have to be competing at the same level as some of the schools who get You know, kids that should be in a division one or a division two program. That's really what we have to strive for in the gym every day to train to make sure that by the end of their careers, these kids are playing at that same level. I love that with the portal. And the movement that goes on in college sports. Now, it's real easy for a college coach to say, you know what, we're going to recruit late, we're going to bring in, we're going to bring in that 20 year old, that's got two years of experience in the weight room. Sounds like you really enjoy bringing in those freshmen and developing them. Well, it's not about enjoying all the time. I would love to get a transfer. The problem for us is, and it's a great town. We're located. Equally distant between Kansas City and St. Louis, um, not far from Columbia, but a lot of these kids, once they've already been at a university, especially, you know, at the Division I level, what the portal did was show them so many more opportunities to stay at that level. Before the portal, I actually, I had a Division I transfer setter. Um, one year when we, we did really well at nationals, we actually won our pool and upset, Southern Oregon, who I think was a five seed at the time. So there was a time where I could get some of those transfers, but now what the portal has done is, is proven that. You know, even if one Division 1 school didn't work out for you, that doesn't mean that you need to leave the Division 1 level. Before, some of those kids felt like, Okay, you know, I wanted to go Division 1, didn't work out for me, I didn't get the playing time I wanted, I didn't get the role I wanted, so I'm gonna look at these other levels. Now, it's like, well, I didn't play at this Division 1, but my gosh, here are all of these other schools at the same level that are interested in me, so I'm gonna look at all of these other schools. It's not that I wouldn't love, um, a transfer here and there. We've had some pretty good luck with Division Two transfers. I've got a good relationship with Johnson County and their coaches. Um, we've had quite a few of their girls, um, one who actually won a national championship and came and played three, three years then for us who was a, a big time contributor, but the, the portal works out really, really well for, I think schools that. May not have been on the radar in the beginning of the process, but still have some allure for the kids, you know, great locations, good weather, um, it could be, you know, the, the types of programs that they offer. So, it does work out well for us to go ahead and, and train these freshmen, especially kids that have came from my club, who kind of already understand how I operate, how I coach, how I train. But it's, I am not going to lie, the portal would make it pretty easy for anyone to be successful. Coach, you and I both, we talked before we clicked record, we both have a relationship with Candace Motes at Indiana Wesleyan and the great run she's had. You give off that sense, I mean, you and I have talked for 10 minutes, you sound like one of those great club coaches. I mean, you're just a grinder and you, to run a club like you do and be a college coach. You gotta grind because you're, you're, you're dealing with so many different personalities, so many different external things that are coming your way, not just parents and coaches, but so much that you have to do as an administrator, what do you think it takes for a coach? Let's say a coach is coming in to be in a head college coach for that first time. And maybe like you has kind of had a program that hasn't had a ton of success before they got there. What does that look like from. Your brain and your soul to turn that around. What do you, what do you have to do to kind of say this is going to be different? We're going to be unique. I mean, you have to be committed to the process. I would say where I'm at now in my career, um, I get a lot more freedom than I did when I started. Now I've kind of got it rolling how I wanted. I know what drills work for us. I know the tendencies of the other teams and coaches in conference. I'm not spending hours every night, um, on film and things like that. So... It gets easier, but in those first two years, you just have to be fully committed to the time that it's going to take to bring in the right kids and then develop the right way. My first couple years at CMU, I had no life. I mean, I was texting kids from 8 a.m. Till 10 p.m. Finding out what they did that day, what their hobbies are, you know, how practice went, how was school. Hey, you told me so-and-so was your, you know, your favorite teacher. How was class today? Because that's literally what it took. For me to get the right kids to put us on the map. Once we had a couple successful years, it was like, whoa, I've heard of CMU Volleyball. I know Coach Lee. I've seen him at tournaments, you know. I know what they've done. And the entire process got easier. It was easier to recruit kids. It was easier to train because we knew what we had to do to be successful. Um, what defenses work in our conference, what defenses we're going to have to run when we play better and bigger teams when we have to change blocking schemes and, you know, even serving patterns to just hopefully get teams out of system. So those first two years. You really just have to be prepared to devote your entire life and your time to putting a team on the map. And then you just have to realize the payoff is three, four years down the road to where you can, you can take a breath and you can look back and be like, okay, we're, we're running now. We know how this goes every year. Let's just, let's stay with it. I'm smiling. Cause I know exactly what you went through. You know, I, I took over a program at Maryville and they just, they were plummeting, you know, they'd won six games. The roster was gone. I think I had three kids on my roster when I took over, I was working 80 hour weeks and they were paying me 7,000 a year, you know, it was just. It's all I did was recruit for those three years to bring, to put a program together. I love that you use the word freedom and, and the big difference was you as more freedom. I'm intrigued. was it the pressure that you were putting on yourself? Was it coming from the administration? When did that, what was that freedom that you received that you felt like, okay, I've got this. It's going the way I want to. Where did that come from? You know, our first successful year at CMU, um, was actually, I was actually the assistant. Right. Um, so our first trip to the national tournament, I was the assistant. So I have to give a lot of kudos, um, to Allison, the head coach. She's now at Columbia College. She... understood and trusted my vision that I had for the team. She had had some successful years at CMU, um, some 21 seasons when honestly they probably should have had at least a chance at getting in a, at a large bid. Right. And they just kept getting overlooked. So she brought me in and she was like, you know, what, what do we need to do? So, like I said, we, we changed the drills that we were running. We changed positionals. She gave me absolute control of recruiting. I came on as a recruiting coordinator and assistant coach. I brought in different kids and we just needed. We needed someone to see us. So we went to bigger tournaments, we went to better tournaments. We went out to Bellevue. Trish out there has been uber successful at Bellevue. And I told her the first year that we were in, I was like, this is what I want. We get four games. I want three of those games. To be national tournament contenders. I, we have to see people who are going to the national tournament. We've got to see how we can do, and then, you know, you want, you want to take home a win. It's early on in the season. You don't want to drive out to Omaha and go 0-4 and then try and, you know, bounce back for conference play. So it's like, you know, give me, give me three games that are really going to test me, test the team, test Allison. And a game that we can win and feel good about. Every year I told her the same thing. And it was like, 3-1, 3-1. One year we went 4-0. And it was just crazy that these people are like, You know, there was even, It was funny, one coach was like, Hey, we've played CMU every year at this tournament. Like, you know, so we went from that underdog, To where teams not only recognized us, some teams were like, you know, we went, we were now that team that somebody was like, hey, they're a national tournament caliber team, we either want to play them or we don't, you know, when I think before we would have probably been that, hey, get CMU on our schedule, you know, like that's one game that we know we can take, um, And I wouldn't necessarily say that it was pressure put on by administration. I will say I'm very competitive. I hate losing anything, anything. My president might be just as competitive as I am. I mean, he is the same way. He sets all CMU teams. Up for success. So there were some things already in the works at CMU that I was like, hey, you know, I can use that. You know, I can take advantage of that. Some different scholarships and things that that I knew what types of kids would would fit into those roles. So I wouldn't necessarily say it was any extra pressure put on by admin. CMU is pretty successful in most sports we've had. There was one year, um, that literally every single one of our teams, every sports programs, at least made opening round in nationals. Crazy. That's unheard of. Yeah, I mean, we have, well, you know, if we talked about Candace earlier, that's like an Indiana Wesleyan thing. If you look at their sports programs, if you pull up their schedules and their calendars, everybody's ranked. It's like everybody's good that you know, every year, if you play IWU in any sport, it's going to be a dog fight. That's just what you're ready for. And there have been years at CMU where, you know, us as a staff felt that way. But I think my. My motivation has always came within myself. I just do not like to be unsuccessful. I like to feel good about myself as a person and I feel like the way that I can consistently do that is to perform to a level that I'm comfortable with. I don't want to let myself down, um, I'm my harshest critic, but I'm also my biggest supporter. So it's pretty easy for me to say like, okay, this is, this is what you need to do to be successful. But this is what you need to do to sustain it. And whenever you do sustain it, this is going to be the payoff. Like I said, you've got it rolling now. So maybe you were working three hours a night in the beginning of just doing this one thing. Now that's one thing you take off your plate. Obviously, you've got to get better every year. Our conference is so tough. And it gets tough for every year. We had PARC. We had MOBAP. Grandview was really good this year. So, I mean, you obviously have to keep grinding every single year. I'm not saying it gets easy. But I'm saying processes... Become more consistent and you just learn what works and what doesn't you just come off as the guy that that get out of my way. I'm going to, we're going to get it done. You know, if you give me a crack, I'm going to get, I'm going to, I'm going to break it open and we're going to get her done. So I just love that about you, man. And I'm, I'm honestly surprised you didn't get a head coach job before that. I know you were coaching at the high school level and were an assistant, but you you're just dynamic. You're the type of. I'd want my kids to play for and you're the type of club director I wish was more prevalent here where I live in Colorado because then I appreciate that a lot. I take what I do super seriously, so I appreciate that a lot. Well, I love your passion. There's too many straight face. You know, no, they don't communicate well. They don't like my girls with the kids. And the last thing my girls would say is straight faced. Everything that I'm feeling is here. You're gonna see all that. There's no, no question at all. I was, I was the same way, man. I was the exact same way. Um, How intentional are you? I want to roll into leadership a little bit. How intentional are you in building leadership within your team versus letting it emerge naturally or just finding great leaders to bring into your program? Where's that balance with you? That's a great question. And honestly, outside of recruiting, um, that's probably, The toughest thing that I have to deal with. We had a few years where, like I told you before, um, you know, I had club kids come in that were fifth years for us. Um, who had already been under my leadership in the club. They knew what I would put up with, but they knew absolutely, you did not want to step outside those boundaries. I mean, they knew exactly what that looked like. I would say any, you know, I'm lucky now. My first year starting the club, I tried to coach a team myself and it was, it was awful. Uh, you know, obviously my team had to be, my time had to be with them. So I would be at a tournament with my team and something would come up and, you know, it was just like a fire that I couldn't put out. Now I'm super lucky just in the director role. If a coach says, Hey, you know. I can't be at a tournament. I'm gonna be out of town or we have coaches that do two teams. Hey, you've got to go take this squad. I'm able to just jump and go. The funny thing is, those girls get so well prepared for the next level because I don't, I don't sugarcoat anything with my club girls. Like, you are going to see, if I'm coaching you on the sideline, you're going to see and hear exactly what it would be like to be on the sideline. To be on a college sideline right now. So those kids are so well prepared once they get to any squad that the ones that I'm lucky enough to get to CMU, they're naturally our leaders. Like you said, where you don't, you're not having, yeah, you're not having to train anything when you lose those kids. It's really, really hard to replace. And that's where the training part comes in. You know, we had to deal with that last year where, um, I had two new captains. We had lost someone that we thought we were going to lose anyways. We thought she was going to go do a grad year. So I had at least kind of prepared myself. Emotionally for for that loss. I was like, okay, this is what's gonna happen. Luckily enough. Um, she decided to come back So it's like okay, we get one more year with her to kind of you know The her leadership skills to wear off on everybody else So we were able to kind of transition and I was able to have those conversations about you know Like this is what you're going to be doing next year. And then we started a book study and we went over what the traits of leaders actually were, like, what do you think that you exhibit right now as a leader? What can you bring to the table? Okay, we've read this, we've read these two books, what are the traits that we need to work on? what are the things that you've found that, you know, you've defined as a good leader that you just don't have? And how can we fix that? And, uh, you know, I feel like we did the best that we could. Um, this year was the first year that I wasn't able to make the national tournament in the entire time that I've been at CMU. So, a lot of people would say that's, you know, that's probably a disappointing season. I myself would. Like I said, I'm, I'm my harshest critic. We had a lot of new faces in the lineup. We had replaced a lot of, of big, big names. roles in the lineup, but I will say working with my girls now in the spring, the shift that we've made mentally, um, and the culture that we've built now, what I'm seeing in the spring would not have been What I expected, like I was really worried this was going to be another year of, okay, we're losing two kids who have been in the program ever since they started, you know, they weren't transfers, they had been with us the whole time. And I've been really pleasantly surprised with what we've seen so far in the spring. It's great. It's exciting, isn't it? It's what you hope for there that light switch goes off and they're like, okay, I got to step it up. I got to be more consistent. I got to stop listening so much to coaches tone and I got to start hearing the words, you know, it's one of the girls have to have those relationships too. That's one of the things, you know, this year we brought in, um, she's a counselor on campus, but I guess kind of, uh, just a guest speaker. And it was so weird for me to sit in the corner, she would ask questions, and we would all just kind of like, stare at each other. And as a coach, you're like, do we not, do we not know the answer to this? Because I mean, this, these aren't, these aren't tough questions. But then I thought about it, and I was like, whoa, we're actually not comfortable talking in front of each other. Like, we're, the reason we're not answering is we're afraid. What each or each other is going to think like that shouldn't be the case on a volleyball team. We should be able to have whatever open conversations that we want. And if you say something that's wrong or wasn't the exact answer, we're not going to judge you where your family like this is where you can. Say those things so after that meeting I was like, okay, something's got to change We've got a lot of great girls who are super supportive Really positive pat each other on the back when things aren't going well Um chat in the lunch room when you're having a bad day, but we don't actually know each other. We're not actually comfortable Just being together, um, so we brought back something that I've used in the past, um, it's, I just call it speed dating, and I mean the girls just have to spend whatever amount of time that I decide, um, the day, I, I send a rotation, they speed date. I make the girls choose what activity that they do, you know, and it can be based on something they like something they're good at something they've always wanted to try. And, you know, we've got some really cool. We've had some really cool ideas out of it. Of course, they have to share. Um, we have a group chat. So every day, you know, they share what they. Did with each other. Um, we had like they did some blind makeup challenges. Um, they colored pictures. And I mean, they were great. You can tell they actually spent time on them. And we honestly, the those relationships of just sitting down with someone. and talking to them outside of volleyball and learning what they like. It makes being a part of a team in those tough situations so much easier. This is my 35th year of coaching and it still shocks me that I'll wake up or I'll have a conversation with a great coach like you and we'll get into something. I'm like, how did I never look at it from that perspective? You know, just all the things that we don't understand. And I'm finding more and more talking to parents and kids and coaches, both sides, often a coach will be like, I feel like my team's doing great. And then the next day something will happen and you'll find out there's this huge, huge divide in your program that you didn't even know was happening. Or there's kids that were struggling and. You know, they just covered it up. They never talked about it. They never showed it. It's every single day. And you know, like that's something that you have to realize going into coaching. I, I think. You definitely want to have different personalities on your squad. Like that's a goal for all of us. You don't want to coach the same kid. Um, and I feel like having different personalities, that's something that's been very successful for us in the past because we're so diverse, you know, the, so it almost forces the kids to want to get to know each other. But then you also have to realize when you're doing that, when you're bringing in 20 different kids, and I think, you know, it's, it's probably My background in education and just knowing that there are different learning styles. It's the same thing with your athletes, you know, you're not going to be able to reach everybody the same exact way, but also the kids aren't going to just go out. And, you know, immerse themselves in front of their teammates the same way either. You've got to find other ways for them to spend that time together and for that time to be meaningful. Um, you know, because like I said, they're not, they don't all have the same personalities. Not all the same kids are going to, you know, gravitate towards each other. So you've got to find other ways for them to realize like, Hey, this probably wasn't a person that... At the beginning of the year, I would have said is gonna be my best friend on the team. But since we've done this activity, a couple of the girls have flat out said like because of this. I now spend more time with this person, like because of the activities that we did or because of what I learned about them. We have so much more in common than I would have ever thought before. And you know, that's what it's still a learning process for me every day. I'm not saying our culture is perfect. And like you said, tomorrow, somebody could come up in my room and say that they've been in the biggest argument in the world. But my job is a teacher and a coach is a teacher. And, you know, find different ways to be successful and find different ways to build or reestablish that culture. You know, I always talk about how I'm worried about this, this generation of teenagers because they text so much and they've never left a voicemail from anybody. And, you know, confrontation is hard and dealing with conflict is really hard. And then I look back and I find myself telling the story how my first three years of college. You know, I was with my team and I had a small group of friends and then my senior year was like, I started letting myself get out of my, my comfort zone and I started making friends, but I that had been there right next to me for three years and I was like, why did I wait so long to get to know this person. It's not just the kids, it's our generation too, like there are times I'd much rather send an email than jump on a phone call, you know? But you wouldn't believe the number of times this year that I've talked to the girls and you know, something's came up and I'm like, Well, did you talk to her about it? Like, I feel like this is something that could easily be resolved. Well, I text her. I'm like, no, no, that's not it. Like me, me, myself. And I, you know, I get into this a lot. Like, I'll send an email after a long day or something and then look back at it and be like, man, that tone kind of came off a little bit rough. Like if I was reading this on the other side, I don't know how I'd take that. You know, and like I said, it's just, it's our generation. It's easier to jump on and send a text or send an email. But I mean, you do have to realize not only how an impersonable it is, but I mean, There's a lot that can be misunderstood with a text or an email and things like that. So, I do think it's important for the girls especially, and me myself, you know, to have open conversations with them. And, you know, to be face to face and to get back to having those, you know, meaningful conversations in person and establishing those more serious relationships. Texts can be kind of a throw off. I believe you. I'm proud of you. I love you. But when you hear it in person and you get to hear the tone behind it. You know, or I'm mad at you. I'm upset with you. I'm disappointed in you when you hear it in person. It just changes everything. You feel, I'm not, I'm not passing judgment because I'm the world's worst. I I'm sure some of my friends who call and within five seconds, I'm like, Hey, what do you want? It's like you, you obviously have your phone. Like, why are you not answering? So, you know, it's been a learning process for me too. It's, you know, that sometimes taking the easiest route isn't always the best route. So we just learn and adjust. We're going to get into recruiting in the second segment, but I'm intrigued by. Have you changed what you want for your program over these last seven years? Is it, have you found yourself going, I like this, I like this type of relationship. I like this type of culture. Has it changed about who you chase and who you bring in? Or do you like the surprise and being able to deal with change? That's tough. Um, for me, because even though I want all of the athletes to have the same relationship with me, I have to be careful. Um, because like I told you before, we do bring in club kit. We've had club kids who come to CMU that I've been around since they were 14 years old. You know, that's, that's really different, especially when you pair that with an international student that I've maybe had one zoom call with so I have to walk a really, really thin line of having the same relationship. With all my kids. I don't want one kid to think that they can come up in my office and chat with me for three hours and somebody else to be afraid to even open my office door, you know? So I wouldn't say that I, I change what I want. I like what we're doing. I always tell kids on visits who ask about, you know, like culture and team dynamic. I try every single year. To split recruits. I try to bring in a third international, a third transfer who, you know, maybe has some experience and then a third first time freshman. The nice part for me where I'm at in Fayette, um, is what I would call local is different than like, Who's a good example of, like a MoBap, saying we recruited local. Well, that's obviously a St. Louis kid. You obviously, like, you know, and for, for Chris and even now Claire, who works for High Performance, they're all the same kids, you know, those are kids who have, you know, played for your club a lot like mine. My local could be Kansas city, St. Louis, Springfield. It could be a Columbia or Jeff city kid, but I mean, those are all local to me. So it makes it really easy for the girls to, you know, get along and build those relationships because I don't think anyone at CMU on my current roster could say, look at a teammate and say, oh my gosh, We had the exact same upbringing, but you, you, you sound like you went to the exact same school that I did and we were, you know, raised the exact same and we went to a similar church and all of this stuff. So it, that part is something that I, I almost have to keep the same and not change just because of. Where we're at and what we're able to offer. I feel like that type of recruiting and that type of dynamic wouldn't work if I were to change it and say, you know what? I'm only going to recruit local kids or you know what? I'm only going to recruit internationals. I just don't feel like I do feel like it's certain schools. That would be fine. I do not think that would lead to the greatest chance of success for me at CMU. You and I are the same way. I was the same way. If I had, if my roster had 20 kids on it, and they were from 17 different states and 17 different economic backgrounds and cultures, I love that. I yeah, because I know how You know, I tell people this all the time. I grew up in a town of 2000 people and the diversity was Baptist, Catholic and Lutheran, you know, and 475 total 475. Mine was 2000. Yeah. So, so when I got to college and there were kids from 41 different countries and different colors and religions, I was like, I was like kid a candy store. So I love it. And then I see coaches who, you know, You look at their team and it's almost like they're cloning kits. Everybody, their facial structure looks the same. They all look like they could be cousins. And I don't want to be critical of them because you recruit the way you want to win and the way you think you have to win. Talk a little bit more about the value of that diversity for you. What do you think your team gets out of it to get you where you want them to be when they leave? Well, I mean, you know, I, I, I don't want to, uh, I'm definitely not throwing shade at other coaches and what they do because, you know, we talked early on about, you know, you said you had had Kyle on. Kyle is a great recruiter, trains well, and he's lucky enough to have, uh, Really, really good local kids that are tall and athletic. You know, like if I was in that area, of course I would, I would do something different. We don't, Fayette doesn't even have a high school volleyball team. We, like the high school we have in town does not have a volleyball team. So I'm definitely not taking away from what other coaches do. I mean, the success that he's had there is crazy and it works. Like I said, it worked for me at CMU because of what we do, what we have to offer. Um, you know, like one of the things that I can hit in the recruiting process for some of our internationals is how small we are. Those families want to send their kids somewhere that's going to be safe. You know, that maybe, maybe inner city life isn't, you know, their best option. Okay, well, Fayette might be so I mean, you know that that's something that we can hit there in the recruiting process, but I do think what we do not only pays off on on the volleyball court and establishing culture and keeping culture. I think a lot of our girls leave having friends that they would have never met in another circumstance or learning things. You know, we've had girls from. Poland, New Zealand, Portugal, Brazil, um, Italy. Our girls, like, you know, like I said with our local girls, our Springfield kids, Kansas City kids, St. Louis kids, they would have never learned about somebody's background from Poland had they not ended up at CMU. So I do think they, you know, I think they take away a friend that they would have never met. In another college setting had they have went to one of those schools that we talked about where, you know, it's, it's just, you know, girls from Iowa or girls from, you know, Nebraska, those are like the big recruiting states where volleyball is, is prevalent. Um, they're talented, really, really good, really athletic. And maybe there's something to be said about everyone being from the same background. Maybe it's easier for those kids. To get along and to build relationships. But I mean, I, I think on the opposite side, because of, like I said, what we really need to do at CMU for me to be successful, I think our girls take away experiences and, and relationships that, you know, they de they would've never found. Don't you find that there's just so much ready to go out into the adult world and be adults and build relationships and be open minded and be curious and not afraid of that curiosity. I mean, I hope that's I feel like that should be everybody's, you know, all coaches expectations is that we're not only training good volleyball players, but I don't want any of my kids to fail if they've been with me for two years, three years, four years. At the very least, I would hope they say that, you know, as hard as I trained them and as high of expectations that I had for them, that I set them up for success later on in life. I would also hope that if they needed a letter of recommendation or a reference, that I would be one of the first people that they reached out to. But, you know, that, like I said, I think that's something that all coaches need. Should take accountability for if we're not just training volleyball players. We're not, you know, our, our success for these kids doesn't end when they graduate the lessons that we teach should go far past that. So, you know, that's, that's my hope that maybe adding a little bit of a cultural dynamic would. Help them even more or excite them even more to get out and meet people. But that's for my girls to say. But it's it's it's cool that you give them that world. You give them that Avenue to drive, you know, they've got to leave your program completely different than the way they got there in terms of just being open minded and their humility and. Yeah, I would say nobody comes into my program and leaves exactly the same way. That one I can vouch for. I would love to do a case study where we interview your freshman and we interview him as sophomores and maybe we ask him the same 10 questions because I'm doing that right now with high school kids. You're going to get some interesting answers. I have, uh, I have a girl. Who actually graduated, but she's gonna be, she'll be our fourth, um, I think, to go play professionally. So she asked if she could still train with us in the spring. And it's funny, the stories that she tells the other girls, she's like, Remember when this, and remember when that, and sometimes I'm like, Man, I actually did that, like, that was me. Because I've changed, you know, and we kind of talked about it early on about like how, how kids have changed. I don't coach the same exact way that I did before. And part of it is, you know, exploring different personalities and learning how your kids work. And I can't say the same things. To my kids now that I did five, six years ago. Um, but yeah, that would be, uh, I'm interested to hear what you think about that from the, the freshmen to senior year and asking the same questions. Yeah, I, well, I'm doing it with some of my kids that I'm working with right now, cause I might get them as 15, 16 year olds, and then I'll get them to college and we'll go back and look at some of the questions that I had them ask themselves when they were 15 or 16 years old. And then at 18, I go. Here were your answers to those questions that are going, What? I said that? Yeah, that's what I thought about college at that point. So it's, I love that transition. I really do. And, and I can just tell the kids that play for you, they got to walk out. They got to be tougher. they're going to be more curious. they're going to have a thicker skin, but it's in a good way. Cause they, they know they can take things on. They're, they're tougher. They're mentally tougher. And I can tell that's why your program is, always going to be on the rise because of that. And that's really cool. And I appreciate that you're learning and you're changing. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, I know I did. You know, I, I feel like, I feel like I'm finally hitting my stride at 51 on who I want to be as a coach. You know, I've been doing this for 30 years and I'm finally hitting my stride where I feel like, like I said, if you're not growing, I mean, you know, that's, that's something that every, every single year we should be, we should be different and better, or otherwise we're not learning lessons and you know, that's, that's probably when you should give it up. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm gonna get to Missouri. I'm gonna come watch when you practice. I'm gonna sneak in the corner and just be a fly on the wall. I'd love to see you guys work. I want to do a little rapid fire with you before we close out this segment. Just get some thoughts out of you. Get some wisdom from you. One thing high school and club athletes are over trained in. Over trained in. I think, you know, if I was going to say one thing right now, I think it's more about the time commitment. That's one thing that I've noticed with club is we get closer and closer to high school season every single year. Between tryouts to where there's just not that downtime for kids to be, you know, Kids anymore. I think we've got a lot of great club programs. We've got a lot of great club coaches. I wouldn't say they're doing anything wrong or over training and anything. I just think because of the way volleyball is growing so rapidly and popularity that everybody thinks we just have to be. In the gym nonstop, and I think we just get away from some of that, you know, reflection time or, you know, recovery time and things like that. So I think more than anything else is, is we're just overworking, um, as a whole, and, you know, we could, we could enjoy some of that downtime. I, I, I just beg these clubs and organizations to, you know, if, if Let's get back to a break in the seasons. You know, let kids be basketball players. Let them be softball players. Let them, I mean, it's crazy. We, the way our, our region works, we're literally able to start practices whenever some of our athletes are in post-season. I mean, you know, when we try to give a break in between for tryouts and stuff, and obviously, like, we're lucky Misha protects those kids to where, if they're still in high school season, they can't start club. But then, at the end of the day, it's like, well, I mean, it's still kind of... backlash to them because the rest of their teammates are starting. They can't because they're in high school, but do we really have to overlap anyways? Like, and you know, it's not all on the me personally. I am a club director. It's not all our fault. You don't want to be left behind. You don't want to be the one club that starts two weeks later than everybody else. But I mean, whenever I first started, I felt like there was time in between for a kid to wrap up high school season, get their body back in shape, have some rest time, have some downtime with friends, and then there was an excitement to start club season. Now it's just like, oh, you finished districts, club practices tomorrow. They don't even get a chance to reflect on the season. They just have no, no, it's I mean, and I would have to check. I told you before, you know, I started out with basketball. I haven't coached, you know, since I went into volleyball, I haven't been in so long, but it would be interesting to see what everyone's. What everyone else's seasons look like. What is the break between, you know, a club sport and a high school sport? Because with volleyball, at least in our region, I mean, it's it's a week, if most. Yeah, it's like we've ignored the other people in the building. Yeah, well, this is how we're going to run our program. This is the timeline. You even see it on professional sports now, you know, we've got the NFL taking over Christmas games where it used to just be NBA and, you know, we got Thanksgiving. It used to be just, you know, it's like we can't let each other have a little, a little life, you know, and yeah, yeah, you're right. If I could send you to any concert right now, where would you want to go listen to? Alanis Morissette 1000 percent no questions asked. I would pack up my mom and we would go watch Alanis. Favorite song? Ironic or You Learn? Great songs. Boy, you just spoke to my, uh, my first couple years of college. I am a very old soul at heart. I think my first two CDs were Fleetwood Mac and Eagles. Now we're talking. That's my world. I love it. Are you an Eagles fan? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I still, I, uh, I have. Every time that I, one of my friends travels with me, they think that I'm so weird because I don't listen to the radio. I don't have Pandora. I have my playlist of songs that I have created and I just listen to it on repeat. The same exact songs over and over again. So Desperado and Hotel California are on the list. Can't beat them. I love them. I've seen them live five times. Um, if I asked your girls one word that defines you as a coach, what would they say? Competitive? Um, yeah, I think that one would be the one. I mean, they know, they just know that I don't like to lose. I want to have the highest retention. I want to have the highest GPA. I want to go to nationals every year. I mean, it's just my entire life. When I wake up every single day is competing with me, um, with someone else with the world. That's just, I'm here to be better every single day. Love it. Coach. Thanks for doing this. For those of you listening, come back on Monday. we're gonna dive into recruiting a lot more and get coaches advice for parents and high school coaches and kids going through that recruiting journey. Thank you, coach. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Thank you Coach Coleman Lee. Really, really fun. Really, really good. I so much appreciate coaches like Coleman. Once you aren't carbon copying someone else's blueprint, they're building their own, they're adjusting it and getting better because of it. If you got something out of this conversation, and I think you did, don't just move on from it. Go find a way to apply it. And if you're looking for more ways to stay organized, stay proactive, and take control of your journey. Head over to coach matt rogers.com. There's a lot there that can help you take your next step, and you should always feel welcome to schedule a time to talk to me one-on-one. I'm always happy to listen, talk, and help you with your future. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control. Stay humble and keep chasing significance.