Episode #165: Coleman Lee on Recruiting

 🏐 Coleman Lee: What College Coaches Really Want |  Ep. 165 

In this episode of the Significant Recruiting Podcast, Matt Rogers sits down with Central Methodist Head Volleyball Coach Coleman Lee to break down what really matters in the recruiting process.

From communication and evaluations to visits and long-term fit, Coleman shares what separates recruits who get opportunities from those who get overlooked.

They also discuss how recruiting has changed, what athletes and families misunderstand, and how players can take ownership of their process.

If you're serious about playing at the next level, this is a conversation you need to hear.

🔗 Learn more about Coleman Lee:
 https://www.cmueagles.com/sports/wvball/coaches/Lee_Coleman?view=bio

🎙️ Significant Recruiting Podcast – Episode 165
 🎧 Listen: coachmattrogers.com/podcast
 📺 Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@CoachMattRogers

Transcript

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on the latest edition of The Significant Coaching Podcast, a recruiting presentation of the coach, Matt Rogers YouTube channel. Available audio only everywhere you get your favorite podcast. I'm your host, Matt Rogers. Today's conversation with Central Methodist head volleyball coach Coleman Lee is as real as it gets NAI versus ncaa. Why fit matters more the level and how recruits parents and coaches should actually approach this journey. And as always, you can find more@coachmattrogers.com. Grab a copy of significant recruiting for any of your athletes. Check out the significant recruiting launchpad classes and dive into weekly blogs for parents, athletes, and coaches. And we love it when you subscribe. Favorite like, and drop us a comment. Alright, let's get into it. Here is Coach Coleman Lee. Coach Lee, thanks again for being on the show. Let's dive into recruiting,'cause I know that's such a huge part of your life. When you look at the conversations you have with families day in and day out, I'm still finding there's a ton of confusion about NAI. Do you have like an elevator speech that you give to explain it? Yeah. But I feel like ours is more, easily defined because of what we do. Okay. So in the spring season and in the preseason, we make sure that we play division two schools. Yeah. We play Dre, we play UCM, Rockhurst, Washburn, Pitt State, Missouri Southern. Yeah. Anyone that you can think of within. Traveling distance we play. I would say, um, just from my experience, as long as I've been at CMU. We have some of the best division two volleyball in our area, that there is both the MIAA and the GLVC are packed with talent. Kids see that, you know, our, our Springfield kids are at Drew's games. Are the kids the best kids in our region? Because my club is actually in, we have to compete in the Kansas City area. They know Washburn, they know UCM. They've been on a visit to Rockhurst. So whenever we're able to actually tell the kids and parents like, Hey, these are the teams that we play against. This is how well we do, you know, this is, this is how we compete. You know that if you come here, you're gonna be competing at this level. Yes, it's in an A i A program. You may not have heard of any of the other teams that we play. But you do know these teams, so I think that makes it easier for me. I would be interested to see what other coaches say when asked that question of, you know, like, what is the difference between NAI and, you know, division two? Because as long as I've been around and as many teams as we've played, I can say, you know, the, the, I would say the top 10 NAI programs are gonna be pretty similar. To top 10, to maybe 10 to 15. On the division two side, there's not a lot of difference. But for somebody who's been around the road, um, you know, there are a lot of Division one schools that Division Twos and NAIAs can compete with. We used to, you know, uh, one of my friends will at Lindenwood before they made the switch to division one. We would play them in the off season. Now, I'm not saying that we, you know, we smoked them or anything like that, but I mean, he's having a ton of success at the division one level in, in his new conference. So I would say it's important for all. Kids and parents to do their research. Ask coaches, you know, can I, can I watch a, a live game from last season? You know, who, who would you say is the most competitive team that you've played against? And let me get that game. You know, let me tune in for that one to really understand the quality. Some of our better NAIA programs, because I'm, I'm not lying to you. It's, there's some really good volleyball and there are some really good players, uh, a lot of whom would do well at a division two and a Division one program. Yeah. I, I think you and I could take a family to any level and we could show them unbelievable volleyball at every level, and we Oh, 100% schools where the volleyball's not so good. To me, it comes down to a couple things. You've already talked about how competitive your president is and what he provides to make sure you can be competitive. But there's a lot of schools where the president is in academia and you know, athletics is just something that's part of their campus. It's not something they're devout to and devoted to. So it's really about budget and staffing. I mean, how many coaches do you run into the NAI level where they might even have an assistant? Yeah, or they have an assistant that they give three grand to and they have to work a full-time job and they maybe show up for practice every day. You got a full-time assistant, you got a nice budget, you got a recruiting budget, you got a, uh, administration that supports you. It doesn't really matter what level you're at, you're gonna be pretty good. No. And see that's something, you know, with me being a club director, I'm also in charge of our, our girls recruiting. Um, I handle all of that for'em. Yeah. And, you know, I make'em explore everybody. I'll, I'll tell you another one that gets overlooked a lot. I have played some really, really good junior colleges. Yeah. Um, a couple years ago we went down to Florida Southwestern. Um. For our off season, we were able to spend a week at Florida Southwestern Tais let us, you know, train in their gym and then we, we scrimmaged them. I think every one of her kids in the starting lineup that we played against went to a really good division one school. And I don't know if I've ever been beat the way we were beat at Florida Southwestern. So, I mean, you know, and that's another one that, that kids are like, wait. Junior college. What's that? And I'm, I tell'em, I'm like, it's a really good way to get training and get two years of school paid for. You know, division two junior colleges don't take care of tuition or don't take care of room and board. So that's a little bit different. But those Division one junior colleges, I mean, it's something that gets overlooked all the time. And for a lot of our kids, especially with the A plus program in Missouri. I mean, that's the way to go if you're still up in the air about maybe what you want to study or even what school you want to end up in it. It's hard to be two years at a division one junior college. Man, if I come full circle on that one, I am 100% with you there. I I used to be, you know, there's a, there's type of kid that was right for junior college now. If you're a 4.0 and a 30 a CT and you're not sure who you are, you're still growing into your body or you're just not sure what you wanna do with your life, man, jucos a great option. Oh, and some really, really good locations too. You know, I talked about Florida Southwestern, but you know, Miami Dade, um, they, they, California has its own junior college division where they, they just play against each other, I mean. Just think about, well, I'm not really sure what I wanna study, so I don't know how to narrow my list, but I could go to one of these jucos for two years and live it up in California or Florida and then I know where I want to go, what I wanna study for my last two. So that's one. I always have our kids at least explore that option. And you know, it's to my detriment whenever I started the club. I probably didn't look at NAIAs or junior colleges as, as much as I, I should have. I was that guy who was prideful and I wanted our kids at, at an NCAA school. And we've actually as, as small as our club is, we've had kids play at the division one level, but I mean, now. I take so much more pride in finding the right fit for my kids where they are going to stay and not call me two months in and say, Hey, we made a bad mistake. You know, there's, there's so much more happiness that I get out of that than just saying, yep, we sent a kid division one. At the end of the day, it's about the fit. It is 100%. I got a couple of books I'll send you too to, to take. When you are talking to your families, when you're talking to parents about that recruiting journey in your club.'cause you, you're right. You, you, you have to be a master at both sides of this. Oh, I'm right. Yeah. I'm right in the center of it. What are some of the pieces of advice you give families just as a foundational, when they're starting that journey? What do you want them to know? Do not pick based on a coach. That is the number one thing that I tell'em because I'm like, look, you don't know. If that coach is gonna be there 10 more years, you don't know if they're gonna be there your first semester. Um, but also outside of that, if you have a, a career ending injury, what good was it in, you know, deciding on your school based on you liked the coach? You have to choose based on what you want to do at the end of, of your college career. By graduation, you need to know you chose the right school because it set you up for the future. Not that you had four great years with a coach that you enjoyed hanging out with, but because after those four years, you are set up for your career or whatever it is that you want to do. Yeah. So that's always the main thing I tell'em is you've gotta choose the school. Choose a school that you love because you don't know that volleyball is always gonna be there and you don't know that you're gonna have the same coach all the way through, or the same teammates all the way through. You have to choose a college based on what you want. Past volleyball. Yeah. The other thing that I tell'em is, you know, and this is one thing that I work with my athletes on, and then it's an interesting question, seeing both sides, being a college coach myself. Because I always ask our recruits on campus, I'm like, what are your non-negotiables? And kids are like, what? What do you mean non-negotiables? Well, have you thought about the things that you have to have in a school? Like I don't care if your number one thing is. You've gotta have a Starbucks on campus. If you've gotta have a Starbucks on campus, we can start crossing off some schools pretty quick. You're gonna make my life and job a lot easier. That's right. So I tell our kids, I usually tell them four. Five if, if they're really strong and passionate about something. So those are usually, you know, degree program. Um, distance from home comes up a lot, you know, like, do I wanna be within driving distance? Where if I have a weekend off that, you know, five hours is too much, but three hours is perfect. What are some of the other things that they come up size of campus? You know, for some of our size of town and for some of our, our kids who have already grown up in a small, and I was the same way. I told you, I grew up in a town of 475 people. My first thing is I've gotta get out. I've gotta meet other people. You know, I don't care. At that time, I didn't care about going and, you know, playing a sport or continuing that. I wanted to get out and meet people. So I went to Mizzou. My first two years, um, my first class in conservation hall had more people in it than my town. I mean, that was, that was my emerging myself into, that was me emerging myself into society. Now, I didn't end up at Mizzou. I transferred back. Home ish, to Springfield to finish up at Drew, which I'm really glad that I did. You know, that's, that's probably one of the best decisions that I made for myself in terms of academics and what I wanted to do with my life. But, you know, if, if, if the kids don't have a good sense. Of non-negotiables, you're almost just wasting time doing visits, and you're not only wasting your time, you're wasting that coach's time. You know? I feel like by the time that you've made a list of four or five things, then maybe the initial list of colleges that you gave me, that was 15 schools that you wanted me to reach out to on your behalf. Now it's seven. Because we've went through these things and these eight schools don't have the things that you told me you absolutely have to have. So let's focus in on these seven, let's you know, let's do those visits. Let's reach out to those coaches and if we have to open it back up, we can. But at least at the end of the day, you told me these things that you were so passionate about. All of these schools have'em. Yeah. I love that that's the right approach and it's the smart approach.'cause kids don't think about their priorities until they get there and then they realize what they thought was their number one priority is about 15th on their list. Yeah. And really what was number one they didn't even put any thought into and now they're unhappy because they didn't think about what they really wanted. Yeah. So I love that. Do you find that kids. Are starting this journey with one foot out the door because they know the portal is more prevalent now. Yeah. I mean it, the conversations that I have with kids, uh, I take retention. Very seriously at CMU. That's one of the things, like I said, with, with such a supportive president, but such a competitive president, I feel like that's one thing that we've just been on the same page about since I started at CMU. I don't wanna lose kids. He doesn't want me to lose kids, and I think he, he trusts me to do everything possible to keep them. However, I have noticed, you know, having visits and things, parents even making the comments like, well, you know, it's not the end of the world if it doesn't work out. You know, there are, there are other schools and you know, I, I get that on their end and I do think that there's a lot to be said about that comfort of, okay, if we do make the wrong decision. It's not life ruining for my kid. You know, we, we can find something else. But for me personally, like I said, as as a club director and wanting to make sure that I've done my best to get the kids at a spot that they're gonna stay in. But then on the other side is a college coach who wants to make sure that the kids I bring in graduate, um, I would say that the portal's made that a lot harder. You know, I have to work. More on my end to make sure that the kids are having a, a greater experience to where they're not starting to look elsewhere. And then I also have to make sure that I'm working harder on the club side to really narrow those lists to make sure that we together. Don't make the wrong decision to where you feel like you do have to transfer. Because, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a part of sports nowadays. If, if you don't like it, leave, you know, you just, there's something else out there. And it, it's, it's tough for us coaches and, and US directors who don't want you to leave. You know, we want you to have the right fit. The first time. And so that, that makes it a little bit more difficult. Um, but like I said, for parents and kids alike, I can understand wanting to have that comfort in knowing that if, if I have to make a different decision, if's not like I, I completely ruined my entire life. I can go find something else that's different and where I am may be happier. Well, it's, to me it's like divorce, you know? No, you should never get married thinking, well, if we end up not liking each other in five or six years, we can get out of it. You know? It's just, yeah. It's not the great way to start a long-term relationship, but it's nice knowing that if it doesn't work out, we're just not fit. We change and, and I think that's kind of what the portal should be and is designed to be. Too many, too many people think, well, I'm gonna give this a shot and if it's not there, I'll go find something better. And I think they're not working hard enough on their front end to do the right research and, and think about their non-negotiables and think about their priorities to make good decisions. So I like that. Do give one piece of advice for that kid that wants to play in college, wants to play at A CMU. How do you recommend they go about reaching out to those, those schools? You have to be authentic. Find something that's original about yourself. I love emails that, that Tell me about hobbies. Outside of volleyball, I'm already recruiting volleyball players every, that's the one thing that every single player I talk to has in common. They, they love volleyball. They are a volleyball player. So tell me about your hobbies outside of that, you know, what's an interesting fact about you? Uh, attention grabbers are good. What I try to get my kids to stay away from and you know, like we talked about earlier on, it's easier to send a text. It's easier to copy and paste. You know, coaches realize that it is not hard for me to distinguish an email that you have sent to 300 coaches that day and an email that just. Came to me. You know, if you do wanna save time, if there are 10 schools that you're really interested in and you wanna send a similar email, throw in something about the college, you know, to make it authentic. Hey, I noticed that that CMU was. You know, third in the conference last season, or you know, you guys made a trip back to the national tournament and then change that for another school that you're looking at, Hey, I noticed that it was your first year as as a head coach and you did a great job. Those are the types of things that are gonna get replies. I don't know how many coaches and I run a, a college showcase here in town. And we bring in a great staff, um, and put'em in front of our athletes and then they get to train with them. Um, they get positional time, they get live play in front of the coaches, and at the very end we have a recruiting chat and it comes up every single year that one of our coaches has got an email with the wrong name on it. Or you forgot to change the school. Um, those, those emails go right to the trash, sometimes not even opened, you know, if the subject line looks like you've sent it to everybody in, in the state of Missouri that day. You're probably not gonna get a response. So I think just authentic originality. I love a good highlight video. We like creating them ourselves for, for our athletes. So good. Highlight videos with, uh, interesting music or, you know, songs that I can vibe out to, things, songs that I know. I think that helps as well. But yeah, I think just, just making yourself original, finding a way for you to stand out on, on top of the hundreds of other emails we got that day. Little will last, more set maybe. Yeah, for sure. That throw some ironic, um, you know, it might not go with what's going on in the volleyball game, but at least I'll be jamming out while watching your video. That's right. I mean, if you're not listening to this podcast, you don't know how to get coach excited about it. I know, right? Talk about a connection. Right? You gotta put a good song in your highlight video. It's funny, we used to joke about that because my old assistant would do highlight videos. For all of our girls and the number of coaches that were like, Hey, I watched so and so's highlights, like that song was fire. I'm like, that's what he does. That's what he's good at. He loves doing it. He did our hype videos at CMU and now he still does hype videos at Johnson County. But you know, you can't, you can't go wrong with a good song. That's right. You can't, um, piece of advice for a parent that's going through this journey. Stay out of it. But you know, like the, that's another thing that the, the coaches that come to our showcase, they're like, if I get an email from your parent, it's deleted. You know, like the kids have to be independent. So I think even outside of that, you know, being. Being okay with letting your kids experience this journey? It's their decision. It's not yours. You, you know, that's the same thing I tell my club parents every year, you're a supporter. You're not the coach. You know, you, you should, you should be in the stands supporting every single girl. Like they were your daughter, that's your job during club season? Yeah, you know, this is the same thing. You are the supporter. You are there to give advice when it's needed and when it's warranted and, you know, go with them. Go with them on the recruiting visit if you wanna see the town or whatever. But allow them to have the conversations with the coaches. Um, a lot of our kids, which. You know, I, I'm a no nonsense kind of guy. Our, our club kids, our parents, my CMU kids, they know what they're getting from me. I, I don't sugarcoat stuff, so, I mean, most of our parents know. It's probably not a good idea for you to watch the tryout. You know, we don't, the last thing that our kids need to be worrying about is the faces that you're making in the stands when they're already nervous, they're in front of a college coach. So I just think they should facilitate the process. Give information, like I said, whenever it's needed or, or when it's warranted, but it really, for it to be the 100%. Perfect fit. It has to be the kid's decision there. There can't be any outside influence and that's why I tell a lot of our club girls, we'll have girls who finish eighteens a year that are like, well, we, we really want to come to CMU. You know, we've been around you. We know you're, and I'm like, go do other visits. Yeah. After you've done two visits, after you've done three visits, then you can talk to me. You know, we'll, we'll, we'll bring you in and see, but you are not coming to CMU because you know me. That's just not happening. It's not happening. So I think all of us, you know, me and parents both, we just need to facilitate the process. Let the kids take ownership. They're the ones who are gonna spend the next four, however many years of their life, depending on their degree program. They need to make this decision. That's awesome. That's great advice. All right, last piece of advice for that high school coach that wants to help their kids get to that next level, wants to help them with this recruiting journey, what's the advice for them? So, that's a really good question because for the first time this year, I actually had a high school coach bring a kid on campus. I totally thought. That they were related. I thought maybe sisters. And then she told me, she was like, you know, I'm her high school coach. I am just really wanting to open it up for some of our girls to get to play at the next level. We haven't had that in the past. I haven't had luck getting them out. So I'm going on these visits to not only help but to build relationships with these coaches. And I was like, good for her. Oh my gosh, like love it. You are exactly the type of person that these kids need in their life because you're not doing it for your own glory. To say that I've sent so and so to college, you are so invested that you took a day out of your life and drove them up for nothing else. To build a relationship with me and see what I'm about. And if you can continue to send kids to me, she genuinely wanted. To build those relationships. I think that's great. You know, if, if you want to again, be a facilitator in this process after a kid has reached out, you know, after that initial email has came from the kid, at that point, if you wanna send a, you know, a reference and you know. Tell something about the kid or you know how they are in the gym, that's fine. I don't think it's great in the initial contact. I think that needs to be made by the kid. But you know, just seeing how committed she was to her athletes and providing that emotional support. Um, was really eye-opening for me because I was a high school coach myself. And I even asked her, I was like, wow, is it, you know, is it the school give you a stipend? Or you know, like, are you getting some kind of travel kickback? Because I did not, when I was a high school coach, I did not go on college visits. She's like, no, it's just me wanting to build those relationships and maybe develop a pipeline where I can send kids, you know, I wanted to come in and see how you ran the tryout. Maybe I can learn a new drill or something. It just, that devotion to her athletes was really, really eye-opening to me. So I think that's, that if, if there's anything that a high school coach can add. It's just that support of saying, Hey, I'm here for you. You've reached out to that coach. Let me send a, let me send an email on your behalf. Or, you know, like for her, Hey, you're, you're going on a visit. Let me take you up there. You know, let me make you a little bit more comfortable on the car ride home. We can chat about, you know, what you liked, what you didn't like, but she was so hands off. Of the process, but so involved, like I said, emotionally supportive of that athlete. I feel like the athlete was actually able to better perform. Knowing she was there and knowing that she, she gotta see the authenticity of that kid. Yeah. Just knowing that she had one more cheerleader. Yeah. In, in her, you know, in her corner on campus with her. You know, because think about that. Whenever you go on a visit, and especially if you've been, you know, parents have been told, Hey, they, they need to do the tryout. Themselves. You know, you need to, we don't need to make'em any more nervous. Like if you, if the coach invites you to watch, watch, yeah. If they don't, or if your daughter says, Hey, I, I would prefer it if you don't. We've had kids who have said, no, we don't want you to watch, like, told their parents that, and they've been very receptive. But just knowing that she had one more person going to bat for her and saying like, Hey, you can do this. You can play at the college level. If it's CMU, great. If it's not, you know, I'm gonna be here for you to find that place. Yeah. And like I said, I, she was able to perform to a, a level that she may not have had that coach not traveled with her. I love that. And, and I think what a lot of high school coaches need to understand, she's made an impression on you and I, there's been so many years I was blown away. Blown away. You could probably relate to this. I've had so many years where I knew I was gonna lose a really great assistant to go be a head coach or something like that. And I just dreaded finding another assistant coach. You know,'cause how are you gonna find somebody that's as good as that last person? And I always think about those high school coaches that I've worked with, that I love, that inspired me, that did something that I thought was unique. So just having those relationships is such a big deal for high school coaches and, and, and reaching out to college coaches and I'm, I'm like this way now, and you know, I've reached out to you. I don't ever reach out to a college coach anymore and say, Hey, would you recruit this kid? I always say. I just want to, I want some feedback on this kid. Yeah. Like, well, yeah. And that's, that's, that's the importance of building relationships, you know? Yeah. Like, and maybe that college coach that you've built a relationship with can tell you what level they see'em at if it's not them. So, but you know, I do feel like the, and we've talked, we talked about it before with the, the team culture and everything. It's just au those authentic relationships. There's almost always, you know, a payoff for both parties down the road. You know, you build those relationships and there's gonna be a payoff down the road. And I, you know, that's her showing up for that kid. That's probably. A recruiting story that, that I'll never forget. That's right, coach. You are so frigging awesome. I love you, man. I'm so impressed with you. I'm always so thrilled when I get done with our conversation and I can't wait to have another one with you. And that's, that's how you made me feel, man. So I appreciate that. I will be in touch with you. I'll be sending you kids to look at. I'll be supporting you and cheering for you. And anything I can do, for you and the young women in your program, don't ever be afraid to ask. Yep. 100%. Same thing. Thanks coach. Great stuff from Coach Coleman Lee. It was real honest perspective on what actually matters in the recruiting process, and for those of you that keep asking me for more coaches at the NAI level and a deeper perspective on the difference between NCAA and Division three and division two, I hope you got it today. Coach Coleman has great perspective you're really looking for an opportunity for your kid to get a great education, keep playing their sport, get as much of it paid for as possible, and be surrounded by great people. Nothing defines NAI better than those things. If you found value in this episode, make sure you subscribe, favorite like, and leave a comment. We appreciate you being part of this community, and if you're looking for more guidance, head over to coach matt rogers.com where you can grab a copy of the significant recruiting book and all the sports specific companion journals. Check out the significant recruiting launchpad classes and dive into our weekly blogs and podcasts and don't forget to subscribe@coachmattrogers.com so you get my weekly coach, recruit, and parent advice and tips. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control. Stay humble and keep chasing significance. I.