Episode #175: Erik Kudronowicz on Recruiting

🎙 Why Small-Town Kids Are Built Different | Erik Kudronowicz Interview 

In Part II of this conversation, Matt Rogers sits down with Erik Kudronowicz, Head Boys’ Basketball Coach at Scales Mound High School in Illinois, to discuss recruiting, multi-sport athletes, work ethic, and why small-town kids are often overlooked in today’s recruiting landscape.

Coach Kudronowicz shares outstanding perspective for:
 🏀 Student-athletes
 🏀 Parents
 🏀 High school coaches
 🏀 College recruiters

Topics include:
 ✔️ The recruiting process
 ✔️ Helping athletes find the right fit
 ✔️ Why multi-sport athletes still matter
 ✔️ The value of small-town toughness and adaptability
 ✔️ Supporting athletes through pressure and adversity
 ✔️ How coaches can better mentor young people

If you believe sports can still change lives, this episode is for you.

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➡️ Subscribe for weekly coaching & recruiting insights:
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Transcript

0:09

On the latest edition of the Significant Coaching Podcast, the recruiting-focused presentation of the Coach Matt Rogers YouTube channel, available audio only everywhere you get your favorite podcasts. I'm your host, Matt Rogers. Last week on Significant Coaching, you heard the incredible story of Scales Mound Basketball, a school of just seventy-five students in a town of roughly four hundred people building one of the best small school basketball programs in the state of Illinois. But today's conversation with their head boys basketball coach, Erik Kondrotowicz, we talk about helping young people believe bigger things are possible for their lives once high school is over. Coach K talks about why high school coaches should help athletes through the recruiting journey, why multi-sport athletes still matter, why small town kids are often tougher and more adaptable than people give them credit for, and why finding the right fit matters more than chasing a name or a size of school. He also shares outstanding advice for recruits, parents, and coaches on navigating the process the right way, day by day, brick by brick. If you grew up in a small town like I did, and if you believe sports can still change lives, or if you're a family trying to figure out the next step after high school, this conversation is for you. And before we jump in, make sure you subscribe to this week in Significant Coaching and Recruiting Newsletter at coachmattrogers.com, where you can also schedule me to speak at your school organization and get all your recruiting, coaching insights, podcast updates, blogs, books, journals, and more. All right, let's get after it. Here's part two with Coach Erik Kondrotowicz. Coach K, so glad to see you. We had a great conversation about coaching and, and the great program that you've built. It's simply a miracle in my eyes to what you've done at Scales Mound, and how you've gone about it. Let's talk about the next phase for your kids. I know a lot of high school coaches really don't feel like it's their job, that next step when kids leave your program. What does that mean to you, and how important it is for you to help them get to that next step in their life? Yeah, I think it's everything. I, I think it's why I put the commitment into the program that I do, but I think it's why we ask the kids to put the commitment into the program that we ask them to do. And, you know, we've asked our kids here at Scales Mound to be multi-sport athletes. You know, once upon a time, I was a four-sport athlete in high school. Right Loved every bit of it, and I think every discipline helped me in some different way. Um, but ultimately, I got to compete in many different, you know, facets that way, and so we ask our kids to do that. But at the same time, I've had some tremendous basketball players that went on to play college sports, not even in basketball, because they're, you know, maybe better at a different discipline. And on our state team a few years ago, I had Ben Werner, who was a 240 pound post player who's now at 280 pounds playing defensive end at Upper Iowa D- D2 school and doing quite well. Um, I had an excellent point guard, a two-time first team all-stater, who's now a D1 golfer. Um, so if we can use the idea of sports and competition, and then also just as we know, the commitment, the work ethic, the variety of, you know, just physical discipline things that you have to do to be the athlete you have to be that's gonna take you on in life and, and you're able to do that at whatever you're going to do at college, then we need to look at that. And that's part of my preparation. I have to do that as their coach. If I don't do that as a coach, I feel I'd be failing those athletes. And so, I feel it's a very important part of what we do. When you grow up in a small town like you coach in, and I grew up in, and you grew up in- Yep oftentimes our dreams, it's not so much stunted, but it's almost like they have a ceiling on them. Definitely. Where does... W- what role do you play in your community to kinda show families that they can, they can reach for more, they can shoot for, for those bright stars and, and everything is at their fingertips if they wanna go after it? I, I think it starts with a personal belief. I think even growing up in a small town like I did in Shullsburg, you know, a town of 1,200 people, you know, I always felt there was bigger and better things. I felt like I could always go out and accomplish those things, and that, that just starts, stems from me personally. And then as a coach, I wanna convey that onto our kids as well. Like, you can go out and do great things. You know, I've had a cousin who's gone off and coached at Wisconsin, now he's- You know, the head coach at UW Parkside, he just was at, at Rockhurst. So, you know, he's off doing his own thing. Grew up in Shullsburg, same thing. Um, you probably know of people too that have got that small s- that small town start, but have never let that kinda hold them back because people have said,"Hey, let's go out and do this. Here's your avenues. Here's the, the roads you could take. We'll help you along the way, and we'll get you there." And so, you know, that's just something that I always try to push onto our players or, or the people here at our school, that you can go on and do the things you wanna do, but understand that there's going to be, you know, obviously strengths to that that you're gonna have to bring, but you're also gonna have some of your own deficiencies or roadblocks that you're gonna have to overcome to stay on the path you're on. But same time, go for it. Do what you wanna do. We only get one life, as we say, so let's go out and make the best of it. When do you start having those conversations in terms of their age about think- getting them thinking about the, the journey they're on and what steps they need to be taking to get to that, whether it's playing in college or going to college or going to get a job or going military, when do you start having those conversations? Excellent question. Um, I always start usually around that sophomore season, that sophomore year. Um, as a freshman, there's just so much going on. I think they're just trying to get, you know, everything just kinda squared away as far as understanding how the high school game works, how the program works, just trying to feel comfortable with everything. But by the time they start to come back as a sophomore, obviously they're maturing a little bit physically, their game is starting to round into shape, and at the same time they're starting to have that mindset of,"Okay, where is this gonna go for me now?" And then that's where I sit down as a coach and have that conversation and say,"Here's where your skills are at. Here's some of the comp players that I've coached that I think you're com- you know, considered in the same ballpark as. So here's some things we need to work on, but here's some things you could do that could take you to this school or this school, and these are the things we could start looking at." And then those players start doing that. And then ultimately by their junior season, on the hardwood or whether it be in the classroom, that's when they really need to start looking at that. So we really start to have those good genuine conversations as sophomore, but maybe even, you know, as early as their freshman year as well. I know a lot of your, your really talented kids have gone on and maybe played other sports, football, golf we talked about. Yep. Um, what are the steps that you talk to your kids about to start, about creating that exposure for themselves, kinda pinpointing some schools and types of schools they wanna go after? What does that look like for you?'Cause a lot of, again, a lot of high school coaches don't even wanna get involved in that, and I know that's really personal to you. Yeah. As far as, you know, first of all we look at their interests, um, and then the size of the schools, like what type of, of school do you, do I feel that they could be- a good fit for as far as are they a D3, a D2, a D1 type program, but then ultimately, what field do they wanna go into? What are they interested in? Because that's also very, very important. Um, I had an all-stater on the 2022 team that he's, he's a doctor. He's pre-med. He's going to be a doctor. His father's a doctor. He's a super intelligent kid, very dedicated, disciplined kid, and a- again, he's going to be a doctor. But there were certain schools that were recruiting him to play basketball, they didn't have that degree. It wasn't gonna fit for him. So he ended up then going to school, not playing basketball because he's dedicated on being a doctor first, and I, I commend him for that. Um, definitely could have played D3 ball, but again, some of the schools that were recruiting him didn't have what he looked for. So that was a unique situation where he wasn't able to, you know, go on and play, but I've had other kids that go on and play, um, based on schools that fit them really well. And sometimes it's also, and you know how this is in a small school because, or a small town, sometimes they don't wanna go too far from home either. So some of those schools, like for us, a Dubuque or UW-Platteville or maybe even down to a Highland, that fits some of those kids because that's kinda how they are. But then there's other kids that are willing to go out, branch out, and just go wherever that it's a good fit for them. Yeah, it's, it's really, it's, it's, it's good to know your options. Yep. L- let's look at the other side of this a little bit in terms of how college coaches should look at small town kids,'cause I think small town kids sometimes they, they, you looked at, well, you don't get the competition. You don't, you know, you're not playing at the highest level, and they, they kinda get the brunt of that. I know I, I, I know I felt that. What are some of the values that the kids that are coming out of Scales Mound really would make them special to a, to a college program that m- maybe a city kid doesn't really get? Yeah, I love this question, Matt. I love it because this is exactly kind of the mindset of a lot of places is that, oh, you're only a village of 450, why should I be recruiting your kid? Right. I should be in the suburbs. I should be in the cities. Those are the guys I want. I might even take a backup off those teams because, again, what do your kids have to, you know, provide for us? But I do know the all-time leading basketball scorer on the women's side in our program, she went off to Upper Iowa, D2, and she is now the winning... or she has the most points scored in their program's history. That's great. And she came from Scales Mound. That's great. So, like, our kids can go off and, and, and compete at the highest level. I am 100%, um, I know that's gonna happen. But there are some limitations, obviously, and I'll start with those as far as the competition that they're gonna go against. Yeah. I get that. That's an argument that they're gonna make. But these kids tend to play multi-sports. They have the facilities at their hands. They're dedicated. A lot of our kids in the Midwest are hardworking kids because they, a lot of them come either from farms or from that work background. And so all of those things are important, not to mention how hard they work here at school. Because a lot of our kids are not only gonna be on the basketball courts, but they're also gonna be in the drama department because our schools are so small, they, they're needed there. Oh, they're probably gonna play in the band as well because they're needed there. They're gonna do so many things that, you know, they're gonna go off and just continue to compete and do the things they want to do. And I'll give a kid for you. You know, Lena, just a few w- a week ago or two weeks ago, Jennings Dunker, who just got drafted- Sure in the third round. Small town kid, went off to Iowa, did great things there, um, on their football team, and now he's gonna do great things in Pittsburgh as a NFL draftee. So again, I think our small town kids can definitely compete with the, with the best of the best. Um, we might not have the plethora of kids versus the city, but I still think some of the best players on some of the best teams definitely can compete at the collegiate level, at any level. It's just the, the heart that those kids have and, you know, what they've had to overcome and, and- Exactly but the, but the, the community. You know, it takes a village to raise a kid. You know, when you're, when you grow up in a Lena or a Scales Mound or a Shullsburg, you really feel that. You- Oh, yeah you know, it's And I, I, I know Scales Mound is like this, but I don't ever remember playing a game in high school where everybody shut down their stores and the restaurants,'cause everybody was at the gym. Everybody came to the game, and they traveled with us. You know, it was just like Hoosiers. There was a- Yeah there was a bus and then a line of people behind us in cars going to wherever we were traveling, right? Agreed, and that's how it is in Scales Mound. Like, if it's a game night, whether it's home or what, like, businesses set their hours based on when the games are, and that's, that's a reality. That's how it is. Yeah. Um, and to go back to Jennings, who just got drafted, I can guarantee in Lena that day, everybody in Lena felt like they got drafted. Absolutely. Um, and that's the cool part about small towns is because there's so many people that had a part in that situation, in raising him, but also just being a fan of him and whatever else. The same goes in small towns. Everybody just roots on all the kids, and I think that's what makes it so special, too, and I, I try to make that point to our kids all the time, that you have no m- you have no idea how important they are to all these other people in our village. Yeah. It's, it's And the other side of that, too, is I feel like I'm always having this, this discussion or debate with parents who maybe Mom and Dad both went to University of Iowa or Illinois or Wisconsin, they went to a big school, and, and, and they s- they see the value of that, that name, okay? Yeah. And then I talk to them about where I went. I went to Coe College. When I graduated, I was a resident assistant, I was a student assistant, I wrote for the student paper, I was student body president. You know, I was 22 years old, and my references was the college president, the dean of students, the director of residence life, and the chair of my department. They were all making phone calls for me. Yeah. You go to a big, you go to a big school, you may not ever meet those people. No, odds are you aren't gonna meet those people. And like I said, you- Right you've got personal connections with them, and it's no different from my days at University of Wisconsin-Platteville. Yeah. Um, all those connections you make from, whether it's the very important people to everyone else that you meet along the way, exactly, and it, it kind of gives you that sense of community. And I loved my entire time when I was there as a Pioneer, and, you know- Yeah my, I've got daughters that are there now, and they're loving it. And, you know, it's just, it's just a great thing. Some, for some of us, it's just a great thing to be in those smaller set- those settings, as you would say, and I enjoyed my time there and just as much as I've enjoyed my time here in Scales Mound. Well, if our audience doesn't get anything out of today, it's great things come in small packages. That the case? Yes. Is that the case? Yes, that, and, and one thing to add to that, too, and I know I've heard coaches from different times sometimes kind of reference the smaller schools, like,"I, I can't win there. I can't do this there." Right."I can't this there." Well, I'd like to say, yeah, you can. Um- Yeah it just takes a little bit of work, a little bit of luck, a little bit of a lot of other things, but you can do it. And it just takes, you know, a lot of things to go, but at the same time, it's so rewarding at the end of the day, and I've enjoyed every bit of it. Well, you're an innovator coach, and that's why you, you, you, you, you don't see the walls and the obstacles that a lot of coaches see. You, you, you see opportunities, and you, you've taken advantage of them, and it's, and it's special. Um, I always finish the Significant Recruiting podcast with some s- your opportunities to give some advice. Let's start with, with the student athletes out there that are listening, those 14 to 18 year olds that want to play in college and go on to that next level. What advice would you give them? Yeah, great, great question. You know, I'll, I'll give you three, three points, three things. Number one, you know, as far as whatever you're going through the process, understand that it is a process, and so that day after day, you've got to build it. It's got to be day by day, brick by brick, inch by inch, whatever it is gonna be. You're not gonna get to the end result. You might get to the point of recruiting where people might have kind of given up on you a little bit because you're not to where somebody else is. Don't let that be de- a deterrent. Don't let there think that there's a shortcut to get somehow ahead of these people. Just keep doing your thing. My stories that I love to see when it comes draft time, or even as we get further into college careers, is the kid that's,"I was a zero star. I was a one star." Yeah. And now people want them. Like, they're the guy that's like,"We gotta have that guy." That's right. Um, and part of their, their success that they would probably say is the same thing, just take it, take the process, keep working, keep grinding, keep doing what you're doing, and love every bit of it. Um, the other thing is, kind of go back to what we do here at small town, like be well-rounded. You know, build that resume with as much as you can, and it doesn't always have to be sports. It, it doesn't have to be a three or four-sport athlete. Be involved in other things within your school. You know, do as much as you can because as much as you put yourself out there, but it kinda goes back to what I'm talking about, if you're out for a drama thing and it's not the most comfortable thing you're doing, well, that's putting yourself in a situation where you're not comfortable, and the more times you can do that, the better you'll be able to adapt to that. Then the last thing is, take everything seriously. You know, your studies, what you do, how you go about your business, the people that you meet, the things that you do, um, think about it thoroughly and do it the right way and things will turn out. So those are probably three things I would give. I love it. If you're gonna do it right- Yeah if you're gonna do it, do it the right way. Exactly. Such great advice, Coach. All right, let's talk, let's talk, let's give some parents some advice. Let's talk to those parents that have that teenager, and, and mom and dad want them to, to move on and have a successful next step. What advice would you give to them? The first thing I would say to them is understand the process, too. Don't always look at the end results, too. So to go back to the, to the athlete who has to go through the process, parents understand what the process is going to look like, because again, wherever son or daughter is at doesn't equate to anything other than that just happens to be where they're at today. Now, a year from now, two years from now, who knows where they're gonna be at. But again, go through the process and understand what the process is all about, what it's going to be. What does my athlete have to do day in and day out from a nutrition level? What does my athlete have to do day in and day out from a workout level? Then ultimately, what does my athlete have to do to get ready to play, say, that collegiate sport, whatever it could be. Um, so just understand the process. The second thing is, don't put too much pressure on anybody. Um, just enjoy it. Yeah. Because we don't know when it's gonna end. It could be an injury. I've had players that, you know, I felt they were gonna have great careers, and all of a sudden they have an injury, and it just doesn't go the way they thought it was going to go. Right. That's very unfortunate, but that is the process of sport. That's part of it. So at the same time, just enjoy every moment because, again, we don't know when it's gonna end, um, from the playing standpoint but also as a fan. And then the last thing for, you know, all parents is just always tell your kids how much you love them, because at the end of the day, they're gonna feel pressure. Like, you can't avoid pressure. There's no way around that. Um, they're gonna feel it. Crowds are gonna give it to them. The elevation of the games, as we've talked about, whatever level you're going through, at the end of the day, just tell those kids how much you love them, how much you appreciate them, how much you respect them. Yeah. Because it, it's, it goes so far with a kid to hear that every day, and you hear that, uh, you know- Yeah"I want you to be your best, and I love you, and I got your back." Those are, those are great phrases, great advice. Exactly. Yep. I, I've been asking coaches a lot, especially the college coaches, to give advice to high school coaches because you and I both know high school coaches that say,"I teach full time. I got papers to grade. I've got my own kids. I'm coaching my team. I don't have time-" To do that recruiting part. I don't have time to be their admissions counselor. What advice do you give to coaches out there at, at your level about this journey? Uh, just try to be there for these kids as much as possible. Um, I know we have to separate things. Like, again, everybody's lives are busy- Mm-hmm from theirs to yours to mine to whoever's, but at the same time, we have to use as many resources as we can. Um, and if we're one of those resources, we have to be there for them. We have to help them along the way. And at the same time, if we don't, find someone who will be a great resource and, and then kind of push that towards them,'cause there's sometimes there are recruiting coordinators out there. There's recruiting organizations and groups out there that you could push them to that could also help them out in that situation, and I've done that as a coach as well,'cause sometimes those organizations can do just as much as I could or, or maybe even a little bit more. So there's always resources, and always try to find the resource that you think's gonna work best for you, whether it is the coach or whether it's somebody else or whoever it could be. Yeah. I th- I think that's an important piece of advice for anybody in life, that you're not alone. Exactly. Maybe, maybe you don't have time to be the mentor you wanna be to 20 kids or 10 kids, but to share other mentors with them. You have a guidance counselor or a teacher that's got great energy or a principal or- Mm a business leader in town to bring them in and talk to the kids before a game or, you know, bring them in on a Saturday to talk to the kids and give them a chance to be motivated by somebody different. It's, that's- Yep a really powerful piece of advice in, in this business. Exactly. And one thing to add to that, too, is, you know, and I remember this, and now I'm kind of on the other side of life, but I remember being the young coach. Mm. And I was seeking out some of the older, the veteran guys, and just kind of picking their brains and just trying to learn some of the nuances we're talking about, whether it was recruiting or whether it was other things. And now I'm kind of on the other end of it, and people are seeking me out as well because over time you're gaining that information, you're gaining that knowledge. You understand how to do things a little bit different or a little bit better. And at the same time, there's never the end. You're, like you said, you're always digging, you're always reaching, you're always trying to do something a little bit better, and that's what we're all trying to do. So I would say find those resources, whoever they are, whether it's, you know, older people, other people, just somebody along the way. Yeah. It's, it's a, it's amazing the impact we can have on lives, um- Yeah when we, when we pu- just put a little thought into it and, and be authentic with it and, and, uh, be present with it. It's, uh, w- we, we can, we can change lives with this, this power of this position we have, so. I would agree. It, it's amazing. It's truly amazing. Coach, you are a rock star. My gosh, man. Um- There's no doubt- Thank you. I appreciate that. I really do. Thank you there's no doubt in my eyes, and I've, I've, I've been, I've been doing a lot of hiring of coaches these last 20 years, and, uh, I, I... You're the type of guy that is gonna be successful at whatever level you go. I hope you stay at Scales Mound for the next 50 years, and it's the right place, the right thing for you. But, you're, you're special, and, and it all starts with your heart and how true you are to your heart and how you feel about these kids. So again, thank you for being you. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us today, and you got a great friend in me. Whenever you need me, holler at me. If I can help you or the kids in any way, I'll always be a phone call away, but we'll, we'll be cheering for you. Hey, thanks. I appreciate that. Thanks for allowing me to come onto the podcast, talk Scales Mound Hornet basketball. Always love talking Hornets and, uh, at the same time, next time I see Scott, uh, I'll put in a good word for you. Please do. Tell, tell him I love him. I will. All right. Definitely. Thank you, coach. At the same time, I appreciate you, so thank you very much. My pleasure What a tremendous conversation with Eric Kadronowitz. Coach K reminds us that recruiting and really life itself is not about shortcuts. It's about consistency, relationships, discipline, and believing that where you come from does not limit where you can go. One of my favorite themes from this conversation was the value of small town kids, multi-sport athletes, toughness, work ethic, community, adaptability. Those things still matter. And there are college coaches across the country looking for exactly those traits. I also loved his reminder to parents, enjoy the journey. Don't rush every moment chasing the end result. Tell your kids you love them. Support them through the pressure and appreciate the opportunity to watch them compete while you still can. And for coaches, this episode was another great reminder that mentorship matters. Sometimes the greatest thing we can do is simply help a young person believe that bigger things are possible for their future. You can find more podcasts, blogs, books, recruit journals, recruiting strategy sessions, and speaking information at coachmattrogers.com. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control. Stay humble and keep chasing significance.