Episode #183: Jordan Willis on Recruiting

🎧 There Is a Place for You | Jordan Willis on Recruiting, Fit & Communication

🏐 Florida Tech Head Volleyball Coach Jordan Willis returns for Part II of his conversation with Matt Rogers, and this time the focus shifts to recruiting.

But this isn't a conversation about rankings, stars, or chasing the biggest name on the front of a jersey.

Instead, Jordan shares his thoughts on character, authenticity, communication, fit, self-awareness, and why there truly is a place for every student-athlete who wants to continue playing at the next level.

Throughout the episode, Coach Willis discusses what he looks for beyond talent, why culture matters in recruiting, how coaches identify red flags, why recruits should never ghost college coaches, and how honest communication can open doors rather than close them.

The conversation also explores one of the biggest challenges facing recruits today: understanding who they are, what they want, and finding the college experience that truly fits their academic, athletic, social, and financial goals.

Whether you're a recruit, parent, club coach, high school coach, or college coach, this episode offers practical advice and valuable perspective on navigating the recruiting process.

Topics Include:
✅ Finding the Right College Fit
✅ What College Coaches Look For Beyond Talent
✅ Character, Culture & Recruiting
✅ Why Recruits Should Never Ghost Coaches
✅ Communication During the Recruiting Process
✅ Self-Awareness & Decision Making
✅ Transfer Portal & Modern Recruiting
✅ There Is a Place for You

🎧 Listen to all episodes at coachmattrogers.com/podcast

📺 Watch at YouTube.com/@CoachMattRogers

Transcript

0:09

On the latest edition of the Significant Coaching Podcast, our recruiting-focused presentation of the Coach Matt Rogers YouTube channel and available everywhere you get your favorite podcasts. I'm your host, Matt Rogers. Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Florida Tech head volleyball coach Jordan Willis. Today we shift our focus to recruiting, but not just talent evaluation, roster building, or strategy. What stood out most was how often Jordan brought the conversation back to character, self-awareness, authenticity, communication, and fit. At one point, he says something every recruiting parent needs to hear, "There is a place for you." The challenge is understanding who you are, what you want, and whether you're willing to find the school that truly fits. We also get into why recruits ghost coaches, what that communicates when you don't respond, and how honest conversations can actually create more opportunities even if you don't get the necessary result you want. There are plenty of laughs, but also some powerful lessons for recruits, parents, and coaches. And one quick reminder before we get started: after this week's episode, I'll be taking a break from new interviews for most of June and July. I'll still be sharing some of my favorite previously recorded conversations, along with a few new solo episodes throughout the month. New guest interviews will return in August, where I'll be launching a new weekly podcast format that I'm excited to share with all of you Here's part two of my conversation with Jordan Willis, head volleyball coach at Florida Tech. Coach Willis we had a, such a fun conversation. If, if th- those listening to this, if you didn't listen to part one, go back and listen to part one, 'cause we really got into the, the weeds on coaching coaches, how we're preparing coaches for taking jobs at the high school and college level, that AD coach collaboration. Mm-hmm. So really, really good stuff. Let's get into recruiting. Sure. I'm gonna ask you a really general question to get started. Uh-huh. All right. Just a, you can take it however you want. When you look at recruiting in general for your program- Mm-hmm do you have principles that you start with? Do you have some executive function that you start with? Is there foundational things, you're like, "This is how we're going to recruit or what we're gonna look for"? Where does it begin with you- Oh, boy when you look at recruiting and building a roster? Um, so we've talked a lot over time. Yeah. And, We're, we, we're Florida Tech. We're, we're a tech school. Yeah. And so, uh, I don't, I personally don't feel I have the luxury of saying, "I only wanna recruit Florida," or, "I only wanna recruit Georgia or the South-" Right you know, East. Because not everybody wants aerospace engineering or computer science or chemical engineering or aviation or whatever, right? Like, not every school has what we have, right? That's right. And, and the greatness that we have. So, uh, maybe this is put on us, you know, uh, two-person staff with some volunteers. But it's put on us, "Hey, we're, we're, we're, we're recruiting the country and internationally," because we need to go get the best players we can go get who want the majors that we have. So I'm willing to, willing to look at all that. So we start that way. "Hey, who wants us and our uniqueness," right, as far as school? Because that, that, that needs to be a match. Like, you can't just be like, "I wanna go to school in Florida and go to the beach." Great. That's awesome. But what's gonna keep you here is our unique majors, right? Uh, or part of it. That's part of it. We do have journalism majors and, uh, business and psychology, which is also very f- all fantastic- Right you know, areas that we, we have. But it has to be something that fits for us, right? Um, and then it cuts down to more basic, like, you know, it's cliche, but, and I say this, I, I say it. We need hardworking. We need people who want to build culture or culture building, and selfless. That's what we need. I can teach you skills. I can teach you the nuances of offense and defense and, and, you know, uh, different blocking strategies and offensive systems and we, we can get into all of that, you know? And we have a million drills for different things. Um, but it's hard to teach- Hardworking, people who want to build culture, and people who are selfless. You either wanna be those things or you don't. Now, when I say that, maybe you're not those things, right? But you desire to be that, and you wanna work hard towards being that. I will take you in a heartbeat. I- you wanna change, I'm gonna help you, but there's no changing people who don't wanna change. So those are the things that I start with. That's just being a good human. We need good humans. Again, one more time, doesn't matter if you're extremely extroverted like you and I or you're extremely introverted. If i- it, you can still be a good human, right? Like, like, what are- And you, and you want that balance, uh, in- Yeah your roster. You, you do. I mean, gosh knows we don't want 18 extroverts on our roster. Yeah. We're gonna go crazy. We're gonna go, yeah. It, yeah. That's- 18 of me, sure it'd be fun for some days, and it'd be terrible for others. That's right. But, like, on the, on the culture building piece, 'cause, you know, I'm year three here, right? Um, we want people who want to bring new traditions but honor the ones that we are creating or that we have now. And maybe they morph into something more, but, like, it's part of that collaboration piece. And then the other thing, um, that when it gets talking, and this has to do with the introvert/extrovert thing, be genuine. We need genuine people. Yes. Be the best version of yourself, Matt, and I'll be the best version of myself, and we'll all be better for it. You can respect people. You can respect people who are genuine. You may not vibe with them, you know, on a level, but you can respect that person 100% if they are exactly who they say they are and they don't pretend to be something they're different. Like- Fake can go away. I just can't do fake no more. Fake people- I can't either like, fake people. Yes. And, you know, it, kids are learning, you know? Teenagers are learning. But if you're fake, I have an issue, you know? I have a bigger issue with 45-year-olds that are fake. Like, come on, man, or lady, let's m- you know? That's right. Um, but hey, now if you want to be a better person, we can model it all day long, you know? And I, and I like to think we, we fall short of perfection. Yeah. We will fall short of perfection. But I, I'd like to think that we model these things, um, day in and day out, uh, to help develop people. Now, again, players, if, if you want to change and you realize some things about yourself and you want to be better, come on. Let's go. But if you say you're something that you're not and then you show up, man, whew, we got some issues, you know? So, um, so that, that's on another level, right? 'Cause talent's a given, right? Like, man, you either, you either can do it or you can't. Like- That's right you can't just be like, "Hey, I, uh, I once played in sixth grade at gym class and now I wanna play in college." No. The, no. Sorry. You know, some, some desperate school will- Talent, talent's the easy part. Yeah. Right? Tal- talent is the easy part for sure. Talent's, the talent's never the place where we fail in recruiting. Right. Or very rarely. Right. You know? I, I can think of one kid in 25 years that I failed on the talent side- And that was because he was 6'8" and could really shoot, you know? It's har- it's hard to find 6'8" kids on basketball that can shoot. It's hard to find 6'3" middles that can swing. How about just 6'8" people? Yeah. Like, just find like- Exactly 6'8" or 6'3" people. Now- Yeah to be fair, I'm gonna challenge you on that. You think you missed on him, and this might be harder for you, for me to say to you or you to hear, but maybe you just couldn't bring it out in that kid, 'cause I have a few of those. You know, maybe I didn't miss on the talent, I just, I didn't bring it out on the kid. And I, I ha- I know I have a few of them. You know what I mean? My failure with that particular kid is I didn't work hard enough to understand his personality and his learning style. Correct. And that was, that was 100% on me, 'cause he- Sure needed a different coach. He needed- Mm-hmm a different level. He needed less pressure. Sure. He was the... I recruited him into the Great Lakes valley, and he needed the SLIAC or the SCIAC, or he needed a smaller D3. Or, or junior college. Or junior college. Right? Yes. Just, and, and that, again, that, the, nothing on you as a coach or me as a coach or the kid- Yeah as a player, but I'm sure he had talent. He did. Right? Like- Yeah, he did. If, if you would've watched him in a gym, you're like, "I can do something with this kid." Anybody would. Any coach would. You did. You said that. I mean, and, and y- in the end, we have to go- E- I missed on the kid, but that's because of me. Yeah, exactly. Right? Yes. And that's okay. That's, again, it's having those broad shoulders. Can you, can you wear some of that weight? That's right. So anyway, but yeah, on the recruiting side of things, like, um, the, that's the, that's where we start, and then, then you start to get to know people, and you have those phone calls and interactions. You reach out to some of their coaches and, and you, you start developing this picture. Is this kid gonna fit? Yeah. Is she gonna fit into what we're doing in our culture? And, and there's some girls that, that we've... Eh, you could love the kid, you could love the girl, you can love the guy, you can love whomever- Yeah and you really think they're good for you, but are they good for the team? That's right. Right? Like, you can work with them, but- That's right is it gonna be good for everybody else? 'Cause I bring this person in, it could change the dynamics. Yeah. Right? So, uh, there's all of that, you know? And- Yeah it happens. We miss- All, those are all the things you've gotta learn. Y- if you're a 28-year-old head coach, you're not gonna know these things until you go- Right through it. It, it, there's, I can coach you, you can coach them till the cows come home, but until you, they realize, "Oh, I, I can't recruit that way." Right. If I am gonna recruit that way, I have to do this, this, and this first. Mm-hmm. And, or I have to build a structure and a culture in my program before- Mm I can bring that type of kid in. For sure. Right? Or you have, the, on another thought process, maybe deeper, you have to know who you are- Yes as a person- Yes and a coach, because you're gonna bring any player in, and if, what is, how are you gonna react to any, um- Any, uh, distraction, any conflict, how are you gonna react? That's right. Because that's what it's gonna happen, and it doesn't matter. There's always gonna be conflict on that team. It doesn't matter if it's boys or girls, something's gonna happen. How are you gonna work with that conflict? If you see a red flag, and if you don't, fine, and maybe it happens later, that's part of knowing you as a coach. So if you're a young coach at 25, 28, maybe you're a newer coach at 38 or 48. That's right. It doesn't matter. You have to know who you are and what you want out of your program, and what are the standards. "Hey, this is what we do. This is how I'm gonna handle it, and there's no ifs, ands, or buts. There's no gray area. It's this. I have to handle it like this." And y- you're not gonna do that in year one. You're gonna be lucky if you do that in year three or four, if you can get- Okay to some of that. All right, this- Hopefully. Hopefully. Yeah. No, good. This is a, this is a great transition because I wanna get into this, and there's not many coaches that I feel comfortable even getting into this in a, in a conversation on the phone, in a coffee house, or definitely on the podcast, but I know I can with you. You didn't use the phrase, but you touched on the phrase- Mm-hmm self-realization. Mm-hmm. You talked about what you need. You're looking for hardworking. You're looking for selflessness. You're looking for are they good human beings? How often are you running into kids that think they have all those things? But really, they don't understand that yet. They don't understand themselves. They, they don't have a great self-realization because mom and dad have already t- they've told them that they're great or they're hardworking, and that's what they think they are, but they've never really worked a day in their life. Uh, or they surely don't know what hard work is at your level. Right. Um- How do you figure that, how do you help that kid? How do you d- can, do you have to walk away from that kid? Sometimes. Sometimes. Because that's the thing, are you wanting to deal with that headache? That's right. Is that what's good for your program? True. Like, you have to ask those questions. Are you willing to deal with that tough conversation later with the player or another player on your roster right now who's gonna have an issue? That's right. So it, it, um, how often am I dealing with that? You know, this is actually kind of crazy. Less and less. But is it because you know you better and you know what your program needs better? Correct. Right? Yes and yes. 'Cause I, I, I'm starting to get know... And then you start to trust people better. That's right. You know, and, you, you know, recruiting, uh, you make recruiting friendships at different clubs or, you know, different agencies, and, and then they get to know you, and, and, hey, man, be honest, will they work for me or not? Nope. Yep. Perfect. Thank you. Hey, I, I talked, during the transfer portal, I talked to, uh, you know, it's still going on, but I talked to a club director that I know, and I said, "Hey, what about this kid?" Well, if you're looking for the things that you said, or the opposite of what I said as far as lazy, uh, only worried, you know, very selfish, um, you know, worried about, uh, boys more than the team, uh, and doesn't care about grades either, uh, okay. So I'm not reaching out. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I mean, hey, i- they'll shoot it to me straight. And so it's part of that, that relationship. But, um, we've gotten better at weeding that out in certain questions and conversations, even just via email, right? Yeah. Yeah. But you, you tend to find some of that out, like how responsive are they to you? That's right. If they're not responsive to you, um, if you've already got to the text or call stage, and they're not responding in that within 24 hours, 'cause you wanna give people credit, like life happens. That's right. But, you know, you know, you get ghosted and a week, two, three weeks happen. Like, "Oh, hey coach." Uh, did we say, I've re- Yeah now you're responding to the question? Now you respond. It's one thing if we said, "Hey," you know, we're talking, man, I go, "Hey man, hey, update me in a couple weeks." Cool. Now we understand that I won't hear from you in a couple weeks, but if I asked you a question and I don't hear from you in a couple weeks, what are we doing? So that's, that's something. Then I, that means to me I'm not a priority for you, right? So, um, then where are your priorities, correct? 'Cause if you're trying to play volleyball, you would just tell me, hopefully. I think that's the bigger problem. You ready? Self-realization is one topic. But for me, like, if you're not interested, just tell, "Hey, Coach. Appreciate your time." Absolutely. "I'm really looking some..." And, it doesn't take anything. A, a text, a type, "Coach, thanks so much for your interest. I'm really looking. I have, I have a top five already." Yeah. You know, "If, if that doesn't work out, I'll reach back out." Like, it's okay. Like, we're, we're all in this business. Yeah. And we get it. Like, y- you're a good player. You should be getting recruited. We're a good school. Kids should want to come to us. Like, it's a, it's this interaction of back and forth. It's, doesn't make you a bad person, it just- No but what does give me questions is when you get ghosted, like, that, you can't just ghost people in the real life. Like- Yeah I can't just ghost my, uh, registrar if they ask me a question. I need to give a response. I can't just- But Coach, I don't know you. You just reached out to me out of the blue. And they think that's okay. Well, no, this is a person that could be a life changer for you. Here- This is a person you could have a relationship with. They could be a mentor for you. Right. I did reach out, but you couldn't give me the five seconds of respect to say, "Hey, Coach, I'm looking somewhere else"? And, and that's okay, because you don't know who I know. Yeah. You don't know that I might know one of those coaches that you really wanna go play for. That's right. And if I go tell them, "Hey, remember Sally? She, she kinda ghosted me. What's up with that?" And, and it happens to be one of my best friends, that she's gonna go to school there. Yeah. "Oh, that's weird." That gives a cause for pause, right? Like, huh. Well, here's- I don't know I'm d- I'm dealing with a lot of these kids every day. Sure. And I think a lot of it isn't, is, is a lack of integrity about, you know, I think it's okay not to respond to a head coach. It's a paralysis by analysis. Sure. They're afraid, they're afraid to say, "Coach, you know, I think I wanna be a lawyer, and, you know, you, you're a tech school." Instead of telling you that and saying, "Coach, here's my problem." Right. "Can you, can you help me with this?" Right. Because- And I, I'll, I'll respond with, "We actually do have pre-law here at Florida Tech." Yeah. It, it, but they, they may not think that way. Yeah. But instead of, and I tell kids this all the time, "Don't you wanna play for someone that's gonna be your coach, your mentor?" Mm-hmm. "Gonna be someone you can see as a, a mother or a father figure?" And they go, "Absolutely, that's what I want." Give them the opportunity to do that in the recruiting cycle. Right. Give Coach Willis a chance to help you through this problem that you have. You know? Yeah. I got a kid right now that's got these bad hamstrings Tell a coach about it. Say, "Coach, I'm, I'm, I'm not healthy right now, but I'm getting there. I don't wanna lose you, I don't want you to stop recruiting me, but I got a hamstring issue that I'm dealing with." Right "And I, you know, I, you know, I'm afraid, I'm a- I'm afraid to come to a workout in two weeks because-" Correct I can't give my best." Right? Right. "Well, hey, come to the workout. Let's, let's see. Um, we're not gonna overdo it, and if it's still bothering you, no big deal. It's okay." If they still want you- That's right they're gonna say, "It's okay." That's right. And if they don't, then that's not the spot for you. "Oh, you have bad hamstrings? Okay, sorry, you're out." Okay. Yeah, do you wanna play for that person? No. Right. Exactly. Like, and then how, how many, how many w- how many girls are in a transfer portal right now in volleyball? Something ridiculous, like- I think it was four- three, four- 1,400. It was, it was something crazy It, it's ridiculous, right? Yeah, yeah. B- not to mention any other sport, like basketball or football. Yeah. Like, God forbid how many pages are there, right? Yeah. How many decisions are made that were based on something bad or not smart? And that's why there's so many people in the portal for making not the best decision i- in, for, for their career as a whole. Now, some would argue, "Well, I'm making this so I make money, and blah, blah, blah, and I'm making the best decision for me right now." Fine. Well, let's say you just got paid 150 grand for the next four years, and now you don't have a degree. Great. So now what are you gonna do for that? Yeah, hopefully you saved it and didn't blow it, right? But how long is- 'Cause if you did- even if you didn't blow it, how long is it gonna last? Okay, yeah. So you had- 150 grand is nothing but you had 100, you had 600 grand in four years. That's great. If you're not gonna go get a full-time job after, what... I, that's not gonna sustain your family gener- that's not generational wealth. No. That's just not. Yeah. Right? So. Yeah. I'm with you. So. Don't, don't you think that as you become a great recruiter- Mm-hmm you're becoming a great poker player? 'Cause when you watch the great poker players- Yeah what do they do better than anybody else? They get those first two cards and they're like... Right And they toss them. Right. 'Cause they know there's a better hand coming, and they're not gonna waste any money betting on a hand they already know the odds aren't gonna lose. Or- Yeah, but, you know, the other side of that is, you know, one in the hand is worth two in the bush, right? Yeah. Yeah. So now what? 'Cause I've also seen plenty of coaches, oh, they're, throw that one away and there's gonna be another one down the road. Yeah. Until there's not another one. Until there's not another one. Now what? That's right. Now there's not another hand that's better, so now what? When, when is that time that you've gotta push all in on this seven deuce non-suite. That's right. You, you're 100, you're 100% correct. I can't, I can't argue with that. But my... I guess my point comes from you see a red flag that you're like, "I know that's gonna be a problem here." Mm-hmm. And you continue to talk to the kid, or you continue to go down the road 'cause they're 6'3" or they have a, they touch 10-4- Mm but you know they're selfish. You know that they don't work hard. Mm-hmm. And you keep going down that road with that kid, and you know- Yeah it's gonna bite you in the butt if you bring them in. Yeah. You know what's interesting, though, as you say that? I, I, that kid doesn't want me. Yeah. That kid, in the end, 'cause w- in our conversations we'll be, we'll be talking, and in the end she'll end up deciding she doesn't want me. Yeah. 'Cause- Because- 'cause your expectations are gonna be different than what she wants to put up with she's, she's those things. Yeah. She's selfish or whatever. Yeah. And so she realizes, unless she says, "I'm trying to be better. I know that about me and I want, I want to be better," now we're different. Now it's a different conversation 'cause we've had those kids. There's a, there's a different floor you're starting from now. Correct. Right. If you're willing to humble yourself and start to know who you are as a person, right? That's right. Now, now we can move in a different direction. But- If you're not, you won't want, you won't want my program. You just won't, because I, I- y- you'll be gone. You know? You'll surround- And you'll remove yourself because you're gonna continue to make bad decisions. That's right. And I can't save you at that point if you got bad grades or w- whatever, I just can't save you. Yeah. So. I, I'm just, I'm just always worried if I built a great culture, I'm always worried about bringing a cancer in that could hurt the c- you know, that's gonna spread. I'm, it's just- 1, 100%. But as you know, it, it, s- people say it only takes one. Yeah. But, mm, something that I, I'm thinking, uh, I've been thinking about a lot actually over the years is once you think you have it made, you don't. So you have to constantly evolve your culture, and you have to- Yeah want to bring people in who wanna make it better. That's right. So that's part of that process is, is, is all of that. And if this person isn't gonna make it better, then why are we gonna bring her in, right? Yeah. Great, she's talented, but i- if she's gonna be tearing the program apart- That's right oof, we're in trouble. Now, say said kid wants to come in. Hey guys, and you bring in the s- the leaders of the team. She wants to be better. She's, she, she's trying to become a better person. Right. Right? We need to help her. She's, there's gonna be transgressions. We need to help her, yeah. It, it ain't just gonna be on me. Like, we're gonna have to help her through this. Yeah. I, if you want, if you're on board, let's do it. And if you're not, then fine, I get it, right? So. Yeah. It's, it's- There, there's a lot that's loaded it's a lot, but it's great. It's great. And, and it's, I had Sue Enquist on, you know, the former softball coach at UC Davis. Yeah. And- Yeah Sue just, Sue gave me this analogy and I, and, and it was so fantastic. I was just like, I, I, I, I was dreaming about it for the next week. Mm-hmm. She goes, "Matt, your team has to be a team of babysitters." Oof. And the culture is the baby. It is every one of their responsibilities- That's a good one to be the babysitter of your team's culture. I was like, "Oh my God, Sue, that's so good. It's so smart." Mm-hmm. So- Especially for a team of girls, to look at it that way and say, "Okay, we've got a bad apple, or we've got somebody that's not buying in." Right. "It's our responsibility. We have to help her get there." Right, right, right. Right? So all of her stuff, Sue's stuff that she did with USA Volleyball- Yeah, yeah, yeah she'd given to us, and so I use a lot of that, um- Oh, that's so good in, in, in my culture development and stuff. Yeah. Right? 'Cause USA Volleyball, look at all those girls that were on that team that won gold. Uh, different personalities from- Absolutely different ages, different areas- Yeah of the country. And so they, during COVID, you know, like- Uh. Like, "Hey, how are they devel- how is this be- gonna become a thing?" So kind of cool. Um, you know- Very cool I, I've, I've had a conversa- a sidebar with her before about her stuff, and, uh, she's great. Yeah. I love her. I just love her. Mm. Coach, I love you too, man. I... Appreciate it. This is gonna go down, I've done 180 of these, this is gonna go down as one of my favorites. We're, we're gonna do this again. I'm gonna make you, whether you want to or not. Um- No, I'm looking forward to it this has been so much fun. Yeah, for me too. Uh, I hope, I hope you and I aren't the only ones that enjoy this. I hope the listeners are enjoying this too. I, I'm getting so en- absorbed, I'm forgetting that I'm a host of this thing. Yeah. I'm enjoying the talk so much. But let's, let's leave with one general piece of advice for kids that are about to go through the recruiting process or in it, moms and dads, high school coaches. What's something you want them to know? Yeah. You know, I think, um I, I think, I think this. I think this. I think, uh, as you go through and you're, uh, looking at your process, uh, there's a place for you. There is a place for you, and if you, you, you have talent, you're, you're here, you've, you've got to the point, you're on a club team, you're in high school, maybe you're in all-conference or even if you're not, there's still a place for you. Yes. The question is, do you want that place? Not everybody's gonna go to Nebraska or, you know, CSU Fort Collins or, you know, USC, Texas, Kentucky, Florida. Not everyone's going there. Yeah. Right? That it's very rare, but there is a place for you. Do you want that place? Do you wanna go to, um, some of my former schools, CSU Pueblo, uh, Otero Junior College? That's right. Uh, do you wanna go out to Davis Elkins in West Virginia? Do you wanna go to Florida and Florida Tech? Do you just wanna stay close to home? Those are your, those are for you to decide, right? That's for you to decide where your range of school is, wants to be. Now, once you limit yourself, you've limited yourself. It's not that people don't want you. It's- That's right it's what are you, what is your limitations? Because there is a school out there for you, guaranteed. I, I have always felt this way. There's a school for you. NAIA, junior college, and those aren't bad options. No. Do you still love playing the sport? And if you still love playing, then it doesn't matter that you didn't go to CU Boulder or the Air Force Academy or doesn't matter if you didn't go to Florida Tech, there's still a school for you as long as you wanna play. You have to be willing to go look for it and, and maybe have a bigger circle, uh, if you have that strong desire to continue to play. Well, I always use the analogy about buying a car. Sure. You know, you, you might, you might be smart enough to go to Stanford, but you might not have the $40,000 to afford it, you know? Yeah. But it, it's... But I always tell kids, w- but we talk about this from a grades perspective, it's how much money you have in your pocket. Mm-hmm. If you can only afford a $2,000 car, you're not going to the Mercedes dealership or the Lexus dealership. Right. That's right. Right. You know what I mean? Well, that's a whole nother level, so this is another thing I talk about. You know, some... What, where's your academic maturity? Right. What's your physical maturity? That's right. What's your emotional or psychological maturity? And what's your financial maturity, right? Like- That's right. all that's kind of a package, you know? Yeah. And if you're not getting one of those things from one of the s- from your school, what are you willing to give up, right? Like, what's- That's right it's all about. That's what's hard, that's what's hard for kids these days is giving that thing up. But, uh, if, if all you can afford is a used Honda, now w- it's what are you gonna do with it? Are you gonna keep it clean? Right. Are you gonna change the oil? Are you gonna make sure the tires are, are good? You know- Mm-hmm it's, it's what you do with that college when you go to it to make it special. You have to go, you have to have that desire to go build your own legacy there. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. You know? So- Absolutely. Coach, you are so awesome. Uh- Appreciate it. Thank you, coach gosh, you're good at this, and I'm so happy for you. I'm happy for Florida Tech. What a great marriage there. Um, whatever you need, call me anytime. If I can help you or the young women in your program, your assistants- Yeah you got me night and day, but I will be- Thank you cheering for you. You got a huge fan in me. Thank you. Same, same thing. Always, always, always welcome this opportunity. Appreciate you and, uh, all you're doing for our volleyball community. Thanks, coach. All right, man Coach Willis, thank you so much for your time, your authenticity, and your willingness to share your perspective with our audience. This was an outstanding two-part conversation, and I know our listeners will take a great deal away from it. As always, thank you for listening, subscribing, sharing the podcast, and supporting everything we're building here at Significant Coaching and Recruiting. While new guest interviews will be taking a short break for most of June and July, keep an eye out for several solo episodes throughout the summer as I tackle some of the biggest topics facing youth sports, coaching, leadership, parenting, and college recruiting. Then in August, we'll return with a new weekly podcast format and a new lineup of outstanding guests. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control, stay humble, and keep chasing significance