Episode #189: Ryan Brownlee on Recruiting

Are college baseball recruits chasing the right things? 

Ryan Brownlee, Assistant Executive Director of the American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA), returns for Part II of our conversation—and this one is all about recruiting. 

Ryan and I talk about how college baseball recruiting has changed, NIL, the transfer portal, realistic player evaluation, the role of parents and coaches, and why finding the right fit still matters. 

Ryan makes a great point: a recruit needs to find a school that works socially, academically and athletically. We also talk about why NIL money doesn't guarantee playing time, why college coaches are looking for reasons to cross players off their lists, and why recruits need honest people around them throughout this process. 

If you're a high school baseball player or the parent of one who wants to play in college, this is a conversation worth hearing. 

Episode 189 | The Significant Coaching Podcast with Matt Rogers 

Significant Recruiting Resources — Take the guesswork out of college recruiting with Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes, sport-specific Recruit’s Journals, and the Significant Recruiting Launchpad. Practical tools to help families research schools, stay organized, and build a smarter recruiting strategy. Learn more at CoachMattRogers.com.

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We're back, and I'm excited to share another fun and enlightening episode with Ryan Brownlee, Assistant Executive Director of the American Baseball Coaches Association and former Division I baseball coach. Today is part two, and we're talking college baseball recruiting. And here's the big question. Are recruits chasing the right things? NIL, Division I offers, social media announcements. But Ryan and I talk about what really matters, finding the right fit academically, socially, and athletically, and why the recruit has to be the one who owns this process. Ryan spent more than two decades coaching Division I baseball, including years as a recruiting coordinator and head coach. He brings a great perspective for players and parents navigating recruiting today. I'm Matt Rogers, and this is episode 189 of the Significant Coaching Podcast. Coach, let's talk about recruiting. It was a huge part of your life for decades. It's still a huge part of my life. You and I both coached at multiple levels, and we got to see kinda how the machine worked. And so much has changed now, especially over the last three, four years with how NIL's impacted. Now we have unlimited scholarships at the D1 level But we're, we're capping rosters. What are some of the things you're seeing that you really like about the changes that are happening in recruiting? 'Cause I feel like we talk so much about the things that stress coaches out. What are some of the things that you're liking about where this is headed with college recruiting? That's a tough one, 'cause I've been out of it for a little bit now. You know, 2019 was my last spring coaching, but And my dad was a longtime coach, so I probably saw my first high school game when I was five years old. Sure. Um, so I was a little bit of a throwback. Like, I liked being in the ballpark, I liked interacting with people at the ballpark, and that's completely changed since COVID. Um, I, I do f- still feel like there are coaches on the road getting after it. It's, it's not as many events now that, that coaches are going to, 'cause they can do a lot more online. Uh, symmetry has I, I think that's probably the benefit. You know, for, for the layperson who doesn't know what symmetry is, basically just about every college game gets filmed now. So when you're dealing with the transfer portal, it's not as big a deal to have to go to the ballpark to see kids now, which is saving coaches time. But I do feel, still feel like you're missing that, that piece of actually developing a relationship with someone in the recruiting process. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think that's where there's going to be a lot more mistakes made on kids, uh, if you're just looking off their stats and, and just looking off video and, and not really developing. But coaches don't have time for that now. Like, and that's the cool thing with college baseball coaches, is they've adjusted. Over the course of, of time, they've adjusted to whatever society has handed them or the game itself has handed them. Baseball coaches are really good about adjusting, so they're, they're continuing to adjust. So there'll be things that are different five years from now than, than going on right now. So it's the good ones are able to evolve over time. But I do feel like symmetry probably has helped more than- Yeah anything, because you don't have to go to a ballpark t- to watch. You can, you can get clips of kids. Yeah. You can look at their stats. Like, 6-4-3 Stats, like, you can figure out all those metrics that are important to your program and, and that is on the field, but you're still gonna miss what that person is like off the field. Like, that, that's the part that we're s- we're missing now. Uh, but there's a lot of good a lot of schools out there doing well in the, the portal. Um, but then there's schools that are missing, too. Like, that, that's the X... It's still the X factor, but that's always been that. That, and that will never change, is how a player, once they step on campus, is going to interact with that campus and how they interact on the field, and then how they interact when they're not on the field. Socially, academically, all that stuff still matters, and that will never go away. That's never going to, to go away. I- if a kid wants to have a good fit, they need to line all three of those up, socially, academically, and athletically. And if, if somebody lines all three of those up, and But we s- we miss that now, 'cause coaches don't have, especially if you're dealing in the portal a lot- Um, y- you don't have enough time to make those decisions on ki- 'cause it's a short window. It is. You're having to make decisions on, in a short window. Um, so- I- it has become a little bit more like professional baseball in that respect. Um, and, and then our part, you know, I, I think athletes should get paid, but I don't think anybody has prepared athletes for now being a professional athlete where everyone in that locker room, men and women, know how much money you're getting paid. That's right. And I talked to multiple coaches last spring that their highest paid players in their program did not make travel, did not travel at the end of the year. And so parents listening in, just because your kid's on NIL money, coaches are trying to win, that doesn't mean your kid's gonna get on the field. That's right. And you still have to go in and compete with the guys that are, with the, the guys or girls in that locker room with you. You still have to go out and compete on a daily basis in practice and in games, and the ones that do the best are b- gonna be the ones on the field regardless of how much money they're getting paid. Well, that's- Now, they may get more chances early in the year, but if they're not producing, coaches wanna win. That's, that's the thing I really struggle with, is so many of these kids are chasing a dollar amount- Good luck instead of chasing an experience- Yeah great coaching, opportunity. I mean, why, why are you in this? Why do you wanna go through this 12 months out of the year? Well, 'cause it's, it's misinformation. You love the game. Yeah, but we were all e- I, I don't fault kids. Like, it, I, you know, I'm 52. If I was in this generation of players, I don't know if I'd do any different than, than them. Like, this, these are the cards that they've been dealt. Um, and you know, it's easy for me, of somebody that went through it in the old way, to say, "Well, this isn't right. It's not..." I, I think athletes should get paid, but again, that, there needs to be more education of like what this actually looks like. Yeah. And not like... And I think all of us have been through that too. That's not just a athletics, college athletics things. I think if you chase anything for the wrong reasons, it's not going to turn out the way you want it to turn out. That's life. Yeah. That's not college athletics. That's life. If you chase things and, uh, get attached to things for the wrong reasons, it's not going to work out, and, and that's a tough lesson to learn, but we all have to learn that at some point. Like, that you can't chase the wrong things. It's, it's gonna bite you, and karma's an actual thing too. Um, like all that stuff matters in, in the whole scheme of things, and, and that's where you hopefully you have good people around you as a 18 to 23-year-old that can be honest with you and point you in the right direction. But that's not always the case, but that's never been the case either. Yeah. There's, there's always been bad actors out there. Yep. There always has been. It's always- Now with social media, with social media, we just see more of them. That's right. There's always been bad actors. There's alway- there's always been that in walks of life. We just see a lot more of it because of social media now. L- let's say your son is 16. He's, wants to do this, wants to go play college baseball. What, how are you advising him on what to look for For the health of his... Not just for next year or for his four years, but for the, for his life. The, the people that he wants around him and the education he wants to get, not just the degree, but the education, like the great quotes you've used and the experiences you've had and I have had with great coaches and how that's shaped our lives. What advice would you give to your son on just, like, what to, what to work on and what to be looking for? Yeah, I've had former, uh, teammates, um, former players that kids are going through the process, and so I'm like... They're like, "Hey, will you call him?" I'm like, "Yeah, but I'm not gonna talk to you about this. They're gonna call me." Yeah. And so when I sit down with, with kids that are... And high school kids that are still going through the process, it, it's not a lot different because it's still they have to be the active participant in this. It, it can't be mom, dad telling them. It can't be their coach. It can't be their high school coach, travel coach. They have to be the active participant in this process. So keeping a notebook, um, of schools that they're interested in, but more importantly, the schools that are actually contacting them. Yeah. That still matters more than anything else of is a coach invested in that athlete to actually pick up the phone, try to call them and get them on the phone? If they are not, if a school is not, not interested in you, then take them off the list. Um, because then if you want, if you really like the school, go play on their club team. Like, if that's your dream school and you really wanna go there and that program's not interested in you, then just go play on the club team and get a good education and you can, you can fill that void, but if you really wanna play college athletics, there'll be a spot out there for you somewhere, but that's where you have to be an active participant. And, and again, it goes back to does the school fit me academically? Does it fit me socially? And, and does... If sports and getting on the field is actually important, then I need to pick a, a place that I can, can get on the field at some point. Yeah. Because if you line all three of those things up, it's gonna be a really good situation regardless of where you end up, and that's where, you know, you, you try to tell this generation of kids, this is where the social comparison piece of social media is really hard on, on kids that are in high school. Just because Johnny Smith is going to LSU, that doesn't mean LSU's a good fit for you. Yeah. You know, we've changed the rules- Doesn't mean it's a good fit for John of when, when s- you know, the... One of the good things we did recently was change when kids could get contacted. Yeah. I, I think it's, it's better. I, I still think it should be later, but I think the later, the later coaches, college coaches decide on a kid and the later a kid decides where they're going to school, the better it's going to be. I think it's a better fit on the field because they're closer to when they're gonna enroll at school, and so developmentally they look closer to what they're gonna look like when they show up on your campus. Yeah. The earlier you try to make that decision, the further away they are from stepping on a campus- The more X factor there is, is if they're actually gonna be a fit for, for that program. So, because nobody knows what a 16-year-old's gonna look like when they're 18, 19, or 20. Nobody. And so much is gonna change- Look at the Little League World Series. There's- Yeah tho- those kids are tearing it up right now. Some of those kids may not play varsity baseball. Yeah Well, look at, look at you- What's there only been five maybe, four or five that ever played in the Little League World Series that have played in the big leagues? And they play in the Little League World Series for a long time. They do. They're I think Gary Sheffield might be one. Yeah. Shawn Burrows was another one. Yeah. I think there's maybe four or five, like it, that's it's not very many. Uh, J- uh, uh, Todd Frazier. Yeah. But even for me to just list off, like, the, the, the handful, like, there hasn't been very many, so just because you're good at 12 doesn't mean Uh, but the good thing is, like, even if you're just an okay player in high school, there's probably a program out there for you. Um, and, and don't look down on D1 is not the end-all be-all. I know a coach D1 for, for 22 years. It is not the end-all be-all. I looked at Division III schools coming out of high school- Yeah um, because of tuition remission. I, you know, my, 'cause my dad worked at Evansville, I got tuition free at, at about 300 schools, so my list was long in the beginning, but I didn't know if I was gonna be good enough to, to play Division I baseball, so I actually looked at Division III s- because academics was just as important as the on-field experience for me. Um, and that's Nobody in my family wanted me to go to Evansville. This is also why it's, it's, it's that the kids' process. Yeah. If I would've listened to my mom, dad, or my brother, I would've ended up at Portland, Bradley, or Vanderbilt. I wouldn't have ended up at Evansville, because nobody in my family wanted me to play for my dad and brother. Yeah. So, but that's why it worked, 'cause I was like, "F you all. I'm gonna go to Evansville 'cause it's the best fit for me, and- Right I'm gonna, I'm gonna prove y'all wrong." Um, but yeah, so a- again, it, they have to put in the work, and so, you know, any parents that are listening in, have your kids keep a notebook. Make sure they write questions for the coaches, that what's, what's important to them, not, not what they think coaches want them to ask. What is really important to that kid and what they actually want in a program, and that's a development plan. Is the weight room important academically? And then if you do take a campus visit, make sure it's with the academic department. So- I did our campus visits at Iowa, James Madison, Iowa, and Western Illinois. Even when I was a head coach, I did our campus visits, but I still had them meet with the academic people. Even though I showed those families and those players around campus, even did it as a head's coach, um, because that was up, kind of our niche at Western Illinois. We didn't have a lot, so I'm like, "I don't think any other head coaches are walking people around campus," so that was one of our niches. Plus, I got to develop more of a relationship with people. Yeah. But they still met with the academic people, too, and that, that was part of the reason I went to Evansville. I, even though I grew up around that program, I'd never really been outside the baseball field- And when I met with the academic people, they were my last visit. I didn't decide to go to Evansville till after I graduated from high school. So I had already graduated. I still had no idea what I was doing. Once I met with the academic people at Evansville, I was like, "That's the best fit for me." That's great. Of all those other schools, 'cause I've met with all the other academic people, I'm like, "This fits me better- Yeah than any other place." But I, we just don't get a lot of that now. But it's a huge decision, and people are taking it lightly. It, it, um But it's okay to make mistakes too. Like, I do feel like the transfer rule needs to be in there, but I do feel like it should be a one and then you gotta sit out a year. Yeah. It needs to go back to the old, the old way of, yeah, like you're not gonna get all of it right. And, and yes, you're competing with much older players than you now, and so you may not get on the field right away. So I, I do understand why kids are leaving the programs that they're at, but you should get a, a free one and then you should have to sit out after that. Well, I think it's important that the adults are making some decisions sometimes, and we, we have to think about what's best for the kids more than, you know- Their frontal lobe's not closed yet. Yeah. I... All of us made stupid mis- stupid- Yeah decisions. Uh, their, their prefrontal cortex isn't closed yet. They're going to make dumb mistakes. Yeah. Their brain's not devel- fully developed yet. So somebody has to be the adult in the room at times to, to help them through the process. And we have to be allowed to, to make hard decisions for them. You know, it's like- Yeah yeah, you get to transfer once, but then you're gonna have to sit because we want you to figure this out. We want you to fight through that, yeah, you're not starting, yeah, you're not getting the playing time. But that doesn't mean it's not gonna come. You gotta fight through your f- some, some disappointment or you're... what kind of adult you're gonna be. And you have to be honest with them as where they're at at, at that point in, in their baseball career or whatever sport. Like, "Hey, I know you wanna go to LSU. Has LSU called you? Hey, you hit 250 last year. You hit 250 last year." Yeah. "Hey, on the mound you walked three times as many people as you struck out." Yeah. Go look at the stats of the schools that you're interested in and see if your stats in high school actually compare to what those guys are putting up. And then you go do the math on physically what those kids look like. If I, I showed up at college 5'9", 145 pounds. Yeah. No Power Five school, I don't... Evansville probably wouldn't take me now. But luckily I put the work in. I was 185 by my junior year. Yeah. Like, the skill set was there, it was just developmentally. But that's where you have to be honest. The great thing about the internet is you can find informa- And that's where the academic piece, uh, whatever you're interested in, actually look and see if that school has it. Yeah. Like, if you wanna go into... Uh, everybody's got business, but there's some of those niche pro- Like architecture, good luck. Good luck finding a baseball program out there that has architecture. There's seven schools maybe. Most of them have dropped baseball on like- Yeah Iowa State, I think Colorado. Like, the good ones don't have baseball. Yeah. Yep. It, it's, it's so rare for some of those majors. Yeah. Um- And is it doable? I always throw Georgia Tech in there. We lost a kid, when I was at Iowa, we lost a kid to Georgia Tech who wanted to be an engineer. I said, "Hey, I want you to go to the roster and see if any of their players are engineers." It wasn't one. I'm like, "Hey, we've got a couple engineers here at Iowa." Yeah. Now, he ended up being a good draft, so he signed out of high school, but I'm like, "I, you, you're not gonna do it." Like, they've never had somebody get through the engineering program there. I'm like, "Dude, do the math. Like, look. It says... We can go through the roster right now." Like, I- There's, there's so many kids that- I know that's what they're telling you, but again, you can... The Internet's awesome. You can get all the information you want. Like, a- There, there's so many coaches that'll tell that And if you want to play as a, if you want to play as a freshman, look at the programs that actually play freshmen. Yeah. You know, 'cause there's numbers for that now, too. You know, I think they said on average, on average with the Power Five schools now, think the average is 15 innings for f- uh, it's, no, it's like th- I think it's three innings for freshmen now, and it's like 10 at bats for freshmen on the pitching and the hitting side. The whole year? The whole season? Yeah, it's the whole year. That's on average. Boy, that's a stat, isn't it? And the ones that play every day were guys that turned down first round money coming out of high school. Yeah. Like, that are going to be big leaguers. Yeah. Like, if you look at the guys in the SEC especially that play every day as freshmen, those are the guys that turned down a lot of money that are going to be future big leaguers, that if they're, if they're pitching a lot as a freshman and hitting a lot as a freshman, they're probably a future big leaguer. Pretty important advice for coming out of high school, understanding that, right? Is- Yeah year one, year one, just get your feet on the ground. Y- y- figure out where you're at and who you are, and what's, what do you got around you? What do you need to work on? Let year two be that year where you go, "All right, now I'm gonna get the stats, now I'm gonna get the innings. I've figured some things out." But that's not a guarantee either, 'cause usually- No, it's not usually the first, especially in baseball, usually the first two years somebody will have a good freshman year, and then they'll struggle as a sophomore, and then somebody maybe struggles as a freshman and they have a really good sophomore year. And, and part of it is if you play every day or pitch a lot as a freshman, the book is gonna be out on you, so you have to now make another adjustment. And, and I think that's hard for kids is, "Hey, this worked for me last year." Well, now everybody knows how to get you out, because you had, you had 150 at bats as a freshman, now everybody in the country knows how to get you out. Or, you know, you had 30 or 40 innings as a freshman on the mound, well, now everybody knows what your stuff is. Yeah. So there's a whole book on you, and coaches are really smart, and that's where synergy comes in. Like, there's a... So can you make that next adjustment as a hitter and a pitcher? Because teams, your opponents are gonna adjust to you too. It's like those rookies in the big leagues that get off to a hot start, and then by the All-Star break they're, they're hitting, they're back down in Triple-A. Yeah. Boy, it happens 90% of the time, doesn't it? 'Cause you gotta keep making adjustments. That's the hard part about baseball is you gotta keep, um, making adjustments. Coach, let's, let's give some advice to some f- to families that are going through this baseball journey. I'm always y- y- you talk about adjustments and how important adjustments are, and I, and, and I don't want to take that lightly, but what are some of those things you see from great players when they get on a campus at 18, some of their routines, the things that they're consistent with? Let's talk about what that looks like to really accomplish your goals that you have when you get to a college campus. Uh, for any high school parents out there, do, will, does your kid like to work on his own? Not because you're paying for the lessons. St- and, and that, that's a legitimate question to a, a high school parent, and, and I will say that forever. Does your kid like to go and work on their own at their craft? If they really enjoy it, they've got a chance, no matter what level they go to. If they really enjoy spending time on their own, if they're They'll go to a batting cage somewhere and hit on their own. If they will take a ball and throw it off the wall on their own because they really love doing it, they've got a chance. The ones that have to be told to go out and work, they will not make it. You're better off saving the money and just put that in a college fund somewhere, and then pay for the education on your own. Like, if, if you're having to prod your child into doing anything- Yeah it's not going to work. And I know you really want it as a parent. We all fa- have fallen into this trap as a parent that you want it more for your children, and that's where those are tough conversations to have. You really have to look at, like, who are you doing this for? Who are you providing this for? Are you doing this for a self-serving deal as a parent, or are you doing this because your child actually loves what they're doing? And then that's not just sports. That could be theater, music, the, uh, whatever they're into. Are you doing it because it's self-serving as a parent, or are you doing it because your child actually loves to do it? Because if they don't really love to do those small things, it will never It, it won't work. Unless they're just, like, so talented, but there's not There's, like There's no, hardly any kids like that, that are so talented that they can overcome not loving it. They're just really good at it. Although I was in the I, I coached in the Cape and played in the Cape. I was up there about three years ago, and I hadn't been in 20 years, but I was going to watch Brewster play, and I thought they were taking BP. Well, there was this guy with long hair on the mound throwing, and I get down there, and I'm like, "Oh, it's Trevor Bauer." You know, he'd just gotten out, like, he's basically blackballed from baseball. But he, he did a great job with their guys. He talked to them for a long time. But he told those guys, he goes, "I hate baseball. I'm just really good at pitching." He goes, "I wanted to quit in the minor leagues." He goes, "I hated it so much in the minors, I was gonna quit." He goes, "It wasn't like college baseball." He goes, "I hated it." He goes, "But I'm really good at pitching, so that's why I do it." He goes, "Not 'cause I love it." Now, he's an outlier. Yeah. Now, he loves the training part. Like, he can, he can tell you he doesn't like to he doesn't like it that much. That guy puts in more work than anybody else. Yeah. And that's the different... And I give him a lot of credit that he maybe doesn't love it, but he's still working at it. Like, that guy's worked at it more than anything. Um, if they do that, if they're good teammates, um, and they have good time management skills. Uh, you can develop good time management skills. That was something we had to spend a lot of time with all of our guys when they showed up on campus. You can develop good time management skills. Uh, it's just much easier on the ones that show up on a college campus that have some sort of semblance of time management skills. Can they write a s- their weekly schedule? Can they check off all the things they need to do on a daily basis? Uh, because their relationship with their coach is going to be much better if a coach doesn't have to babysit them. Coaches are not there to babysit your kids, and that's another thing that high school parents need to hear. H- college coaches are not there to babysit your children. Yeah. Uh, they're there to be adults, learn how to be adults. Yes, coaches can, can, can help in that process, but if you're sending your child off to a college coach because you think they're gonna fix them and they need fixing, it doesn't work, okay? So the self-mastery part, the ones that I've coached that made it to the big leagues, they had the self-mastery part. They were willing to work on their own. They were phenomenal teammates to a person. The ones that were not good teammates did not make it And then do they have some time management skills? Although- Those would be my three things to relay to a high school parent such good advice, and it's, it, it's really the key. It, it's, it's not about getting there. If you got talent, you can get there, but it's- I enjoyed the, I enjoyed the 6:00 AM workouts. Yeah. It wasn't a chore. The, the ones that were great at it, the ones that I coached, if it was 6:00 AM, they were there with bells on, and they were juiced to be there. They were excited to be there, 'cause they were, they were excited to be there. And you can tell who's got good energy, and you can't fake energy. Like, yes, you may have to get yourself going, but they were excited to be there. If they were just hitting off the tee in the cage, they were excited to be there. And, and that's the difference between the excellent ones, the ones that excel, is because they will take something that an average person thinks is mundane, and they will make it great. Yeah. And they will turn it into a fun thing, and their energy is so good, and that's the difference between successful and unsuccessful people is, is just their perspective on things. Yeah. Th- that's what made... The only reason I was a decent athlete, 'cause I love the pain. I, I love the work. I love the, the overcoming of it, and the resilience, and showing up ready to go longer than everybody else. Yeah, get- I don't, can we get rid of the word grind? It's not a grind. It's not. It's not a grind. If you wanna be good at something, it's not a grind. Get rid of the word grind, it's a terrible word, it's awful. Yeah. Reframe it. It's an opportunity, it's, it's excitement. Yeah. It's like you get to do it. Like, have some energy and some excitement, and you'll be amazed at how much better you get through it- Yeah is if you actually have some excitement. Get rid of the grind. Get rid of the word grind, people. Get rid of it. It's not a grind. Let's finish with some advice to high school travel coaches when it comes to this recruiting journey. What should they be talking to kids about? What should their focus be in helping those kids get to the next level? Should they be playing a role in that? Yes. What's your thoughts on all that? But I will tell a good story. I played for a really hard high school coach who said that in the, uh, other one, Coach Merkel. Yeah. We're in the middle of an unbelievable season. We went 36 and two that year, won the state championship at single class in Indiana. We were at, like, I think we're, like, 18 and 0 at this point. He goes, r- after one of our games, he goes, "Ryan", he goes, he goes, "I wanna talk to you after, after the game." And so it's just me and Coach Merkel sitting, and my junior year was rough, but my senior year was great. But so he goes, uh, he goes, "Sit down." He goes, "Hey, I'm just gonna tell you right now," he goes, "some days you're a Division One baseball player," he goes, "but some days you can't play for our team." He goes, "You need to be more consistent with your approach to everything," and he was right. He goes, "You have to get more consistent. If you wanna be good at the next level, you have to be more consistent." And I don't think we have enough of that now, because I think people are, are afraid to... Uh, uh, again, it's tough love. Tough love is a good thing Telling people the truth and being honest with them is a good thing because we have Again, kids have a false sense of where they should end up because nobody's been honest with them of where they're at in their skill level, maturity level. All those things matter, and, and that's where you have to be honest with kids at times. Like, your maturity level's not good enough to play at this level. You don't handle your stuff. Like, you're late for practice for us. Like, I- you forget your uniform sometimes for us. You forget your equipment. Mom and dad are carrying your stuff and making sure that they do ev- mom and dad are not gonna live in the dorms with you. Like, and that's where we have to have some adult conversations with kids if you want them to be successful at the next level, because the kids that no one's ever talked to them or have never had any expectations put on them, they are gonna get buried at a four-year school or a junior coll- they're gonna get buried. They will get buried. They're gonna get buried wherever they go. So we need to have honest adult conversations with kids as far as this is what it actually looks like, and these are the expectations. And it's okay for high school coach to tell a kid that, "Hey, I've had these guys go to this level of college out of high school and it worked for them. You're not one of those players. This is the fit where somebody that your skill level, your maturity level, they went to this level and had success." And same thing with travel coaches. We've all had players that go on to the next level, just like when I would have conversations with our college players about the players that I had coached that went to the next level or to the big leagues. You think you're a big leaguer or a minor leaguer. You don't do the things that a minor leaguer or a big leaguer does. You just don't. And, uh, that's nothing against you, but you say you want to be that player. You're not doing those things on a daily basis that those players did, and I'm just going off my experience of what they looked like and the ones that were successful. Yep. But every high school coach and travel coach has sent somebody to college somewhere. Yep. And they've had success or they haven't had success, and that's what a, a high school coach or travel coach can relay back to a parent and a player is like- Your list of schools, I've had players go to those types of schools. These are things they do really well, and you don't have to bury kids, but these are things that they do well that kinda match up, but these are all the other things that don't match up. 'Cause by the way, as a college recruiter or a pro scout, they're trying to find reasons not to draft you or sign you. That's right. They're checking things off. They are ch- it makes their job much easier. Nope, they can't do that, they can't do that, they can't do that. Okay, I don't have to make a decision on them. They're out. That's right. And that's especially on the pro side. They're not, they're, n- there's not very many rounds. Uh, just like in Division I, there's not very many roster spots. They're looking for reasons to not recruit you or to not draft you. It makes- That makes their job easier makes their job much easier. I don't have to recruit that person. I don't have to draft that person. I love what you s- I'm going to the next person. I love what you said earlier, the, the coach's job is not to take care of your kid, not to babysit your kid. No, no, no, no, no. But- That should not be the expectation. But on the other side of it, as parents, we, we need to accept the fact that we have coaches, if we let them coach our kids, let them- Yeah be hard on them, let them challenge them, and stay out of the way and let- Unless you want them to live at home with you when they're 35 years old. It's right. Like, uh, and that, and that's the thing as a parent, and then maybe some parents want that. Like, I love my two kids. I love my 23-year-old and my, my 21-year-old. I love them to death, but I raised them to be flourishing adults and good human beings out in society, regardless. That... And they are that. Both of my kids are that. They are good human beings, and they are great out in society, and they care about people. Yep. I feel like I did my job as a, as a, as a parent- Yeah because I've c- I've raised, and my wife's done a phenomenal job. I've raised two good human beings that are gonna positively affect society in, in the way that they will. I felt like I did my job as a parent. Yeah. The rest of it's gray area. It's, it's really- And a- and as a parent, you should want your kids to thrive, and that means getting pushed to be the best version of themselves because as parents, we have a hard time doing that. That's a really tough... I think the older generation, the Boomers, were good at that, but it was more of a community back then with parents, coaches, and teachers together to raise a ch- a child. The society has frowned upon that, so we just don't see it as much anymore with the parents, coaches, and teachers working together to raise a good human being that's going to be successful when they leave high school, college. We've lost that in society. We need to tr- I don't think we'll ever... I hope we get it back. We've lost it. It needs to be a whole community raising someone to be a positive influence on the community as a whole. That's just my thoughts. And it can't be holding hands- That's my thoughts and singing Kumbaya. I mean, it just- Good luck. Co- uh, nothing good's ever come out of comfort. Nothing. Nothing good has ever come out of comfort If you wanna stay comfortable, you will not excel in anything. Yeah. Again, you will be average and you'll get pulled down if you, if you're really just seeking comfort and that, that... The narrative of find your passion drives me nuts too. We've, we've sold kids on a bill of goods of that's BS. You're not going to find your passion unless you have a lot of trial and error and make a lot of mistakes and do a lot of different jobs and try a lot of different things, and then you might find your passion. But passion doesn't come with being comfortable. You're not gonna find your passion being comfortable. Agree. Any great thing that's ever happened is because of conflict and conflict resolution and trying to push through hard things Coach, I'm so happy that you're in the role you are, and- Appreciate it 'cause your, your voice is so important to our game, but to parenting, to coaching, to raising kids, and your, your, the depth of your experience. So thank you so much for doing this. I've enjoyed talking to you on the phone, but really love that I got to know you and got to hear your heart. And tell everybody where, where they can learn about the ABCA a little bit and why it's so important to the game as we close this out. Yeah. If you just go to abca.org, uh, we're now the largest, uh, coaching organization in the world, so we- we've now beat soccer, so we'll have probably- Awesome 16,000 members this year. But anybody can be a member. Uh, it's 75 bucks. We're actually the, one of the cheapest, too, so convention's only 90 bucks. Um, but I've been a member for a long time. My dad was a longtime member. I think I'm pushing 30 years. I've been a member for thir- for 30 years now. I would not be in the position I'm in right now if I was not an ABCA member, uh, many, many moons ago, uh, because you... it's, uh, you will find your people with us. You'll find your tribe. Uh, it's a great community. The community of baseball coaches is phenomenal, all willing to give back. Um, you talked about Tony Vitello. Tony Vitello would give back. If somebody reached out to Tony Vitello, he will give back to them. Tim Corbin, you know, the best of the best, and that's been kind of a tribal thing with our organization. I think we miss some of that, too. There's still this tribe of mentor, there's tribe of mentor, you know, in our organization still, where the old- Yeah guard is still trying to help the new guard to make it good or better. Yeah. Um, the cool thing is we have pro coaches on down to moms and dads that are trying to coach for the first time that are all trying to help push the baseball community- Yeah forward, so. Yeah. Um, but if y- if you're a baseball fan, you've never been to our convention, it's in Chicago this year. Uh, it's like nothing you will have ever seen. Yeah. So. Yeah. Go to the World Series in Omaha, you know, all the- Yeah all those things that you guys play such a big role in, and you've- I feel like my job's a one of one. I've said that. Like, I, I'm grateful every day that I wake up and my feet hit the floor, the job that I'm in, because I f- do feel like it's a one of one- Yeah job because you feel like you're involved with every level of baseball. It's- Yeah very gratifying. Um, and I, I don't ever take that for granted that I feel like it's a one of j- one job in the baseball industry. Yeah. And I'll encourage everybody to, to follow your podcast 'cause your podcast- Yeah, it's the ABCA Podcast capacity. Yeah. Uh, I'm on social. I'm on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter. It's, uh, @coachb_abca Like I said, I don't post a lot, but what I do post, uh, is from the heart, and it will be very authentic. It's authentic and it's honest. Yeah. Well, the, the, the great thing is you have conversations with the best coaches in the country. Yeah. You ask really hard questions. It's vetted. It's vetted information. You have great conversations, so check that out if... And parents shou- you should be listening to coaches. You should be listening the reality, 'cause sometimes what you're hearing isn't true- Yes and the coaches are always gonna tell you the truth. It's inexpensive experience. It is. We talk about that a lot. Y- uh, learn, learn from others' mistakes so you don't have to go through it. You'll get a lot of good inexpensive experience. Yeah. Ryan, great talking to you. Matt, thank you. Look forward to our future conversations. Appreciate it. Yep. Thank you, sir. Another great conversation with Ryan Brownlee. I love his perspective on recruiting because he's been on the other side of it for a long time, and so much of what we talked about comes back to something pretty simple: find the right fit, own your recruiting process, and make decisions based on what's best for you, not what looks best to everyone else. A big thank you to Ryan for coming back for part two and for everything he and the ABCA continue to do for coaches and the game of baseball. Until next time, control what you can control, stay humble, and keep chasing significance